'The Greater Good' (207) General Discussion

[carmencatalina]

If they ran a red light, they are to blame. No amount of emergency justifies that type of stupidity.

When you get behind the wheel of a car, YOU are responsible for your driving.

Simeon is responsible for his murder, no one else. We can assign some blame if a guard was negligent (no evidence of that yet), but only he is to blame.

[Misfits]

I think Young is more likely to blame as he did not have Simeon in some sort of confinement.

Simeon was behaving, and Young wanted to make every effort to abide by the deal Stargate Command made with LA prisoners.

Simeon only had to go through 1 guard that was shadowing him. The guard shadowing Ginn was dismissed while Perry was stoned into Ginn, no reason to have a guard shadow Perry.

[Jumper_One]

Michael writes: “3) Who came up with the backseat driving scene with Dr. Perry, Volker, Eli, and Brody in the bridge? It was a rare hilarious scene.”

Answer: The writer of the episode, Carl Binder.

“4) After seeing that abandoned and battler worn Ursini ship, is it safe to assume they and the Blueberry aliens aren’t the best of friends?”

Answer: That remains to be seen. The Ursini may have bigger fish to fry.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...ching-mailbag/

[nx01a]

Indeed, I don't understand why is not confined. If something happens to Ginn, a character that was growing into a favorite. I will not so much blame Simeon, but more so Young for not keeping him confined.

...Again, Rush's scheme ended up costing somebody's life.

Simeon, Rush and Young are responsible.

Ursini, eh, Jumper? Hmm. And I was enjoying calling them browns.

[Misfits]

If they ran a red light, they are to blame. No amount of emergency justifies that type of stupidity.

When you get behind the wheel of a car, YOU are responsible for your driving.

Simeon is responsible for his murder, no one else. We can assign some blame if a guard was negligent (no evidence of that yet), but only he is to blame.

Ok. Let's say your girlfriend/fiance/wife called you and said there is a criminal in the house, and very soon, he'll break down the door and get to you. And, he might rape you and/or kill you.
You're going to tell me that you would obey road rules in such an emergency?
I don't know of anyone who would.

Simeon is responsible for the murder, of course, however, Perry being in Ginn's body is Rush's responsibility.
And Perry being in Ginn's body gave Simeon intelligence that he would not have known otherwise, namely that Ginn was on Earth, Stargate Command
Perry being in Ginn's body removed the guard shadowing Ginn.
Perry being in Ginn's body also liberated Ginn from being sequestered in the communication room for the duration of the process.

[morbosfist]

Ok. Let's say your girlfriend/fiance/wife called you and said there is a criminal in the house, and very soon, he'll break down the door and get to you. And, he might rape you and/or kill you.
You're going to tell me that you would obey road rules in such an emergency?
I don't know of anyone who would.

Exactly what does that have to do with this situation? Perry was called in to assist with moving the ship. It is not of any risk to her safety to perform this task as far as she or anyone else knows.

Simeon is responsible for the murder, of course, however, Perry being in Ginn's body is Rush's responsibility.
And Perry being in Ginn's body gave Simeon intelligence that he would not have known otherwise, namely that Ginn was on Earth, Stargate Command
Perry being in Ginn's body removed the guard shadowing Ginn.
Perry being in Ginn's body also liberated Ginn from being sequestered in the communication room for the duration of the process.

Telford is able to wander the ship freely while swapped. People are not sequestered. Wherever they stay, they stay of their own volition. No matter who swapped with Ginn, she would not be guarded. No matter the circumstances, she would be there long enough that Simeon would find out what was happening. Regardless of where she was staying, Simeon would take the first chance to kill her. None of this is under Rush's control nor Rush's fault. What Rush did was have the stones be used slightly ahead of schedule, nothing more.

[Misfits]

Exactly what does that have to do with this situation? Perry was called in to assist with moving the ship. It is not of any risk to her safety to perform this task as far as she or anyone else knows.

