'Awakening' (203) General Discussion

[morbosfist]

And? Look at your question. You asked why the ancients would go to any galaxy Destiny passed by. To seed the galaxy with life. They did it in Pegasus.
We do know that Pegasus is the first Galaxy that Destiny passed through, yet, the Stargates found in Pegasus is the latest models, not the ones in in the Seed ships. So, the Ancienrts went to Pegasus, gated the whole galaxy after they got there, and then seeded the Galaxy. And if they didn't encounter the Wraith, maybe they would have continued on to more Galaxies. It would be a reasnable projection.

Then why not move on from Pegasus? They had millions of years to do it.

I've watched all the episodes many times. It still doesn't prove your point. At the edge of the galaxy, obviously there are less planets that are viable to seed. Doesn't illustrate what's within the Galaxy, or how spread out they are.

WALLACE: Well, we do know that Destiny is travelling down a path - basically a corridor of Gates left behind by the ships that were sent in advance. It meanders somewhat but generally it heads in one direction. I mean, they wouldn't put Gates on every planet in every galaxy.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=919&pos=144

Fact: the gates head in one direction. Fact: the image displays a single line. You're grasping at straws again.

And your proof is? Just because Destiny crew are theorizing does not mean that it is a fact.
Just look at 'Darkness/Light' Rush was missing a key information. How Destiny re-fueled. Therefore he thought Destiny was going to be destroyed.

They would know better. They know what the ships are supposed to do and that this one isn't doing what it's supposed to do. Simple as that. It's you who is denying the obvious.

Mt analogy works fine, thank you. Just because you have a closed mind doesn't make so.
In case of a drone, an unmanned anything. anything that won't be re-used is stripped away.

Then why have consoles, corridors, walkways, etc.? If it was meant to be totally unmanned, why even leave the option for direct user interface? Your analogy fails because drone aircraft are small. Big things need space for people to work in them, drone or not.

And in what episode did you see this happen?

The same one you're drawing all your conclusions from, the only difference is mine aren't in direct contradiction to established events.

The ships are massive. We only saw one section from one point of view.

The gates go on into the distance. That area spans the entire length of the ship.

Things change.

In other words, you expect Mallozzi to contradict himself later.

And you know for a fact that he'll never change his mind, right?
I've known Producers, creators change their mind and canons whenever they could justifiably do so, and they deem necessary.

If you want to close your mind, go right ahead. I was always under impression that in Science Fiction, we look for common sense and open own minds to possibilities.

Possibilities are one thing. This is just denial. Your theory doesn't fit, and rather than accept that, you've decided to cling to it in the hopes that canon will change down the road to vindicate you.

[Misfits]

Then why not move on from Pegasus? They had millions of years to do it.

I don't know. I wasn't there or seen anything from everything Stargate to form a solid theory. Maybe the war against the Wraith changed their plans, who knows.

WALLACE: Well, we do know that Destiny is travelling down a path - basically a corridor of Gates left behind by the ships that were sent in advance. It meanders somewhat but generally it heads in one direction. I mean, they wouldn't put Gates on every planet in every galaxy.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=919&pos=144

Fact: the gates head in one direction. Fact: the image displays a single line. You're grasping at straws again.

You're not looking ar your own quote. As Eli states, it meanders somewhat. Yes, of course Destiny goes from one edge of the Galaxy to the other edge. It has to in order to follow the seeder ships.
However, the path Destiny takes within the Galaxy probably wouldn't be a straight line, or the shortest. There's no way every Galaxy would have seedable planets in the same places and always in straight line.

They would know better. They know what the ships are supposed to do and that this one isn't doing what it's supposed to do. Simple as that. It's you who is denying the obvious.

They knew it so well that they sent a shuttle of 17 people to a rock of a planet in 'Darkness/Light'

They're theorizing based on the info they have, and they're not always right. They certainly were wrong in 'Darkness/Light'. Weren't they?

