'Cloverdale' (205) General Discussion

[Eternal Density]

To those who argue that saying this episode not effecting the main plot makes it poor, you are correct.

I disagree.

However this is a poor episode, because matt and chloe are the 2 worst characters in the entire history of stargate. Chloe especially has no more point that stupid titilation for horny teenagers.

I disagree and object.

Add to that, there is nothing wrong with a character based episode, if

1) its actually interesting, and
2) we learn something new about the focused characters

This episode achieved neither of these points.

Yes it did.

This was just a terrible filler episode that added nothing in any way to stargate universe.

Not for me.

The only people who say they like this are the ones who love stargate so much that they like every episode, no matter how bad.

That is both untrue and unfair.

[edit]And plenty of classic Stargate eps were 'fillers'

[LoneStar1836]

SG-1's The Changeling was a much better episode with the same concept. And if you don't like me noting that, well then "tough noogies" as Crais from Farscape would say in the best dream episode ever conceived in the history of tv. The Changeling is actually one of my top 10 episodes of SG-1. Cloverdale not so much. Why? The subject matter.

Loved:

- Rush as the JP. And the boots!

Liked:

- Rush.

- Where the episode ended. Moves that plot along at least.

- Young being such an ass at the end of the ep when Scott and Chloe returned. Quarantine them of course but what was with the attitude. You'd think he'd at least be happy they were alive. I'm waiting for the payoff for when he finally snaps.

- Young in the dream state and what it revealed about how Scott feels about him...the doubting. Not particularly a new revelation, but nice to see that Scott is not the blind follower he was early on.

- LF as alternate Young. Nice change of pace for him.

- Transitions from dream to reality.

- And I guess I have to give some props to Chloe for risking her life to save Scott.

Meh:

- This episode. Maybe if I actually liked Scott (like I loved Teal'c), I might have liked this episode more. I like him more now than I did for most of season one (which fluctuated from dislike to whatever), so that's a plus, but not enough for me to really enjoy or care about this episode.

I care nothing for his and Chloe's relationship. I care nothing about Eli pining away for Chloe. Stop torturing yourself, dude. So since most of the ep focused on that aspect well.... *zzzzzz*

Heh, early on I half expected them to cut off Scott's arm and then use Chloe's alien ability to grow him another arm. Resolution was a no-brainer, but it moves the story along.

Not the worst ep of SGU. Not the best either.

[Eternal Density]

You know, Rush was pretty admirable in this episode (let's focus on real!Rush and not hallucination!Rush).

(1) He offered to run back to the gate and get stuff, and he ran pretty fast and furiously.

(2) He kept his wits about him, getting stuff in increasing levels of urgency (alien venom to start, acid to try to burn the stuff off, a bone saw if all else failed).

(3) He was unsentimental about the possible amputation, but it was an extreme situation, and it was obviously something that needed to be considered (and TJ agreed).

(4) When TJ sent all non-military personnel back, Rush didn't go - he stayed and helped TJ with the transfusion, up until the moment when Greer told Rush and TJ both to go. He's been called a coward many times - this didn't seem very cowardly at all.

Overall, real!Rush gets full points.

Now, hallucination!Rush - well, he had some fabulous boots.

Yep, full points!
I wonder whether Rush has been thinking about the deaths he's caused and wanted to help save a life this time.

[Kaiphantom]

Yep, full points!
I wonder whether Rush has been thinking about the deaths he's caused and wanted to help save a life this time.

Or whether he's always been like this, and we just haven't considered it. ;p

[Eternal Density]

Or whether he's always been like this, and we just haven't considered it. ;p

Yeah... he likely was more like this before. Time to study Human again.

[Blink710]

Can someone explain where they got flamethrowers from? That doesn't seem like standard issue emergency supplies and I doubt the Alliance would have tried taking the ship with them.

[Kaiphantom]

Can someone explain where they got flamethrowers from? That doesn't seem like standard issue emergency supplies and I doubt the Alliance would have tried taking the ship with them.

Human ingenuity. Greer somehow assembled a makeshift one in Water, and I guess they put two more together.

[JustAnotherVoice]

Human ingenuity. Greer somehow assembled a makeshift one in Water, and I guess they put two more together.

They must have gone through their year's supply of hair spray in those 3 hours!

[the fifth man]

Human ingenuity. Greer somehow assembled a makeshift one in Water, and I guess they put two more together.

That explanation works for me.

[senilegreen]

First off, I simply accept that the Stargate producers readily recycle previous concepts, either their own or that of others. SG as a franchise has not introduced too many new ideas into the realm of SF/Fantasy. Stargate is not a fount of originality. The strength of Stargate episodes normally arise from the acting and production.

The fault I have with this episode though is the production/direction. Some of the non-dream scenes are shot with a style that is left-over from Blair and I think it detracts because we, the viewers, are already semi-omniscient. After all, for most of the episode we're peering inside the head of a dreaming man!