Understandably so. Rush was in no way cognizant that Perry's life would be in peril, or any reason to believe there would be any jeopardy.
But, those pesky unintended consequences, they bite big time.
Perry didn't realize that mentioning the fact that Ginn was on Earth was something she shouldn't have revealed to Simeon, heck, she didn't even know who Simeon is.
But she did reveal this fact, and to the one person she shouldn't have.
Nobody realized that removing the guard shadowing Perry/Ginn would be of any consequence.
Nobody realized that not sequestering Perry/Ginn in the communication room would give Simeon the opportunity to kill Perry/Ginn.

Telford is able to wander the ship freely while swapped. People are not sequestered. Wherever they stay, they stay of their own volition. No matter who swapped with Ginn, she would not be guarded. No matter the circumstances, she would be there long enough that Simeon would find out what was happening. Regardless of where she was staying, Simeon would take the first chance to kill her. None of this is under Rush's control nor Rush's fault. What Rush did was have the stones be used slightly ahead of schedule, nothing more.

Not always. Remember in 'Life' Telford was stuck in the communication room when he swapped with Scott.
As well as Young, in the same episode, was seen laying down on a soda when the connection is broken as per Telford's order.
And in 'Trial And Error', Young is seen actually on the table when he comes back from Earth with news that Emily wants a divorce.
Based on everything we have seen so far, unless Earth people stoning to Destiny have a specific function, they stay in the communication room.

What Rush did was to have Dr. Perry come to Destiny when there was no need for her. Her expertise was not a requirement.

[morbosfist]

Understandably so. Rush was in no way cognizant that Perry's life would be in peril, or any reason to believe there would be any jeopardy.
But, those pesky unintended consequences, they bite big time.
Perry didn't realize that mentioning the fact that Ginn was on Earth was something she shouldn't have revealed to Simeon, heck, she didn't even know who Simeon is.
But she did reveal this fact, and to the one person she shouldn't have.
Nobody realized that removing the guard shadowing Perry/Ginn would be of any consequence.
Nobody realized that not sequestering Perry/Ginn in the communication room would give Simeon the opportunity to kill Perry/Ginn.

Yet you blame Rush for not being aware of circumstances he could not be aware of?

Not always. Remember in 'Life' Telford was stuck in the communication room when he swapped with Scott.
As well as Young, in the same episode, was seen laying down on a soda when the connection is broken as per Telford's order.
And in 'Trial And Error', Young is seen actually on the table when he comes back from Earth with news that Emily wants a divorce.
Based on everything we have seen so far, unless Earth people stoning to Destiny have a specific function, they stay in the communication room.

Telford asked to see Young. He wasn't forced to stay. The guy sitting on the couch shows no signs of being kept there. He likely treated it as a job and sat around as he had been doing all day before that. Same with "Trial and Error". There is no evidence of them being kept in place, only the fact that they stay there.

What Rush did was to have Dr. Perry come to Destiny when there was no need for her. Her expertise was not a requirement.

Her expertise is irrelevant, as is the fact that she and not someone else came. What important is that Ginn left, which Simeon would have learned one way or another. Regardless, this goes back to the first point. By your own admission, these are circumstances beyond the knowledge or control of Rush or anyone else, yet you claim he should be blamed. He's obviously not at fault, because the people who were supposed to be guarding Simeon obviously couldn't do their jobs.

[Misfits]

Yet you blame Rush for not being aware of circumstances he could not be aware of?

I never said Rush knowingly did this.
What I said was Rush' scheming got Perry killed.
It is a fact that Rush schemed, again, and Perry stoned to Destiny in Ginn's body.
Otherwise, Perry would not have been on Destiny.

Telford asked to see Young. He wasn't forced to stay. The guy sitting on the couch shows no signs of being kept there. He likely treated it as a job and sat around as he had been doing all day before that. Same with "Trial and Error". There is no evidence of them being kept in place, only the fact that they stay there.

