Luciene alliance.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

morbo,

Their ability to pull off a connection to Destiny was entirely stolen. They recreated the Icarus project using Telford's intel. They didn't do the work, and couldn't solve the problem themselves.

The "multiple planets" the Alliance controls are little more than farm worlds for growing kassa from what we've seen. The Icarus recreation was the first decent evidence of planetary research they've ever shown.

To the battle, we don't know the condition of the Hammond at the time, since we never see it use plasma beams. If it had, they'd have lost. Plus, it was a sneak attack.

I'd give them credit if anything they had was done by themselves, but it's not. From start to finish, the only thing they've ever done that was entirely in-house was kassa. The rest is stolen. Human tech is, too, but at least they reverse-engineered it and made their own ships.

It appears the LA is learning and is in the process of becoming a real threat to Earth.

[morbosfist]

They could be a real threat right now. Earth couldn't fight off an entire fleet, though they'd make the fleet earn the victory.

However, they've shown little that makes them much of a threat. They did one operation to capture an Earth ship, one underpowered compared to a Ha'tak at that, and used trickery. In response, Earth pretty much busted up half their kassa operation. They took the Icarus planet from the Alliance, and the Alliance retaliated by hitting a single base.

They were a threat to Destiny. Earth could take the Alliance any day of the week.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Morbo,

Again, quantity has a quality all its own. How many capital ships does Earth have as compared to how many the LA has?

[Shadow_7]

Also bear in mind that the location of Icarus to start with was stolen from the LA. The ability to find a second suitable planet an advantage. The whole next time we bring supplies, implies that they already have a 3rd site (or method) of sorts. Or not.

[Shadow_7]

It's simply ridiculous that they could. Earth didn't just gradually get to where they are, they got an absolutely massive boost from the Asgard. There's no way the Lucian Alliance could, in a mere few years, gain technological advancements of equal standing without the aid of some very powerful friends, which they do not have.

More to the point, where would they even get access to tech remotely as powerful? The Ancients didn't leave ships around in the Milky Way.

Brainwashing tech of members of the trust, they have an undetectable ship and such tech. It just depends on how fast you need the information. And what other expertise you need to use it. Telford was helping them quite a bit as a single individual. And through him they built their version of Icarus. With a dozen or so higher ups across the board, they could do anything with regards to asgard tech of earth.

And they apparently have some access to ancient tech. They had a box of keys to Destiny's doors. They didn't just create themselves.

[morbosfist]

Brainwashing tech of members of the trust, they have an undetectable ship and such tech. It just depends on how fast you need the information. And what other expertise you need to use it. Telford was helping them quite a bit as a single individual. And through him they built their version of Icarus. With a dozen or so higher ups across the board, they could do anything with regards to asgard tech of earth.

If they had more people than Telford working for them, they would have had an easier time taking the base for themselves. The Trust were taken over by the Goa'uld, and whatever organization they had died with the rest of the Goa'uld.

And they apparently have some access to ancient tech. They had a box of keys to Destiny's doors. They didn't just create themselves.

Keys are a far cry from late-era Ancient weapons.

[Shadow_7]

Keys are a far cry from late-era Ancient weapons.

Yes, but if they have a couple factories that made Destiny at hand. They could put up a good fight. Part of the reason for wanting to be on Destiny was to better understand the late-era weapons they currently have. So they can make more, versus being SOL once they blow up / use up what they have. As in ancient outpost is a little useless without drones. Most of the late era tech is pretty useless without ZPMs. And other if we really knew how this button works, we could rule the universe aspects.

[morbosfist]

The humans have access to the Atlantis database, which should have schematics on everything, and they can't replicate half of the stuff they have. How exactly is the Alliance supposed to do the same with an outdated ship when they can't even call back home?

[Shadow_7]

If they have keys to the ship, they have access to some form of ancient and understanding there of. Perhaps from the shipyard that built them. Schematics are one thing. The machines to actually BUILD an Atlantis or ZPM or ??? is a whole different ball game. Also bear in mind that there are a number of space fairing humans that have lived in space a lot longer than the earth has. Regardless of the inheritence aspect.

[morbosfist]

The keys to the ship could have been designed using Telford's intel. It isn't a complicated device. It's obviously just some sort of magnet to spin the lock open.

For one thing, we know the ship was launched from Earth, so the shipyards must have been there (why fly it to Earth for a launch?). Furthermore, if they had an active and fully functional Ancient shipyard, it still doesn't help them any to have Destiny. They can't send anything back, as far as we know, and an automated shipyard should have design specs already. They should be turning out warships unless they can't power it, in which case Destiny, again, isn't going to help.