Then why have consoles, corridors, walkways, etc.? If it was meant to be totally unmanned, why even leave the option for direct user interface? Your analogy fails because drone aircraft are small. Big things need space for people to work in them, drone or not.

See, here we go. You reference what was said in the episode as fact, and in this instance you totally ignore it.
Rush said that unmanned seeder ships where sent ahead of Destiny. Info is relayed back to Destiny, and then Destiny plots a course.
Besides, that is my whole point.
If you reason that these things exist, then it's fair to project that they are there to be used. If that's the case, then the presumption. that Destiny wasn't supposed to catch up to any seeder ships, falls flat.

The same one you're drawing all your conclusions from, the only difference is mine aren't in direct contradiction to established events.

Prove it. Show me.

The gates go on into the distance. That area spans the entire length of the ship.

And you can absolutely ascertain this from one view, without looking what was behind them. That's brilliant.

In other words, you expect Mallozzi to contradict himself later.

He can do anything he wants. In fact some things are left undefined just so that they have room to make such changes.

Possibilities are one thing. This is just denial. Your theory doesn't fit, and rather than accept that, you've decided to cling to it in the hopes that canon will change down the road to vindicate you.

I'm just telling you what I saw. I haven't seen anything that supports your beliefs. Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. You have a point, fine, prove it. Show me.

[morbosfist]

You're not looking ar your own quote. As Eli states, it meanders somewhat. Yes, of course Destiny goes from one edge of the Galaxy to the other edge. It has to in order to follow the seeder ships.
However, the path Destiny takes within the Galaxy probably wouldn't be a straight line, or the shortest. There's no way every Galaxy would have seedable planets in the same places and always in straight line.

Any planet can be seeded, even ones that can't support human or Ancient life. The fact is, Eli's quote is clear: generally a straight line. "Meanders" does not mean several rows of gates or that it veers off on a tangent or anything like that. It just means you get a course which is mostly straight with a few bends along the way.

They knew it so well that they sent a shuttle of 17 people to a rock of a planet in 'Darkness/Light'

They're theorizing based on the info they have, and they're not always right. They certainly were wrong in 'Darkness/Light'. Weren't they?

Unless, as Young suspects, Rush did know. But he was just being paranoid. Refueling is one of the functions of the ship, its basic operating protocol. The seeders would have been outlined in Destiny's mission, which would have told the crew of any periodic docking.

See, here we go. You reference what was said in the episode as fact, and in this instance you totally ignore it.
Rush said that unmanned seeder ships where sent ahead of Destiny. Info is relayed back to Destiny, and then Destiny plots a course.
Besides, that is my whole point.
If you reason that these things exist, then it's fair to project that they are there to be used. If that's the case, then the presumption. that Destiny wasn't supposed to catch up to any seeder ships, falls flat.

They are there to be used when you're making the ship, because you can't make an automated starship and not have areas accessible by humans for the final touches. It's simply unfeasible for a vessel that size.

Prove it. Show me.

Works both ways.

And you can absolutely ascertain this from one view, without looking what was behind them. That's brilliant.

They docked at the rear of the ship. There is nothing behind them.

He can do anything he wants. In fact some things are left undefined just so that they have room to make such changes.

There's a difference between wiggle room and an outright retcon. Yours would be the latter.

I'm just telling you what I saw. I haven't seen anything that supports your beliefs. Just because you say it is, doesn't make it so. You have a point, fine, prove it. Show me.

You didn't see anything, though. That's the problem. You saw the episode, which makes every indication that it should not have stopped, then concocted this random theory. You've even changed it wholesale from where you started rather than let go, namely in your assertion that Destiny was uploading data to the seeder, not downloading.

[Misfits]

Any planet can be seeded, even ones that can't support human or Ancient life. The fact is, Eli's quote is clear: generally a straight line. "Meanders" does not mean several rows of gates or that it veers off on a tangent or anything like that. It just means you get a course which is mostly straight with a few bends along the way.

Try reading what I said before you disagree. I never said they were traveling like through a maze. I said it wasn't a straight line, the shortest way between on edge of the Galaxy to the other. Of course they are generally going in one direction. How many bends Destiny has on it's course is up to Destiny. I never said they make a u-turn or a spiral course.