In 'Life', when Wray and Scott return from Earth, they're both seen leaving the same room. As of yet, I have not seen anyone from Earth wander around in Destiny on their own. All the Earth people that have stoned to Destiny that have been seen outside of the communication room, so far, seems to have a purpose. Otherwise they stay in the stone room. If the same protocol is applied here, as in, it was not Dr. Perry at the request of Dr. Rush, then most likely, Ginn would have stayed in the communication room, beyond the visibility of Simeon's eyes.

Her expertise is irrelevant, as is the fact that she and not someone else came. What important is that Ginn left, which Simeon would have learned one way or another. Regardless, this goes back to the first point. By your own admission, these are circumstances beyond the knowledge or control of Rush or anyone else, yet you claim he should be blamed. He's obviously not at fault, because the people who were supposed to be guarding Simeon obviously couldn't do their jobs.

What is relevant is that if Dr. Perry didn't come to Destiny, she would have not died. And the only reason why Dr. Perry did was at the request of Dr. Rush, because Rush said her expertise in Ancient drive technology was a necessity.

[nx01a]

Anyone else think this episode was a really good showing for Eli? He got to show off his Math Boy skills by figuring out Rush's instructions to Dr. Perry, and by calculating how to get Rush and Young back aboard. He also got some. Props to David Blue for showing Eli happy, enraged, cogitating and, for a brief second, smirking to himself about what a great day he's having. Well... Until the end.

[morbosfist]

I never said Rush knowingly did this.
What I said was Rush' scheming got Perry killed.
It is a fact that Rush schemed, again, and Perry stoned to Destiny in Ginn's body.
Otherwise, Perry would not have been on Destiny.

No, but someone else would have, and they would be dead instead of Perry. As brought up in the previous example, if you invited someone to dinner, and that person was killed by a drunk driver either coming to or going from your house, are you at fault?

In 'Life', when Wray and Scott return from Earth, they're both seen leaving the same room. As of yet, I have not seen anyone from Earth wander around in Destiny on their own. All the Earth people that have stoned to Destiny that have been seen outside of the communication room, so far, seems to have a purpose. Otherwise they stay in the stone room. If the same protocol is applied here, as in, it was not Dr. Perry at the request of Dr. Rush, then most likely, Ginn would have stayed in the communication room, beyond the visibility of Simeon's eyes.

Telford does in "Subversion", and for other no reason than to wander while he waits. You've conceived this idea that people are forced to stay in one spot, when there is no evidence that they are. If they do it willingly, then there is equal chance that said person might decide to go use the bathroom and run into the same problem.

What is relevant is that if Dr. Perry didn't come to Destiny, she would have not died. And the only reason why Dr. Perry did was at the request of Dr. Rush, because Rush said her expertise in Ancient drive technology was a necessity.

Then why not blame Wray? Had Wray not decided to concurrently have Ginn be debriefed when Perry came aboard, then Simeon would focus on Ginn. With Ginn guarded, he would consequently be unable to kill her, hence this entire situation is in fact Wray's fault.

Anyone else think this episode was a really good showing for Eli? He got to show off his Math Boy skills by figuring out Rush's instructions to Dr. Perry, and by calculating how to get Rush and Young back aboard. He also got some. Props to David Blue for showing Eli happy, enraged, cogitating and, for a brief second, smirking to himself about what a great day he's having. Well... Until the end.

Yes indeed. Math Boy got to shine.

[garhkal]

Yes, yes, and more yes. Talk about epic. Rush's secret is exposed, Simeon is making plans, the bridge is being run by everyone. Lots of fun to be had.

As i mentioned elsewhere, the only 2 things that would have made this ep outfrikken standing were
1) mentioning telford, even if in passing.
2) mentioning more on that ship.. were the browns there cause they hitched a ride or was it one of their ships..

best ep of SGU thus far.

i loved eli's reaction to the bridge i couldn't believe him of all people freaked out.

