them ancient stones...

[knowles2]

We cannot be entirely sure that there is no protocol to prevent death in the Ancient version of the device.

The one we are using on the destiny is incomplete, we only got the stones. But not the ancient base station, which could be the bit of the technology which is design to prevent . accidents and deaths. Instead we got our own home built version which bound to have left out a few of the safety protocols or bit and pieces of code that we could not figure out or get to work reliable with other bits of code or to run other bits on code on our hardware. I suspect the hardware and software we are running on is a heavily striped down version on what ever the ancients use.

I suspect it more likely to be dodgy engineering by the SGC reverse engineering department rather than a Ancient design flaw.
After all how many safety features does the Stargate has built into it. It was probably a rush job anyway, something specific for the Icarus project to allow them to communicate where ever it sent them, an something that was put together as quickly and as cheaply.

We also known that there is some residual connection between the two inhabited bodies. ever since we first found the stones.

[thekillman]

that doc said that, theoretically, a fully healthy person can survive.


but yea, considering these things are COMMUNICATIONS DEVICES, their use is communication. your cell phone is designed to communicate. it's assumed you use it responsibly, IE not phoning and driving. phoning while driving can kill you.


it's a matter of responsibility and common sense. while it seems like a major flaw, basically in the Ancient period, there wasn't a whole lot to kill you



add to that, that reviving one person causes the revival of both, and since the ancients invented the Telchak device, that's not a problem

[Hagazussa]

My main problem with the Ancient stones, which might have been interesting pieces of tech. That they are dangerous and can cause Matrix style death I think only flavor it, I like mysterious old tech in series which have a drawback or danger to using them. My main problem with them is that people change bodies and then go on to having sex with others in their borrowed bodies left and right, and no one at all seam to mind. It is like.

"I took you body for a spin."
"Ok."
"Then I had sex with a person you do not know, and for all I know you can now be pregnant or have a STD."
"Ok I hope you enjoyed yourself."

They could have done so much more with this technology, however why oh why do no one mind having their bodies end up in the beds of people they do not know or even despise even if their minds are elsewhere?

Now as for feedback. To my mind if your mind and soul is occupying a body that then dies, especially if it dies violently it would be natural that that would be an enormous trauma. In effect you die as your mind completely controls that body. Whatever or not that should kill you I do not know, but that it would be dangerous definitely. I am looking at this from a psychological point of view, so even if all you do is snap back to your own body then that would still be a shock.

That being said, imagine two electrical devices which are linked up and one have a overload, there is a good chance the overload in one would cause damage to the other. Now there is tech for about anything in Stargate so surly there have to be ways to prevent some of the danger, and for all we know the Ancients had such means, however that do not mean the characters in SGU have figured out how to use those safety measures yet.

[D Toccs]

We cannot be entirely sure that there is no protocol to prevent death in the Ancient version of the device.

The one we are using on the destiny is incomplete, we only got the stones. But not the ancient base station, which could be the bit of the technology which is design to prevent . accidents and deaths. Instead we got our own home built version which bound to have left out a few of the safety protocols or bit and pieces of code that we could not figure out or get to work reliable with other bits of code or to run other bits on code on our hardware. I suspect the hardware and software we are running on is a heavily striped down version on what ever the ancients use.

I suspect it more likely to be dodgy engineering by the SGC reverse engineering department rather than a Ancient design flaw.
After all how many safety features does the Stargate has built into it. It was probably a rush job anyway, something specific for the Icarus project to allow them to communicate where ever it sent them, an something that was put together as quickly and as cheaply.

We also known that there is some residual connection between the two inhabited bodies. ever since we first found the stones.

I like your theory. I hadn't taken into account that we are only using half the device and something the SGC jury rigged to serve as the other half. Very good point.

[D Toccs]

Now as for feedback. To my mind if your mind and soul is occupying a body that then dies, especially if it dies violently it would be natural that that would be an enormous trauma. In effect you die as your mind completely controls that body. Whatever or not that should kill you I do not know, but that it would be dangerous definitely. I am looking at this from a psychological point of view, so even if all you do is snap back to your own body then that would still be a shock.

I think you have misunderstood what we're saying. No one is suggesting that the persons mind should "snap back to it's original body". What we are saying is that if while swapped one person and the mind in that body should die, why would the other person and the mind in their body die also.

