Ethically charged events from "Aftermath"

[Shadow_7]

They were not drafted, as they have no miltary training or rank or getting the benefits as Military personal.

For a lot of them, that would mean a pay cut. And yes they were. Or will be. I'm sure that at some point in the series, every single crew member (left alive) is going to have to yield a weapon. And probably use it. The military is only good up until the point they get themselves killed. And without the reinforcement opportunity, tag, you're it.

[tinerin]

For a lot of them, that would mean a pay cut. And yes they were. Or will be. I'm sure that at some point in the series, every single crew member (left alive) is going to have to yield a weapon. And probably use it. The military is only good up until the point they get themselves killed. And without the reinforcement opportunity, tag, you're it.

No, they haven't been drafted. If they were drafted then they would all be military and there would be no distinguishing between civilian and military personnel, especially by any of the officers. Drafting in the US requires Congress to pass legislation that the President must sign into law. A draft is also required to be a random selection process and women are exempt from being drafted in the US. Not to mention that non-US citizens, for what should be very obvious international law reasons, cannot be drafted into the US military.

[Rudy Pena]

They have not been drafted in any way yet, so therefore they are not in the US Military. Trust me, I know...Im in the US Military, I see alot of Government Contractors and work with them but they are not US Military and do not fall under the UCMJ.

[morbosfist]

As Colonel Young so helpfully points out in "Subversion": "Yes, and we're both a billion light years away from the nearest disciplinary hearing, so, what?"

Ultimately, when you're this far away from civilization, there's just some points where you need to bend the rules. They still have a lone back to Earth, of course, but that's as far as it goes.

[Gollumpus]

I would have liked to have seen Rush involved in Riley's final moments. If it was Rush who had to suffocate Riley that would have been a big shock to his system. As it stands, he can know that all of it was his fault, but Riley's death wasn't as personal to Rush as it was to Young. Perhaps a personal "touch" on Rush's part would mean that in future he wouldn't be as cavalier with other peoples lives.

regards,
G.

[SciFiRick]

Until such time as said country starts shooting at you. At which point murder is legal. Note that shooting is a broader term than just bullets. Poisonous gas, IEDs, grenades, rocket launchers / RPG, butchers knife, apply under the rules of engagement. Unfortunately modern warfare takes place in a civilian jungle now. So civilian casualties are not only possible, but likely.

Bear in mind that we do have a draft over here. So from a certain point of view, the civilians on Destiny were DRAFTED when they boarded that ship. A draft does not require consent.

There are many definitions of "Draft" but the part that is referencing your opinion states (a selection or drawing of persons, by lot or otherwise, from the general body of the people for military service; levy; conscription. The persons so selected) and IMO the civilians that were on the Icarus planet were "selected" (and you can use the word drafted) for their expertise or support of the base except for visitors such as the Senator and his daughter. Once the base was attacked and the only seemingly way to safety was to go thru the gate. They became victims of circumstances. Not to say that they shouldn't band together as one.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Shadow_7,

For a lot of them, that would mean a pay cut. And yes they were. Or will be. I'm sure that at some point in the series, every single crew member (left alive) is going to have to yield a weapon. And probably use it. The military is only good up until the point they get themselves killed. And without the reinforcement opportunity, tag, you're it.

You're reaching now. There is absolutely nothing to indicate these civilians have been "drafted." Couple of points. First, women in the U.S. are not subject to the draft. Second, there are age limits on who may be drafted in the U.S. After age 30 I don't have to tell the Draft board where I live. After age 40 I'm no longer subject to the draft. Finally, you don't get drafted into the Air Force or the Marines. Those forces are volunteer and have always been all volunteer. If these people were drafted they'd be considered U.S. Army for which there are no officers or NCOs on board.

Therefore, while, theoretically, they could be drafted, many would be exempt and it would create more problems than it would solve.

Morbo,

So, Young is a military dictator ruling arbitrarily at the point of a gun? Isn't that exactly what Wray and Rush were accusing him of being in "Divided"?

[morbosfist]

So, Young is a military dictator ruling arbitrarily at the point of a gun? Isn't that exactly what Wray and Rush were accusing him of being in "Divided"?

And yet again you jump to the worst possible extreme to deny an argument. It means nothing of the sort.