Unless, as Young suspects, Rush did know. But he was just being paranoid. Refueling is one of the functions of the ship, its basic operating protocol. The seeders would have been outlined in Destiny's mission, which would have told the crew of any periodic docking.

The point is they didn't know Destiny was re-fueling. If they knew, it would be inane to pick 15 people through lottery to send them.
The critical fact that they didn't have is that this was part of routine. So, it stands to reason that what they are theorizing now could be just as wrong.
As for the mission details, there have been no mention as to what it is. All they know is that seeder ships are ahead of Destiny. That's it. Everything else is a guess.

They are there to be used when you're making the ship, because you can't make an automated starship and not have areas accessible by humans for the final touches. It's simply unfeasible for a vessel that size.

They can use them while building the seeder ship. when finished and before sending, they can remove then, especially when you take into account they will never be used again. The fact that they are still there, would suggest that they are to be used again.

Works both ways.

I'm theorizing. I'm projecting based on what is seen. You make statements like it's a fact. Well, if it is, then prove it. Show me those facts.
In case of the subspace link, you did. I read the part, I thought Eli was referring to the database. When you pointed out your point of view, I re-read the transcript based on your interpretation. It made more sense, and I agree with your assessment.

They docked at the rear of the ship. There is nothing behind them.

You think. There's no proof as to where they are within the ship, or what direction Scott, Greer and Rush went to to see it. Also, you'll notice that the Stargate manufacturing room is about as wide as the Gate room in Destiny. The ship is a much wider than that, and there are multiple decks.

There's a difference between wiggle room and an outright retcon. Yours would be the latter.

And you have blinders on. Try looking around for a change.

You didn't see anything, though. That's the problem. You saw the episode, which makes every indication that it should not have stopped, then concocted this random theory. You've even changed it wholesale from where you started rather than let go, namely in your assertion that Destiny was uploading data to the seeder, not downloading.

Brody made a statement to that. Nobody knows if he's right.
I never made any assertion that Destiny uploaded anything to the Seeder ship.
I would think the data only flowed from seeder to Destiny.

[kymeric]

Im alittle suprised they didnt replace the shuttles this episode somehow. I guess they really are SOL for space travel now apart from space suits and things they can dock with. That kinda changes the tone of the series.

[mi_guard]

Im alittle suprised they didnt replace the shuttles this episode somehow. I guess they really are SOL for space travel now apart from space suits and things they can dock with. That kinda changes the tone of the series.

probably as the seeder ship was never supposed to have a crew, there was no point in equipping it with shuttles. Thus they did not find any they could take.

But I was wondering if the seeder ship was only made to build stargates or if it could build other things (like a shuttle) if you change the production 'order'.

[morbosfist]

Try reading what I said before you disagree. I never said they were traveling like through a maze. I said it wasn't a straight line, the shortest way between on edge of the Galaxy to the other. Of course they are generally going in one direction. How many bends Destiny has on it's course is up to Destiny. I never said they make a u-turn or a spiral course.

Nevertheless, Eli says its a mostly straight line, and Eli would know. It also means the gates are in a single line, as in indicated by the visual.

The point is they didn't know Destiny was re-fueling. If they knew, it would be inane to pick 15 people through lottery to send them.
The critical fact that they didn't have is that this was part of routine. So, it stands to reason that what they are theorizing now could be just as wrong.
As for the mission details, there have been no mention as to what it is. All they know is that seeder ships are ahead of Destiny. That's it. Everything else is a guess.

Only by your opinion. You're taking one lack of information and trying to undermine everything they know with it, which is flawed logic. They know how the seeders are supposed to act.

They can use them while building the seeder ship. when finished and before sending, they can remove then, especially when you take into account they will never be used again. The fact that they are still there, would suggest that they are to be used again.

No, you don't remove them again, because if on the off chance you have to service the vessel, you'd have to stop it and reinstall them just to do it. Moreover, to remove them, you'd have to disassemble large portions of the ship.

