I'm surprised no one mentioned the juxtaposition of Young nearly strangling the LA guy in the hold and suffocating Riley. He looked really bewildered when he realized what he was doing in the hold, combined with the look on his face when Riley passed on. I wouldn't want to be Young right now.
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Ethically charged events from "Aftermath"
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Originally posted by Lahela View PostNo, legally, is was murder, in countries that do not allow euthanasia. The ethics is the point of debate.
When a mission goes south and a crew member dies, who's liable? Act of God? Or some negligence liability in there? Liable to whom? The victims family? How exactly would payment be made? Or punishment carried out? They're already prisoners of sorts. They might be getting paid back on earth, but it's not like that's doing them any good.
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Originally posted by Ser Scot A Ellison View PostOkay, did Young do the right thing? I think he did what had to be done and didn't involve anyone else because he didn't want to create a problem. Bringing others in, particularly Scott, could have been problematic. I certainly understand Reily didn't want to die slowly alone in the shuttle craft.
I also think it took a great deal of courage and intestinal fortitude for Young to step up and do what he did for Reily.
Originally posted by Ser Scot A Ellison View PostRush, on the other hand, is screwing the pooch. Attempting to run Destiny by himself without assistance is not going to work. Reily is dead because of Rush's poor decision making. This is the biggest mistake Rush has made since coming onboard, in my opinion, because it resulted in Reily's death. While I think he's right that Young is not stable, and appears to be drinking on top of everything else, Rush has to bring in the rest of the crew. He'll never be able to run all the systems on his own.
How long do you think it will take before Rush tells someone about the Bridge or someone finds out where Rush has been disappearing off to?
And considering that TJ could have gated back to the Destiny and gotten any equipment she needed for an amputation I fail to see how your point, however spurious, about the lack of equipment is relevant?
I'm honestly surprised no one has tried to call Young a murderer for what he did with Riley, just because I know how easily some people leap to find fault in what Young does every week. The episode just aired though, so I can wait
I'm not sure what to make of Rush's actions. Negligible, arrogant at worst, but I think he believe what he's doing is the for the greater good. In hindsight sending them down to the planet was a mistake, but had the gamble paid off and they got the supplies they needed then it would have been a different matter. He has his flaws, but at least he's decisive.
I do believe that not telling the rest of the crew about the bridge is wrong though, he has no right to control their fate, especially without their knowing so.
But - how he did it was a horrible. Give up a bullet to make it quick and painless. Young would look better in my eyes had he done that.
Destiny was fitted for extended voyage and logically this accommodation would have been made for her crew; extensive trauma type equipment, advanced medical operating theaters, etc. Obviously not "Atlantis grade" but more advanced than anything the team would have at their immediate disposal (brought with them).
I'm wondering who Riley though was going to blame Young for taking his life. Given the options of slowly dying alone on the shuttle, or dying relatively painlessly with the others still there, I would probably have made the same decision, only I'd ask to be shot because it would be over quickly. TJ and the others had to know that realistically there was no way that Riley was going to survive
I'm surprised no one mentioned the juxtaposition of Young nearly strangling the LA guy in the hold and suffocating Riley. He looked really bewildered when he realized what he was doing in the hold, combined with the look on his face when Riley passed on. I wouldn't want to be Young right now.
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Originally posted by Shadow_7 View PostThere in lies the problem with legally. In what country did the murder take place? To which laws are the crew of Destiny subject? The point of departure was a planet other than earth. I doubt it applied for statehood like there rest of the union. The point of origin was under military control, are all of the Icarus people subject to the MCOJ? At which point mutiny is treason. The maximum punishment of which is death under the MCOJ. What about the non-earth new comers? POW's or citizens of different sort?
When a mission goes south and a crew member dies, who's liable? Act of God? Or some negligence liability in there? Liable to whom? The victims family? How exactly would payment be made? Or punishment carried out? They're already prisoners of sorts. They might be getting paid back on earth, but it's not like that's doing them any good.
Personally, I think Young did the right thing, ethically, and I think any law that would stop him from doing it was enacted by a complete ass. But that's my personal ethics.sigpic
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Shadow_7
Originally posted by Shadow_7 View PostThere in lies the problem with legally. In what country did the murder take place? To which laws are the crew of Destiny subject? The point of departure was a planet other than earth. I doubt it applied for statehood like there rest of the union. The point of origin was under military control, are all of the Icarus people subject to the MCOJ? At which point mutiny is treason. The maximum punishment of which is death under the MCOJ. What about the non-earth new comers? POW's or citizens of different sort?