[Rudy Pena]

I agree with Ser Scot A Ellison.

Shadow_7,



You're reaching now. There is absolutely nothing to indicate these civilians have been "drafted." Couple of points. First, women in the U.S. are not subject to the draft. Second, there are age limits on who may be drafted in the U.S. After age 30 I don't have to tell the Draft board where I live. After age 40 I'm no longer subject to the draft. Finally, you don't get drafted into the Air Force or the Marines. Those forces are volunteer and have always been all volunteer. If these people were drafted they'd be considered U.S. Army for which there are no officers or NCOs on board.

Therefore, while, theoretically, they could be drafted, many would be exempt and it would create more problems than it would solve.

Morbo,

So, Young is a military dictator ruling arbitrarily at the point of a gun? Isn't that exactly what Wray and Rush were accusing him of being in "Divided"?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

morbo,

As Colonel Young so helpfully points out in "Subversion": "Yes, and we're both a billion light years away from the nearest disciplinary hearing, so, what?"

Ultimately, when you're this far away from civilization, there's just some points where you need to bend the rules. They still have a lone back to Earth, of course, but that's as far as it goes.

Where else can you go with this quote. I like Young. I simply think he lets his emotions get the better of him, on a regular basis.

[morbosfist]

Where else can you go with this quote. I like Young. I simply think he lets his emotions get the better of him, on a regular basis.

Let's see: you can go with "dealing with the Alliance prisoners may require some mistreatment" and numerous other things. Like our arguments in the War thread, you always pick the worst possible interpretation. When has Young ever needed to rule by gunpoint?

[Confessor Rahl]

This is actually my favorite episode of the show so far due to so many different factors. To those saying amputation was an option, watch the show. You will realize given the circumstances that it never was an option. The moment between Young and Riley was extremely well done and very emotional for me, as was the conversation between TJ and Riley. Very revealing stuff. I have always had mixed feelings for both characters, but this was certainly an episode that won me points with both of them.

[squirrely1]

Yes very powerful episode for me as well ....probably the first one that made me cry....because is was just so controversial and brought on such a moral dilemma.

First off I agree with all the people here that Riley was just too badly injured for them to be able to successfully try and amputate his legs. They could barely move the console off of him without him screaming in agony and to have them go through that as well as an amputation would have surely put him in shock not to mention the blood loss involved I just don't see it as a viable solution given their situation. And time was such a factor in all of this remember.

What I felt upset about was that they did not bring his body back to the Destiny with them....to give him a proper burial. That concerned me Even if a proper burial is to be jettisoned out into space....at least they could have had a ceremony for him and allowed other crew members to say their goodbyes.

As far as who is to blame. I don't think it is anyone's fault persay.... Rush is being selfish and self serving true....but he is trying his level best to learn all he can about the Destiny in an attempts to gain full control so they may have a chance to get home. I think Rush struggles with his decisions internally and wants to do the right thing but then opts for the selfish act.

Young wasn't a murderer. He was trying to honor Riley's dying wish. I think this is going to haunt Young for a long time

As for Scott...he clearly wasn't at fault as many have mentioned he had no control over the ship. I'm just surprised not more people were injured

And on a side note.....what was the deal that there was no Chloe in this ep and even no mention of her? Did anyone else think that was odd?

[morbosfist]

Chloe just didn't fit in this plot. They could have worked her in when the shuttle crashed or had her show up when Destiny was able to dial back, but ultimately the plot was about how these people dealt with Riley's death. I think we haven't seen enough interaction between them to work her in.

[Azzers]

Let's see: you can go with "dealing with the Alliance prisoners may require some mistreatment" and numerous other things. Like our arguments in the War thread, you always pick the worst possible interpretation. When has Young ever needed to rule by gunpoint?

You have had arguments on the internet before right? We all go for the worst interpretation.

Just from this quote, obviously he needed to in "Divided" because the civilians basically asked the military to surrender their arms and the military said "no." I'm not saying I disagree with Young's actions there, but at that point he is certainly not ruling by deliberative discussion.

I've got not dog in this hunt though.

My opinion is that Young is hanging on by a thread, but he's had quite a bit of bad thrown at him. I hate to say this, but his job is only 20 times harder BECAUSE he has such subversive relationships with both Wray and Rush. And all three are culpable, it's not Young's problem alone.