'Common Descent' (217) General Discussion

[RamblerReb]

I haven't read this whole thread, but did anyone else notice that that old guy(the leader of the village, I guess) sounded just like James Tolkan (Principal Strickland from Back to the Future)?

[Egle01]

Did anyone notice Young's finger at about 33:35

WTF

It's been visible several times before.

[Shak53]

I used to be mildly annoyed over people who seem to despise this particular series in the franchise. As of this particular episode, I find that this show has gone downhill. It's like the writers aren't even trying. They come up with a concept they like which might actually work and then they screw up the details. It really annoys me when a good idea is ruined like that.

A lot of the problems have already been discussed with this board, but the one in particular has only been just touched upon but it was the element that bothered me the most. I just could not suspend disbelief because of it. It's the concept that after 2000 years nothing changes aside from the immediate setting. I call bullocks.

It started when they first got onto the planet. We find two individuals who somehow were able to speak the exact same form of English as the crew of the Destiny. The Stargate franchise has always had that issue, but at least the off-world cultures often had certain cultural phrases and symbols that distracted me from that little glitch. It bothered me this time because, despite lame protestations that the culture didn't have anything for the language to be influenced by (that's ridiculous - languages do evolve without the aid of borrowing from other cultures - slang is one such manner, but they did have exposure to other cultures - Lucian alliance, Wray's Asian ancestry, Ancient).

I could cope with that if it were the only flaw, but the flaw extends to other areas. Let's look at these two characters. Even before understanding what this episode was about, I observed that the girl looked remarkably like Chloe and the boy looked like the Lieutenant. It's not outside the realm of probability that this would occur, but it's a pretty damn remote probability when you consider both the length of time and the variety of genetic matches possible from the old Destiny crew. I simply don't buy it.

Then, we have the dude who looked like an Indian. We are obviously supposed to understand that he's Wray's descendent. That's fine. At least, he didn't look like the major characters. The problem with him is his skepticism. He sounds *exactly* like most of the major characters regarding the existence of hell and evil spirits. Are we really supposed to understand that the defacto spokesman for that civilization would coincidentally have the exact same attitude as Eli, Young, and most of the other crew? I guess I can believe that if there weren't for all the other common elements. This is obviously the writer's attempt to evangelize their point of view. That's fine, but when he spoke about the two younger characters as "unenlightened", well, look, obviously, Rush isn't a demon, but if any of you were to have your deeply held beliefs characterized in that fashion, would you not at least feel insulted? How about just in general. If someone presumes to speak for you in an insulting manner to others, would that not at least irritate you? I would not want such a person speaking on my behalf and I've never heard of any individual who would. Are we supposed to believe that they just stand there meekly and not even lift an eyebrow? or look askance or say *anything*? Even after Rush left the room? Sorry, I don't buy it. It's not about whether they are right in their beliefs. It's about what would make sense. Human beings don't typically take such belittlement in stride.

The political tensions on Novus. Am I supposed to really believe that there is such a lack of nuance and variety in a population of millions? I understand elucidating the dominant strains, but after two THOUSAND years, I don't buy that they would revolve their dominant political ideologies around something that happened so long ago. If this was supposed to be some half-hearted tack against "the Christian Right" in politics, it's a really laughable attempt since I really don't see that political ideas are centered around Jesus' return or whether he's a good person, even amongst the evangelicals. If anything, Christian political ideas folllow through more on the classical liberal tradition (right to life and property), so the equivalence completely fails. I'm sorry. I don't buy it. In the 2000 years, there'd be more pressing concerns (like economics, crime, health care, families, you know, the nitty gritty of life). I suppose I'm supposed to believe that Eli and Rush pose as Saviour or Scribe figures, even though there's no way (esp. with Keno technology) I can believe that they would write something along the same lines as the book of Genesis or Deuteronomy or even the gospel of John.

Also, we come to the basis for Eli's enthusiasm over meeting these people. He claimed at the lunch table that they "ARE us". Um, no. He believes that they have their understanding, to which TJ said that they also have their disagreements. There are a couple of problems with that. The first is along the same lines as the above paragraph. The second is this. Think about it. Compare yourselves to your parents. I'm sure that you have much in common with them, but I bet you could point out MANY areas where you differ from both in relation to personal beliefs and values, or even general personality and temperament.You see, while the people of Novus may have come from the other Destiny crew, they also come from the family of the Destiny crew. They may have inherited some characteristics of Eli's Mom, for example, that he did not attain himself and that we don't see at all otherwise. As well, having a sense of understanding is not something you inherit. It's something you learn growing up. There may be some genetic elements that might make you more amenable to learning this lesson, but Mr. Eli, it doesn't always work out that way. It's complicated how we develop as we age. A lot of characteristics interact with each other in unexpected ways. You have the phenomenon of recessive attributes becoming more dominant in certain populations as they become more genetically linked, as well as the impact of environment on how the children develop and what genetic predispositions are activated and to what degree. No doubt, the phenomenon of being raised on a different planet with different living conditions but coming from a strain of people that are unique (probably tougher, smarter, and stronger) from the rest of the Earth population would change them. The truth: the people of Novus are not them. So, I completely couldn't buy what he was saying.