It was realistic though. BUT i am surprised we didn't hear a
"go figure" or something like that from brody.

I don't know how he escaped at the end but Simeon has always had a guard with him before.

All i can think is he killed (koed) the guard.

I wonder if this will pretty much have the crew end up putting the rest of The Lucian Alliance on the next liveable planet ? No one would want to work with any of them or trust them after this

I can see them pushing that (especially Eli and Rush), but since Simeone is the only one being that messed up (varro and ginn are both working with us), i can see them getting overrruled..

I suspect Simeon's guard is dead. If he planned to commit murder, he gains nothing by incapacitating the guard. He's still going to be the #1 suspect even if no one sees him by virtue of the guard being knocked out while a murder was taking place.

From what we know of his motives anyway, he seems like he was only trying to survive but he'd rather subvert Earth. If he feels no one in the LA camp now feels that way, he's probably trying to go out in a blaze of LA glory.

I can see some giving him the benefit of the doubt if it was just they died while he was around. BUT if his guard is also dead i can see any form of doubt going up in smoke. As to his reasoning.. he feels the others are betraying the LA. I know some people who irl would get that way over their org... so it is not far fetched he would be the same way.

And that is what I love about this episode and SGU. It was kept in how you expected them to act. Its not surprising Young went nuts like that. If someone had hold that above my head I would be quite mad as well. As for the mission that seems so epic. Intelligent life at the beginning of the Big Bang is something quite jaw dropping. I hope we get more insight into that but given the impeding cancellation I won't hold my breath.

I am not sure, but i could swear i saw young grinning eagerly when he was sent off ' to inspect' the rest of the ship, as it gave rush the 'rope' he needed to bury himself by using that time to get perry to the bridge. Young did seem to hang around, listening in... One makes me wonder if he had sussed it out by then.\

I hope Eli made a lot of friends tonight among the military.

For what? Revealing the bridge?

was anyone else expecting eli to say make it so when sitting in the captain's seat on the bridge?

That would have made the end scene a bit more funny, but hopefully he has grown up beyond needing to make those quips.

Spoiler:

The reason I think they will both be lost is because of what happened when Rush and Telford were swapped, Telford was 'killed' (then resuscitated), and from what we know Rush was dying too in Telfords body... apparently (whats her face) 'made sure' he wasn't faking by doing something to his hands.

That is true, but in Avalon when Vala was burned and died first, (daniel watching) we do see her body back on earth flatline.

as for the ep, i'm sure it was for drama but did anyone else feel like eli was being sketchy when setting up young's jump? i'm sure i'm wrong but to add to it young was off on his jump?

I was honestly surprised he didn't fuddle up rush's numbers so HE was the one who went bouncing off, and have young go first... Especially with the way he seemed peeved at rush for hiding the bridge for so long.

No, it wasn't Ancient. It belonged to those aliens on the seed ship. The aliens on the seed ship weren't supposed to be there.

Or was it?? Could ithave been like the seeder ship. one that the browns inhabited.

[QUOTE=Zatnikitelman;12058176]Very good episode though I'm a bit unsure about the mission. So we're trying to find God now?
I loved all the character moments of this episode, from Rush to humbling Young, /QUOTE]

I am not sure if i would class what Rush did to young, as humbling him. BUT like with Scott last ep, saying what he NEEDED to hear to get his head in the game.

One thing I love this about this episode is that it all ties right back to season 1 of SG-1. The Torment of Tantalus... in the words of Daniel Jackson. This is meaning of life stuff!

Ohh good call back. And like the ToT, this is one mission they might have to go all the way (like ernist did and daniel was willing to do) but would not be able to tell anyone about.

Here's a question no-body has asked yet (at least I don't think so!) who attacked the alien ship and why? Was it the blue aliens or somebody else?