I'm theorizing. I'm projecting based on what is seen. You make statements like it's a fact. Well, if it is, then prove it. Show me those facts.
In case of the subspace link, you did. I read the part, I thought Eli was referring to the database. When you pointed out your point of view, I re-read the transcript based on your interpretation. It made more sense, and I agree with your assessment.

Theorizing is one thing, but you're drawing assumptions out of nowhere yet acting like you don't need proof. If the ship stopped on purpose, where is the proof?

You think. There's no proof as to where they are within the ship, or what direction Scott, Greer and Rush went to to see it. Also, you'll notice that the Stargate manufacturing room is about as wide as the Gate room in Destiny. The ship is a much wider than that.

It's easy to prove where they are in the ship. No room could possibly be that long unless it ran down the length of the vessel. They're still in the aft section, because it hardly takes ten minutes to get from the control room back to the ship.

And you have blinders on. Try looking around for a change.

You're just not willing to accept being wrong. Blinders is ignoring the obvious, per the above subspace link. There is nothing about this theory that is fact, so I cannot possibly be blind to it.

Brody made a statement to that. Nobody knows if he's right.
I never made any assertion that Destiny uploaded anything to the Seeder ship.
I would think the data only flowed from seeder to Destiny.

Brody's guess is a proper hypothesis based on available data. He'd know better than you or I.

As stated way at the beginning of this mess, your idea was that the seeders docked occasionally to transfer information because Destiny couldn't hold it all. You only came up with the other ideas after that was shot down.

[Misfits]

Nevertheless, Eli says its a mostly straight line, and Eli would know. It also means the gates are in a single line, as in indicated by the visual.

So, you're taking the visual from an alien ship showing a set of gates at the edge of the galaxy to what you claim are facts. I don't think so.
You would have to ascertain that the Aliens knew where all the gates are actually located. We know Destiny knows. But you're making a leap that the Aliens knew, I see. That makes sense to you?

Only by your opinion. You're taking one lack of information and trying to undermine everything they know with it, which is flawed logic. They know how the seeders are supposed to act.

The whole 'Darkness/Light' was proof that Rush didn't know.
If he knew, the Episodes wouldn't need to happen.

Just look at 'Earth'. ho-hum. Destiny is re-fueling.
The reason why everybody panicked in 'Darkness/Light' is because they didn't know, and their theories were wrong.
Brody's theory about the seeder ship could be just as wrong.

No, you don't remove them again, because if on the off chance you have to service the vessel, you'd have to stop it and reinstall them just to do it. Moreover, to remove them, you'd have to disassemble large portions of the ship.

You're sending the seeder ships into unknown space. Once you send it, that's it. They will never be used again.
Why would you have to disassemble large portions of the ship? They're terminals.

Theorizing is one thing, but you're drawing assumptions out of nowhere yet acting like you don't need proof. If the ship stopped on purpose, where is the proof?

I'm theorizing based on what we have seen so far. That's all I'm doing. And the events fit much better under my theory. that's all.
You state your arguments as if you have proof that they are facts.
Fine, prove it, show me the evidence.

It's easy to prove where they are in the ship. No room could possibly be that long unless it ran down the length of the vessel. They're still in the aft section, because it hardly takes ten minutes to get from the control room back to the ship.

You still don't know what's behind them and how much space is on either side of the room or above or below.
To assume that there is no other area that manufacturing can take place would be foolhardy.

You're just not willing to accept being wrong. Blinders is ignoring the obvious, per the above subspace link. There is nothing about this theory that is fact, so I cannot possibly be blind to it.

I'm not willing to accept anything you say without proof.

Brody's guess is a proper hypothesis based on available data. He'd know better than you or I.

All we know is his hypothesis. Nobody else confirmed it.

As stated way at the beginning of this mess, your idea was that the seeders docked occasionally to transfer information because Destiny couldn't hold it all. You only came up with the other ideas after that was shot down.