So, yes, I couldn't buy this episode. I think all this egoist self-adulation "they are us" nonsense is too annoying. It is the *worst* episode I've ever seen. I only hope the second part explains away some of my issues.

The writers have a problem with how they express their ideas. What they need is somebody to come up with the good ideas and another competent individual who can flesh it out in a way that is actually believable.

[RamblerReb]

... the gag with the name of the Rush-worshipers' country? I am not sure if it was intentional or not, but the double-bubble Lincoln Futura was the 1961 show car that the basis for the original Batmobile. I can't believe it was a coincidence, personally, although preeeeetty obscure.

[Nth Chevron]

I can safely say i did not.

Although i had no clue it was a reference no matter how obscure lol

N.C

[morrismike]

When the episode comes out on hulu i'll post the exact time the person appears. I watched it on On Demand several times, but I can't get a time read-out. Needless to say, I watched that scene many times and I'm convinced there is a guy with a mental disorder -- or at least looks like he has a mental disorder. It could be real or it could just be acting, but it's not normal. I wouldn't highlight this as anything significant if it were under different circumstances. Genetics was a theme in this episode so if indeed that person had genetic abnormalities or some brand of retardation I find that interesting that briefly through a background 'extra' is how the director/producers chose to communicate the genetic imperfection aspect of seeding a civilization.

There are a lot of people on the show already with mental disorders (Rush sociopathy, Cloe infactuatrous, etc.), another one isn't a big deal.

[Shadow_7]

2000 years really isn't that long IMO. Genetically anyway. If you look at Kings and Queens and the inbreeding of sorts involved in royalty begatting royalty. It's more liklely to have hemophilia versus down syndrome. Baring some genetic experiments of course. But then again with binary pulsar radiation, background radiation, and other things...

[caribsci]

really good episode and i'm gonna say this.We gripe and moan about english speaking aliens and how different SGU is to the previous series but, is it a coincidence that imo the best episode this season involved english speaking aliens needing to be rescued?bottom line is ,interaction with humanoid aliens is what makes us wanna watch.

[LtColCarter]

really good episode and i'm gonna say this.We gripe and moan about english speaking aliens and how different SGU is to the previous series but, is it a coincidence that imo the best episode this season involved english speaking aliens needing to be rescued?bottom line is ,interaction with humanoid aliens is what makes us wanna watch.

But were they really aliens?

[Skiznot]

really good episode and i'm gonna say this.We gripe and moan about english speaking aliens and how different SGU is to the previous series but, is it a coincidence that imo the best episode this season involved english speaking aliens needing to be rescued?bottom line is ,interaction with humanoid aliens is what makes us wanna watch.

Not me. Creative non human Aliens that have very different motivations that we have to try to figure out makes me want to watch. You don't speak for "us." I did like this episode because of the cool time paradox idea and because it grew out of episodes that have gone before. In fact I wish they had changed their English to be hard to understand because it would probably change a lot after 2000 years. Either that or make it more like 300 years.

[jsonitsac]

This one seemed like it would be a throwback to old style stargate. Luckily it wasn't. Sure it had the elements-a semi-primitive human civilization living off of Earth. However, to me that's where the parallels end. I think they did a masterful job blending it with SGU's arcs and gray area morality. While I would like to say that if more episodes had been like this one early on SGU wouldn't be in as much trouble as it is, I can't, mainly because those earlier episodes were what helped to build to this.

[LtColCarter]

It was a good episode people...quit nit-pickin'!

[caribsci]

Not me. Creative non human Aliens that have very different motivations that we have to try to figure out makes me want to watch.

and yet its the humanoid type or humans who cause the most conflict.

[Skiznot]

This was the best episode of the season IMO.


2000 years is a long time ago think how much we have advanced from the time of Christ. I did find it odd that it only took 10 years to build the village yet those people on the planet were there for 30 years yet were still living in tents.

I wondered if the number 2000 was selected specifically for it's relationship with Christian mythology. If it was 300 years the destiny would have just been ancestors, by 600 legends perhaps but after 2000 enough time has past for some to see destiny folks as almost gods/demons. I think this story line can go on way longer than 2 episodes and be really compelling.

[LtColCarter]

I wondered if the number 2000 was selected specifically for it's relationship with Christian mythology. If it was 300 years the destiny would have just been ancestors, by 600 legends perhaps but after 2000 enough time has past for some to see destiny folks as almost gods/demons. I think this story line can go on way longer than 2 episodes and be really compelling.

I concur