[tinerin]

What about the Ori tech? Based on what Mallozzi has said on his blog regarding the attack on the Icarus planet, it's safe to assume that all of the Ori ships in the Milky Way were simply abandoned by the Ori followers after the events in Ark of Truth. Now who do you think would be in a better position to salvage all of that tech? The SGC, which had maybe one fully functional ship in the galaxy at the time, or the Lucian Alliance, a group of interstellar bounty hunters/thieves/smugglers/pirates/spies that had hundreds of hyperdrive capable ships at their disposal? Ori tech was designed to be built and used by simple farmers so engineers that already had knowledge of advanced weapon and shield technologies would have easily been able to reverse engineer and replicate the technology...

Another thing to think about is that if the Lucian Alliance were able to brainwash the guy who was supposed to have been directly in charge of what was supposedly one of the SGC's most top secret operations and gotten away with it for at least several years, what makes you think they couldn't have simply brainwashed one of the many workers it would take to build or operate a 304 and have them steal the plans for the Asgard weapons or shields? From what we've seen, our ship-building capabilities are fairly primitive compared to what the Goauld possessed, so if we're able to build Asgard tech from scratch, the Lucian Alliance should have little problem doing it too if they had the schematics. Do you really think that Telford is the only person in the SGC that they've brainwashed?

[morbosfist]

It couldn't be Ori tech. They needed those ships to fly their army home, and the SGC, who mediated the whole thing, wouldn't be so negligent to just leave an Ori cruiser floating around for anyone to find.

To the brainwashing, Telford was brainwashed because he was a spy within the Alliance ranks. They had ample opportunity. Kidnapping a scientist working on their 304s would be noticed. Telford's the only person they could have reasonably brainwashed without being caught.

[Shadow_7]

At a minimum, they have motherships and probably a means to build them. The Jaffa also have that understanding since they were the ones who actually built them under the Ga'uld. So whatever powers a Ga'uld mother ship, they have access to. Maybe like the wraith, they just need better shields and drive technology. And maybe a couple snazzy guns. Or just simply to know what everyone else knows so they can defend against it.

Databases and the likes can be copied, so it's not like steeling a database (information) would require hijacking Atlantis for a couple months. Lots of scenarios. Which just one person could make happen. They did seem to be sporting earth weapons, so what's to say that they don't already have everything earth has? Plus the other resources. The trust did know enough about the asgard stuff to program it to make a replicator. And with anubis tech they could download a consciousness.

Why would they build Destiny ON earth? Earth is habitable, using up that much resource on a ship that's being sent away might leave earth a little wanting. We know it left from earth, but that doesn't mean that it was built there. Most of the material for the 304's and the likes were mined from other sources. With the 302's being built / developed off world. So the odds of an intergalactic ship being the sole product of one planet are probably low. Especially if you start to factor in the scale of Destiny. Relative to the gas giants and suns that we've seen it pictured against. Both of which are huge in comparison to earth, and yet small enough in comparison to Destiny to see the curvature of the thing.

[morbosfist]

Databases and the likes can be copied, so it's not like steeling a database (information) would require hijacking Atlantis for a couple months. Lots of scenarios. Which just one person could make happen. They did seem to be sporting earth weapons, so what's to say that they don't already have everything earth has? Plus the other resources. The trust did know enough about the asgard stuff to program it to make a replicator. And with anubis tech they could download a consciousness.

People are just as paranoid about stolen data just as much as stolen people, and Telford isn't in a position to be stealing it. He has access to Icarus intel, but he's not on the other projects.

Why would they build Destiny ON earth? Earth is habitable, using up that much resource on a ship that's being sent away might leave earth a little wanting. We know it left from earth, but that doesn't mean that it was built there. Most of the material for the 304's and the likes were mined from other sources. With the 302's being built / developed off world. So the odds of an intergalactic ship being the sole product of one planet are probably low. Especially if you start to factor in the scale of Destiny. Relative to the gas giants and suns that we've seen it pictured against. Both of which are huge in comparison to earth, and yet small enough in comparison to Destiny to see the curvature of the thing.

Earth lacks most of the mineral resources necessary to even build a ship like Destiny. Offworld importing is the way the Ancients would have done it, just like the humans did. Keep in mind that they had other ships, too, and it was a big project. The Ancients aren't exactly pressed for time.

[Shadow_7]

People are just as paranoid about stolen data just as much as stolen people, and Telford isn't in a position to be stealing it. He has access to Icarus intel, but he's not on the other projects.

He doesn't have to be on the other projects. If you rob a bank robber, it's still functionally equivalent to robbing the bank. Just with a middle man. Over the course of a year, that he was with the LA. Plus probably 1.5 years with Icarus any number of things could have happened. Just look at the whole NID thing and Colonel Mayfield. How much Asgard tech did they take that the LA couldn't have also taken plunder of in their own way? Especially now that the asgard are not policing the skies. Lots of possiblities.