I love exploring derelict, abandoned ships though when it's done well and lit well as it gives an awesomely creepy atmosphere. Anybody play Dead Space? Reminded me a bit of that.

I am leaning to someone else. Spoilers show we are

Spoiler:

going to be meeting 2 new aliens in a few eps and get inbetween a big space battle

so who knows maybe this was a ship that fled that, but was too damaged.

#2. In addition, Eli is suspicious now!? Why the hell didn't he tail Rush with a Kino before? Instead, he's gets a convenient brainstorm.

With the reveal of his 'special tunnel' i think eli's suspicions were diverted.

Guns, smaller power cells, data storage...

Alien pizza making machine.

Agreed. Young obviously had his suspicions. He should have cornered Rush on the issue.

If you watch, he tried, right as rush came into the room. Rush told him to drop it, he is there now. And surprisingly to me, young did just that.

Well.. Long post. I will pick up with the remainder of page 6 later.

[morbosfist]

I am not sure, but i could swear i saw young grinning eagerly when he was sent off ' to inspect' the rest of the ship, as it gave rush the 'rope' he needed to bury himself by using that time to get perry to the bridge. Young did seem to hang around, listening in... One makes me wonder if he had sussed it out by then.

He knew something was up, he just needed Rush to cop to it.

For what? Revealing the bridge?

Or saving the lives of the commanding officer and most valuable scientist all by himself, in addition to finding the bridge.

Or was it?? Could ithave been like the seeder ship. one that the browns inhabited.

The corridors are lower than human size. It's very unlikely they'd just happen to run into a ship which fits them.

If you watch, he tried, right as rush came into the room. Rush told him to drop it, he is there now. And surprisingly to me, young did just that.

It isn't cornering if you back down.

[Misfits]

Anyone else think this episode was a really good showing for Eli? He got to show off his Math Boy skills by figuring out Rush's instructions to Dr. Perry, and by calculating how to get Rush and Young back aboard. He also got some. Props to David Blue for showing Eli happy, enraged, cogitating and, for a brief second, smirking to himself about what a great day he's having. Well... Until the end.

Actually, Eli got a big dose of reality at the end. After Scott patted him on the back, after Rush rescued Young, you could see that he realized that he made a mistake. That he is human and not perfect.
And yes, I agree that David Blue did a great job of acting.
I just want to know one thing, why hasn't Eli lost a lot, LOT of weight?

[Misfits]

No, but someone else would have, and they would be dead instead of Perry. As brought up in the previous example, if you invited someone to dinner, and that person was killed by a drunk driver either coming to or going from your house, are you at fault?

The analogy was faulty. There was no deceit in inviting a person to dinner.
Rush lied and schemed to get Dr. Perry to Destiny.
I never said someone else might or might not have died.
I only said that Rush's scheme got Dr. Perry killed.

Telford does in "Subversion", and for other no reason than to wander while he waits. You've conceived this idea that people are forced to stay in one spot, when there is no evidence that they are. If they do it willingly, then there is equal chance that said person might decide to go use the bathroom and run into the same problem.

Obviously, people have to go to the restroom, eat, etc...
However, of all the instances that has been shown so far, unless a person has a specific reason to be on Destiny, they don't wander around. Is there positive proof that they are confined to the stone room? No. However, it's the only thing that have been shown so far and seems to be the most reasonable protocol.

Then why not blame Wray? Had Wray not decided to concurrently have Ginn be debriefed when Perry came aboard, then Simeon would focus on Ginn. With Ginn guarded, he would consequently be unable to kill her, hence this entire situation is in fact Wray's fault.

You could blame a whole bunch of people.
Varro could be blamed,
Young could be blamed,
Greer could be blamed, etc...
But, in the end, Rush schemed, as it turns out furtively, and Perry dies.
Just for a moment consider how things would have turned out if Rush had told the truth.
Ginn may still be killed by Simeon, but Perry would still be alive.