Actually, there has never been proof that Destiny is holding all data from the beginning. Especially since any data on the Galaxies closest to Milky Way would be over million years old. As I theorized, trying to create a data storage system for infinity would be impossible.

[SciFiRick]

Hello Everyone,

New guy here on the boards, so don't kill me if this theory has already been stated.

Awakening was a good episode.

I think the Aliens are like worker bees and they are there to construct and deliver the Stargates to planets. They were in cryo sleep because the ship completed its run of deliveries. I also think Destiny was meant to meet up with the ship and dock with it to replenish itself. When the aliens woke up and saw the humans they assumed they had took control of destiny and was now trying to sap all their power and leave them stuck. They stunned all the humans and tried to get the power they where giving back. They obviously are really familiar with the ships controls which leads me to believe they have ties to the ancients. Now this is all my theories and it might pan out and it might not.

Now to Rush. I have no idea why he is keeping the bridge a secret when he has said it himself that Destiny was meant to be run by a crew and not by one person. When young finds out that he has had total control of the ship for a while and has kept it a secret he will try and Kill him again.

Well that is all I have for now I will be looking forward to posting more about the future episodes

Welcome! Good thoughts. If the seeder ship was through with it's run of planting stargates then why did we see a line of unfinished gates? Rest Period? Would it make sense that there wouldn't be any gates on the line if they were done? Gotta believe they either had a problem or it was a scheduled stop. Of course, the Destiny crew are descendants of the Ancients so the aliens may not have know from the start that they were not the Ancients. This is all assuming that the aliens were "worker bees" for the Ancients. Telford can tell Destiny next they meet up.

[SciFiRick]

originally posted by Misfits

Really? You just said that?
You would have to presume that they intended to dial to Destiny from Earth. probably from Atlantis.

Atlantis is fully powered by 3 ZPMs. We know 1 ZPM has more than enough power to connect to the next galaxy, Maybe 3 ZPMs are enough to connect to Destiny or the could wire together as many as necessary to meet the power requirement.

Atlantis received two extra ZPM's from Todd in order for Atlantis to activate the wormhole drive to Earth and when Atlantis landed on Earth they still had the power from the 3 ZPM's so I think it is safe to say that the Icarus planet would not have been necessary for the power needed to dial the 9th chevron if Atlantis was capable.

[morbosfist]

So, you're taking the visual from an alien ship showing a set of gates at the edge of the galaxy to what you claim are facts. I don't think so.
You would have to ascertain that the Aliens knew where all the gates are actually located. We know Destiny knows. But you're making a leap that the Aliens knew, I see. That makes sense to you?

Please check back to the picture which shows the line of gates. You'll notice that it's on Destiny, not the alien ship. Rush constructed it from Destiny's database.

The whole 'Darkness/Light' was proof that Rush didn't know.
If he knew, the Episodes wouldn't need to happen.

Just look at 'Earth'. ho-hum. Destiny is re-fueling.
The reason why everybody panicked in 'Darkness/Light' is because they didn't know, and their theories were wrong.
Brody's theory about the seeder ship could be just as wrong.

Everyone panicked in the two-parter because they logically took colliding with a star as bad. Brody's determination of the ship's condition (BRODY: One of many travelling well ahead of Destiny, seeding planets with Stargates, gathering information. This one obviously experienced some sort of system failure, allowing us to catch up with it.) is not made with uncertainty. He clearly knows they weren't supposed to catch up.

You're sending the seeder ships into unknown space. Once you send it, that's it. They will never be used again.
Why would you have to disassemble large portions of the ship? They're terminals.

The docking port isn't, and that's a big piece of the ship. You keep failing to understand a simple fact: just because something is automated does not mean you design it to be completely impossible to work with for the builders. Unmanned drones are designed to be serviced, reprogrammed, and so on. This ship is the same deal only a lot bigger and thus in need of ways to repair or service areas deep inside the vessel. If the US military decided to make a fully automatic aircraft carrier, you could count on there being a way to manually control it.