A bit more of a revelation about the encroaching super-being-fungi would have added more interest for the hard Science Fiction fans.

The dream scenes could have benefited from either music or alternative photographic techniques.

I rated this episode a 5 - it just seemed like another hour of SyFy tv.

[Coronach]

I really liked this episode, and just got done watching it a bit ago due to being busy recently. Most things have been hashed over though, so I'll just add the following:

There has been a ton of argument in the past over whether Chloe was "leading Eli on", and one thing I liked about this episode is that (regardless of where you stood before in said argument), I think it's pretty clear that Chloe is blatantly not giving out mixed signals anymore. Her decision to stay with Scott was very clear and that aspect was definitely played up in the episode.

Others have disagreed so far, but I've always kind of liked Scott and Chloe and this episode makes me like them even more. Also, imho, I think the writers have actually done a better job to make me care about their relationship and I'm interested to see where it goes.

[Eternal Density]

Human ingenuity. Greer somehow assembled a makeshift one in Water, and I guess they put two more together.

Greer is the Pyro in Team Fortress 2.

[nx01a]

"You were there. And you were there. And you were there, too, auntie Rush!"
As a preamble, let me confess that Farscape has forever ruined me for all other hallucinatory sci-fi. Once you go Farscape...

The Good:
>Cloverdale... A field of lucky flowers. I saw what you did there, writer. Cute. Very cute.
>Nice CGI. The kawooshes [kawooshi?] were beautiful. The alien planimals were great, too.
>The fight between planimals and Greer's Pyros was sweet.
>I wonder if the music playing at Brody's bar was Porno For Pyros. It would fit for Greer.
>The visual and sound effect of one kawoosh was replaced by one of the flame throwers powering down. Nice water/fire mash-up.
>Becker!
>Hypochondriac Eli!
>Scott sees Eli as Chloe's camera-fetished brother. LOL!
>Nice direction/writing. The switches between the fake world and the real world were nice segues and made sense.
>James as Scott's ex.
>No one believes Scott's a one woman man. Not the fans, not the writers, not even Scott's subconscious.
>Young wasn't drinking! ...though Mirror Young was.
>Mirror Rush was just as flippant, anti-Young and well written as the real thing.
>Did you SEE Scott get hit by that car?!
>Since Scott was questioning their relationship last episode, maybe things like marriage are on his mind. That might explain the diversion into the psychology of the perpetuation of small town American life seen in his delusion. It's the only way I can fathom why he'd dream this stuff.
>Was it me or was Cloverdale the same place Smallville is filmed?
>The alien venom... didn't work?!?! Guess it was only the cure-all for the last galaxy.
>Poor Rush. His plans for Chloe won't be coming to fruition.
>This planet is obviously dangerous and Destiny should have locked out the address. Could their ending up at this planet be because of Rush's continued manipulation of Destiny's systems?
>Eli saying goodbye to Scott but giving Chloe the evil eye for staying with Scott and not him.
>This looks like another job for Super Chloe!
>Pyro Greer!
>Volker is the pharmacist and Brody is the bar owner. Fitting.
>Oh, Dr. Park! You WOULD be the expert on tentacle rape monsters...

The Bad:
>The colour job they did on the forest slipped on some occasions. I can plainly see green leaves through Chloe and Volker's hair at times.
>I was really hoping the Rush/Chloe secret alliance would last longer.
>I do hope there weren't supplies in those crates.
>Now Scott and Chloe can be together forever. *barf* At least Mirror Chloe gave Scott a potential out before they signed their lives away to each other. The 'real' Chloe [if such a thing has existed since she was abducted] literally made him one blood with her, without his consent. Rush's rantings about rational people be damned. He just wants another Math Boy or Little Miss Perfect.
>Ye Gods! Imagine the children!!!!

The Ugly:
>Did they just reuse Wraith and Iratus bug-infection makeup for Chloe and Scott?
>Chloe just waltzing over to an overlooked section of the perimeter and holding out her hand like she's communing with the tentacle rape monster.

The Verdict:
>I was reminded of 'Time' as well as the movie Pleasantville while watching this episode. And that's a good thing. I wanted things to get really surreal a la Farscape's epically sublime delusions, but I suppose I'll have to settle for the moral of the story: that following the party line and doing what society expects from you especially when you have doubts will make you marry [or turn into] a monster.

"...and I can tell you that you're alive until you're dead. You are going to die, Matthew. We all will. Eventually. ...So! 7 o'clock, then! The 'Dearly Beloved' business?"

It was an enjoyable hour of TV. I wouldn't call it the best thing ever, but it was a well written and nicely CGI'd mix of psychological deconstruction and KICK IT'S ASS!!! action.

[Eternal Density]

...
>Was it me or was Cloverdale the same place Smallville is filmed?
...