[s09119]

Why does it have to be a poor design...? For all we know, there's just no way around that particular aspect of the technology. We're talking about swapping minds here.

[Tajis]

I would say it's far more likely that it isn't a design oversight as much as it is an intentional 'feature'. It ties the fate of the two body-switchers, so that one can't take overly dangerous abuse of the other body. If you do something to abuse the connection (that can't be treated with advanced medical technology like a STD, etc), that will be terminal immediately, you die as well.

Alternatively, they 'did' evolve the ability to heal others with a touch and even revive the recently dead all Nox style, so it might not have been as big of an issue when actual Ancients were using the technology. Even before that they had devices like the healing cube (designed for their physiology) and who knows what else?

I'd cite it as a feature due to Daniel and Vala's little trip to the Ori galaxy and what happened to them. This was all on the officially branded Ancient version of the device and not our emulator.

[morbosfist]

Or maybe the Ancients, with their superior mental powers, could have just shut it off at will.

[garhkal]

However my theory is wrong because when Young suffocated Telford in Rush's body, Rush who was in Telford's body began having seizures as well. Both of those men I would consider to be fit and healthy and yet the death of one was effecting the other.

So back to square one in that there is no safety protocol for the "what if one of them dies?" scenario.

You also forget Vala/Daniel burning in Celestus, while their bodies here on earth suffered/died.
I think that statement by the scientist of "MAybe it doesn't work like that" was just his wishful thinking.
As from what we have seen/witnessed, it DOES.

We cannot be entirely sure that there is no protocol to prevent death in the Ancient version of the device.

Then why did daniel/vala suffer (vala suffered twice) when they conencted to the device in the Ori galaxy (season 9 sg1)..??

Or maybe the Ancients, with their superior mental powers, could have just shut it off at will.

Or caused the 'death effect" to not power its way through the connection.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

I loved the argument at the start of the thread, its like hammer no like a cell phone. Serious LOLage (yes I did use the word LOLage ).

[Rylor]

My money is on "because it was intended to be used by Ancients". We know that the Repository of Knowledge and the Neural Interface Chair on Destiny cause severe brain damage (at least it did before it was modified by Rush and Brody), but the Writers stated that it poses no danger to Ancients because of their advanced physiology.

[Hagazussa]

I think you have misunderstood what we're saying. No one is suggesting that the persons mind should "snap back to it's original body". What we are saying is that if while swapped one person and the mind in that body should die, why would the other person and the mind in their body die also.

Ok I misunderstood you, sorry. I do not know why the other person would die, perhaps a mind can not exist without it's body or vice versa, or perhaps the reason is the same as why a Wraith trapped on a planet alone for 10 000 years speak perfect English and that reason is plot convenience.

[D Toccs]

You also forget Vala/Daniel burning in Celestus, while their bodies here on earth suffered/died.
I think that statement by the scientist of "MAybe it doesn't work like that" was just his wishful thinking.
As from what we have seen/witnessed, it DOES.



Then why did daniel/vala suffer (vala suffered twice) when they conencted to the device in the Ori galaxy (season 9 sg1)..??



Or caused the 'death effect" to not power its way through the connection.

Well the Daniel and Vala incident is kinda different from all the other times the stones have been used. When Vala and Daniel swapped with Herod and Sallis, for some reason Herod and Sallis did not swap with them.
So I deliberately chose not to use that example because the Rush/Telford was a normal mind swap and proved the point without having to wonder about whether the situation was different.

[zainea13]

Well, I think the writers messed up the comm stones. Like, with daniel and vala, they swapped because stones were tagged with peoples identity. Which also, how do the stones know who to switch with? I'm sure there are other stones in the galaxy that people have mistakenly touched. Why not switch with them.

The communication stones are really just a big mess. But we might find out more about them in this week's episode

[Rylor]

Well the Daniel and Vala incident is kinda different from all the other times the stones have been used. When Vala and Daniel swapped with Herod and Sallis, for some reason Herod and Sallis did not swap with them.
So I deliberately chose not to use that example because the Rush/Telford was a normal mind swap and proved the point without having to wonder about whether the situation was different.

It was my impression Daniel and Vala did not switch fully because of the distance to the Ori galaxy and because there was no second communication device at the other end. When they briefly engaged it Daniel's and Vala's bodies woke up. In all other cases there was either a second device or the distance was rather short.