I'm theorizing based on what we have seen so far. That's all I'm doing. And the events fit much better under my theory. that's all.
You state your arguments as if you have proof that they are facts.
Fine, prove it, show me the evidence.

Only in your opinion. Your theory doesn't hold water from what we know to be true. Fact is, the characters know this was not supposed to happen. They are in a better position to know, yet your only proof is to deny them.

You still don't know what's behind them and how much space is on either side of the room or above or below.
To assume that there is no other area that manufacturing can take place would be foolhardy.

It's a giant factory, what you see is what you get. But, since you need scale:

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=901&pos=907

The rear-center section with the windows is the gate room. Notice how wide it is compared to the bow.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=938&pos=983

There's the seeder, which has a center section just as wide as the bow.

I'm not willing to accept anything you say without proof.

The proof is already there. Mallozzi has stated it outright. You deny his claims. The character state it. You deny their claims. Who's wearing the blinders?

All we know is his hypothesis. Nobody else confirmed it.

Denying it to suit your theory doesn't work unless you can prove the contrary.

Actually, there has never been proof that Destiny is holding all data from the beginning. Especially since any data on the Galaxies closest to Milky Way would be over million years old. As I theorized, trying to create a data storage system for infinity would be impossible.

Neither is there any proof that it isn't. Burden of proof lies on you here. If you want to make claims, you have to back them up.

[Misfits]

Atlantis received two extra ZPM's from Todd in order for Atlantis to activate the wormhole drive to Earth and when Atlantis landed on Earth they still had the power from the 3 ZPM's so I think it is safe to say that the Icarus planet would not have been necessary for the power needed to dial the 9th chevron if Atlantis was capable.

I would think dialing the 9th chevron address was something Ancients were planing to do from Atlantis.

Even if needed, I'm sure the Ancients would have been able to add however many more ZPM's in order to make it possible.

[Misfits]

Please check back to the picture which shows the line of gates. You'll notice that it's on Destiny, not the alien ship. Rush constructed it from Destiny's database.

You mentioned the Eli sequence. However, let's look at your instance.

CONTROL INTERFACE ROOM. Young has joined Rush and they are looking at the holoscreen.
RUSH: When I was left behind on that planet with the crashed alien ship ...
YOUNG: I remember.
RUSH: Yeah, well, one of the things I saw there appeared to be a map of this galaxy, including the Stargates.
YOUNG: And?
RUSH: Well, Mr. Brody and myself have been working on our own map, based on our own records of where Destiny has been thus far.
YOUNG: I thought Destiny had a map of where it's been.
RUSH: Yeah, but we're trying to create a clearer picture of the entire galaxy where ...

This dialogue would imply that the map they concocted was based only on the planets the crew visited.

From the end of 'Human', Destiny didn't stop until in 'Lost' when Rush left with Lt. James and other soldiers to find Scott, Greer, Eli, and Cloe.

Nicholas Rush and Team James come through a Stargate and find themselves on a planet with several tall columns of crystals growing nearby. The sky is full of storm clouds lit from behind by the sun (or possibly a bright moon) and, with no nearby trees or hills to obscure the view, the vista is splendidly dramatic. As the team walks down the ramp, the Gate closes behind them.
JAMES: It's beautiful. Not that I'd wanna be stuck here for a long time but it is an incredible sight to see.
(She collects the Kino and turns to Rush who is looking at his remote.)
RUSH (distractedly): Yes.
JAMES: This is our tenth planet. We've less than an hour and a half left.
RUSH (still typing): This is a lot more complicated than I'd anticipated. Who would have guessed that Destiny had skipped over so many planets with Gates on?
JAMES: Getting back should be so much quicker, though.
RUSH: Yes.
JAMES: Well, we have extra Kinos and a remote. Maybe it's time we split up, cover more planets.
RUSH: Agreed.
JAMES: We're gonna find them. We just need a bit of luck.
RUSH: I'm afraid I don't believe in that.
(He continues typing on his remote.)
JAMES: So, you'll take one team and I'll take the other?
(Without replying, Rush turns back to the Gate and starts to dial it. James rolls her eyes.)