Good post!
And in answer to that question:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/the-bh/550753688/
Yes, the Clova Theatre in Cloverdale (that's what it's actually called in real life, I hadn't realised that, being an Australian and all that) is indeed the Smallville Talon.
[edit] Hey, it still shows movies too! According to http://cinematreasures.org/theater/18001/
[edit]

but I suppose I'll have to settle for the moral of the story: that following the party line and doing what society expects from you especially when you have doubts will make you marry [or turn into] a monster.

Funny thing is that Matt didn't expect Chloe to be the monster, it was himself he was doubting. Kinda ironic when he thought Chloe was the normal girl and he was the guy with issues

[garhkal]

If you took out some of the dream scenes, since some were a little boring, this would of been an excellent episode. I think they just used that as a filler plot to feed the story to see what was going on with Scott. I think they should of used some of that time to maybe have scenes on the Destiny and the LA.

But yeah felt like The Changelling all they way. Actually it was exactly like the Changeling. Think about it...

Chloe and Scott getting married bonding, was her bonding her blood to save his life. l.

Initially i was like WTF.. Then after thinking about it more and reading the comments, it actually grew on me as an ep. I also liked how they tied in what was happening IRL to the dream..

]Looking back from the moment the episode ended, I think it was extremely well crafted. It all worked together to build up to the moment where Scott is saved

That it did.. I give cudos to the producer.

Greer + flamethrower=epic win

I would gladly put up with this ep again just to see all those flamethrowers in action again.

You know I couldnt help but think, Where were those Flamethrowers when the LA were attacking? Could have made clearing hallways faster

Maybe AFTEr the invasion is when young told Greer to get the others together to make more..

Greer was awesome in this episode, he really came across as the good friend to Scott that I would expect him to be. You can see how highly Scott really thinks of Greer!

Which to me is a litte strange, seeing how Greer was towards scott when Young was doing the 'torture' of Telford and how Scott was all questioning it.

Jelgate,

Rush played the role of a Justice of the Peace, which is a civil magistrate authorized to perform weddings in the United States.

I am actually surprised that wasn't Telford's role.

. Eli believed Chloe was doing some sort of Romeo/Juliet thing--and you could tell he thought less of her for it. Despite the events at the end of season 1 and start of season 2, Eli still had feelings for her. But it's moments like this that will enable him to really let go--and then I think he will be better for it.

Especially with to me, how well they seemed to get along during the latter part of Ep 20 season 1, when eli literally risked his life/health to save/care for her..

As usual I enjoyed the Greer-Rush interplay. I just can't help but get the sense that these two people just understand each other on some base level no matter how different they are.

It did surprise me that greer was actually paying attention to Rush's words.

Although TJ does sum things up nicely with one phrase, "Rush is right!" Look for more of that in the future.

It did give me goosebumps to hear TJ say that. Finaly someone else sees rush's calousness as being what is needed in situations.

one thing Im trying to remember is why - were they on that planet to begin with? Presumably for food but, was there any mention why they were even down there??
.

Yea.. they were mining for a rare element. Plotoupious!

Did you miss the part where she got infected so she could save Scott? Because that was kinda important. She wasn't risking the safety of the crew, only herself.

And whos to say her 'walking up to the enemy' like that, did NOT put them i danger as it showed the enemy a hole in the defense ring.

So her sneaking off and purposely getting infected in the middle of a firefight without telling a single person what she was doing was extremely dangerous. What if Eli or TJ had grabbed her hand to get her into the gate? If if she fell and landed on someone? What if she was wrong? She risked everyone's lives on a hunch and the fact that she wanted to get her way and cuddle for a few extra minutes.

Very true. There was several things which could have gone terribily wrong with that scene, where she went to get infected. And other than she WAS imune, who was to say her doing that would not have gotten Both of them infected.

Just because she isn't a genius doesn't mean she can't put two and two together. The stuff got on her clothes yet didn't infect her despite touching her. She took the chance and let the plant sting her. It worked. It wasn't dangerous to anyone but herself because she left the group behind, a fair distance at that, and made her infection apparent the moment she came back.

Ever been in a combat situation? Someone going off on their own, close to the enemy's location, SHOWING a weakness like that, AND at the same time getting infected (which was later killed off by her other infection) is to me the height of putting them in danger.

WTF? She saved his life! Yes, I think he will be grateful, because otherwise he would be a Scott-shaped block of blue rock candy on some godforsaken triffid planet.

I know people IRL who had a loved one do something stupid like this to save them and not only is there resentment but in some cases out riht hatred that they would stoop to doing something so selflish (to not let the sick one go) that risks BOTH, without seeing the potential for hurt it causes everyone else).. YES it worked out, but still...

Especially Chloe's Smurf-terminator face. I wonder how much of the dream does Matt remember.

Part of me hopes he remembers it all.. Part of me feels he won't remember any.

Bye SG franchise, it ended with a whimper.

Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out...

Cont next post..