When a mission goes south and a crew member dies, who's liable? Act of God? Or some negligence liability in there? Liable to whom? The victims family? How exactly would payment be made? Or punishment carried out? They're already prisoners of sorts. They might be getting paid back on earth, but it's not like that's doing them any good.All plot and no character makes for a dull story... All plot and no character makes for a dull story... All plot and no character makes for a dull story... All plot and no character makes for a dull story...
"Scott isn't out. Actually, he'll probably soon get back in, then out, then in, then out, then in, with rhythm and stamina." reddevil 4/22/2010
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FA,
What does the UCMJ say about euthanasia if anything?All plot and no character makes for a dull story... All plot and no character makes for a dull story... All plot and no character makes for a dull story... All plot and no character makes for a dull story...
"Scott isn't out. Actually, he'll probably soon get back in, then out, then in, then out, then in, with rhythm and stamina." reddevil 4/22/2010
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Originally posted by Ser Scot A Ellison View PostFA,
What does the UCMJ say about euthanasia if anything?
For example, I'm pretty sure there isn't a specific UCMJ statute concerning paedophilia but if one were to commit a paedophilic act while in the employ of a U.S. armed forces, the U.S. would court marshall your tuchas and/or extradite you to face criminal court.
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Originally posted by KEK View PostAre you serious? Do you realise the kind of trauma that type of neck break would cause? His neck would be black and blue. Suffocation leaves no trace, not without an autopsy anyway.
I think Riley was just scared to die alone so he played up the pain to get Young to do it. If you remember of a few minutes before Young showed up he said there was no pain, he couldn't feel anything. People who are claiming that it is murder and that it never happens should research the practice of terminal sedation or the double-effect principle. Most medical groups and societies agree that performing an action that has the effect of alleviating pain and suffering is ethically justified even if it hastens the persons death. That happens in medicine and the military (hell it happens in Saving Private Ryan, when the medic is shot and they give him an over-dose of morphine to alleviate his pain and it kills him) When a cancer patient is barely breathing, doctors and families know that opioids will even further suppress their breathing, but most families will choose for their love one to be comfortable in death rather than screaming and possibly alive for a little while longer.
Young was ethically right in what he did but he should have used a gun as it would have been much more humane.
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Originally posted by Lahela View PostPersonally, I think Young did the right thing, ethically, and I think any law that would stop him from doing it was enacted by a complete ass. But that's my personal ethics.
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Originally posted by Descended View Post
Young was ethically right in what he did but he should have used a gun as it would have been much more humane.
As someone else has pointed out, this episode really was about Young and Rush, not Riley's death. Whether this worked out in the end remains to be seen. I think it depends somewhat on how you view Young. For those that really did not get into this show or episode, and thought that Riley was the only character of interest, then this episode was a failure to them. Opposite that the element succeeded as it provided a chance in the story for both characters to face the consequences of their actions. Suffice to say this will not be the last of this issue, I am sure this will linger on for a few episodes at least.
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Originally posted by Lahela View PostNo, legally, is was murder, in countries that do not allow euthanasia. The ethics is the point of debate.
Originally posted by Shadow_7 View PostAnd the warden in charge of death row gets brought up on murder charges all the time. NOT. Or our soldiers abroad killing all those combatants. It's a line, and it's an act.
Originally posted by Shadow_7 View PostBut every time you eat a salad, you killed a plant. How many innocent bugs are splatted on your windshield? What? Did I just see you swat a mosquito? What exactly do you intend to do with those chickens in your yard?
We just tend to think a little more about human life most of the time.
Originally posted by Shadow_7 View PostWhen a mission goes south and a crew member dies, who's liable? Act of God? Or some negligence liability in there?
Originally posted by Lahela View PostThe ethics of euthanasia form the basis for any discussion on its legality because any political stance is based entirely on personal ethics.
Originally posted by Lahela View PostPersonally, I think Young did the right thing, ethically, and I think any law that would stop him from doing it was enacted by a complete ass. But that's my personal ethics.There is only one thing we can ever truly control: whether we are good, or evil.
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