If Rush had used Destiny database to plot that map in Destiny, he would have known how many planets there would be before they reached the planet Greer was on.
This dialogue would further give credence that the holo map Rush constructed was only based on the gated planets the crew had visited.
Lt. James states that this is the 10th planet they visited and they still didn't reach Greer.
So, now you have to go back and look at that holo map and insert 10+ dots between the dots. and you wouldn't know how far those dots would be from the Destiny course.
With this info, all of sudden that map doesn't look as clear indication of the galaxy, does it?

Everyone panicked in the two-parter because they logically took colliding with a star as bad. Brody's determination of the ship's condition (BRODY: One of many travelling well ahead of Destiny, seeding planets with Stargates, gathering information. This one obviously experienced some sort of system failure, allowing us to catch up with it.) is not made with uncertainty. He clearly knows they weren't supposed to catch up.

Everyone panicked because they lacked one crucial piece of into. Destiny re-fueled with Solar energy.
The assertion Brody makes about the seeder ship could be just as faulty.

The docking port isn't, and that's a big piece of the ship. You keep failing to understand a simple fact: just because something is automated does not mean you design it to be completely impossible to work with for the builders. Unmanned drones are designed to be serviced, reprogrammed, and so on. This ship is the same deal only a lot bigger and thus in need of ways to repair or service areas deep inside the vessel. If the US military decided to make a fully automatic aircraft carrier, you could count on there being a way to manually control it.

Again, if you'll never use it, they wouldn't build it.

Only in your opinion. Your theory doesn't hold water from what we know to be true. Fact is, the characters know this was not supposed to happen. They are in a better position to know, yet your only proof is to deny them.

Just like 'Darkness/Light'. They theorized wrong.

It's a giant factory, what you see is what you get. But, since you need scale:

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=901&pos=907

The rear-center section with the windows is the gate room. Notice how wide it is compared to the bow.

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/dis...um=938&pos=983

There's the seeder, which has a center section just as wide as the bow.

You know, I just keep on looking, and I still don't see it. The width, the height, they don't fit with your assessment.

The proof is already there. Mallozzi has stated it outright. You deny his claims. The character state it. You deny their claims. Who's wearing the blinders?

When I see proof, I'll accept it. not till then.

Denying it to suit your theory doesn't work unless you can prove the contrary.

Common sense tells me your assertions don't fit.

Neither is there any proof that it isn't. Burden of proof lies on you here. If you want to make claims, you have to back them up.

My proof is common sense.
If you were going to set this project in motion, constructing a data storage system that will contain all data Destiny would gather for the Universe, which is infinite, would be impossible.
And the data for the galaxies closest to Milky Way would also be the oldest.

[morbosfist]

You mentioned the Eli sequence. However, let's look at your instance.

This dialogue would imply that the map they concocted was based only on the planets the crew visited.

From the end of 'Human', Destiny didn't stop until in 'Lost' when Rush left with Lt. James and other soldiers to find Scott, Greer, Eli, and Cloe.

If Rush had used Destiny database to plot that map in Destiny, he would have known how many planets there would be before they reached the planet Greer was on.
This dialogue would further give credence that the holo map Rush constructed was only based on the gated planets the crew had visited.
Lt. James states that this is the 10th planet they visited and they still didn't reach Greer.
So, now you have to go back and look at that holo map and insert 10+ dots between the dots. and you wouldn't know how far those dots would be from the Destiny course.
With this info, all of sudden that map doesn't look as clear indication of the galaxy, does it?

Nice try, but you're overlooking several key facts. One, they had to travel back through, as you point out, at least ten different gates. If the map were based on the planets they had visited, it would not terminate at the edge of the galaxy. It would terminate inside it. Furthermore, they could have dialled to the "Lost" planet directly, instead of leapfrogging. Two, Rush's statement does not indicate a lack of knowledge, only a statement of fact and annoyance. He obviously knows which way he's going, unlike Eli. Three, it's based on Destiny's records.

RUSH: Well, Mr. Brody and myself have been working on our own map, based on our own records of where Destiny has been thus far.

Unless Rush and Brody are spectacular stellar cartographers, they would need to consult Destiny's database, which has list of every planet in the galaxy.

Everyone panicked because they lacked one crucial piece of into. Destiny re-fueled with Solar energy.
The assertion Brody makes about the seeder ship could be just as faulty.

Failure in one area does not equal failure in another. You're using one situation to try and discredit another when the circumstances are different.

Again, if you'll never use it, they wouldn't build it.

As I keep saying, they would use it. They'd use it when they were building it, because you cannot build a ship that large and not have a way to make adjustments internally or pilot it manually.

Just like 'Darkness/Light'. They theorized wrong.

So you say, you have no proof.

You know, I just keep on looking, and I still don't see it. The width, the height, they don't fit with your assessment.

Then look harder, and check the rest of the gallery. The ships are the same width.

When I see proof, I'll accept it. not till then.

Then we might as well drop this.

Common sense tells me your assertions don't fit.

My proof is common sense.
If you were going to set this project in motion, constructing a data storage system that will contain all data Destiny would gather for the Universe, which is infinite, would be impossible.
And the data for the galaxies closest to Milky Way would also be the oldest.

Your common sense makes no sense. The universe is infinite but the matter in it is not, nor is Destiny exploring the entire thing. The Ancients also have data storage beyond anything humans or even Asgard can comprehend.

[Misfits]

Nice try, but you're overlooking several key facts. One, they had to travel back through, as you point out, at least ten different gates. If the map were based on the planets they had visited, it would not terminate at the edge of the galaxy. It would terminate inside it. Furthermore, they could have dialled to the "Lost" planet directly, instead of leapfrogging. Two, Rush's statement does not indicate a lack of knowledge, only a statement of fact and annoyance. He obviously knows which way he's going, unlike Eli. Three, it's based on Destiny's records.

One, the holo map clearly shows dots within the Galaxy edge.
And we don't know what scale they where looking at it.
Presuming that they would have the gate address that Greer was left at, if they could dial directly, they would have. If fact, I would argue that Rush would have taken the shortest route.
Two, Rush's statement does indicate the lack of knowledge. If he had known, he would know exactly how many planets they would have to travel through to get there.

RUSH: Well, Mr. Brody and myself have been working on our own map, based on our own records of where Destiny has been thus far.

Unless Rush and Brody are spectacular stellar cartographers, they would need to consult Destiny's database, which has list of every planet in the galaxy.

Three, the most likely scenario would be that they would outline the shape of the galaxy, and plug in the gate address, and Destiny would just place a dot in the galaxy to indicate it's location.
Obviously they didn't indicate all of the gated planets or Rush would have known the number of planets between where they started and they wanted to go.

Failure in one area does not equal failure in another. You're using one situation to try and discredit another when the circumstances are different.

I'm saying that if they were wrong once, they could be wrong again.

As I keep saying, they would use it. They'd use it when they were building it, because you cannot build a ship that large and not have a way to make adjustments internally or pilot it manually.

And as I keep on saying, if they won't use it anymore. there's no reason to build it.
If they build it, they plan to use it again.

So you say, you have no proof.

The 'Darkness/Light' episodes were based on their wrong theory about Destiny's course and purpose with the star.
The episodes are proof.

Then look harder, and check the rest of the gallery. The ships are the same width.

I don't disagree that the ships are of same width. In fact, that would only strengthen my point. There's a lot more room in the ship and we have no idea what they're used for.

Originally Posted by Misfits
When I see proof, I'll accept it. not till then.

Then we might as well drop this.

Thank you for admitting that you don't have proof to back up your claims.

Your common sense makes no sense. The universe is infinite but the matter in it is not, nor is Destiny exploring the entire thing. The Ancients also have data storage beyond anything humans or even Asgard can comprehend.

Of course common sense makes no sense to you. You have shown that you don't have common sense.