'Water' (106) General Discussion

[Maxum]

I thought this was a great episode. I don't need explosions and ship wars and physical fighting in order to tell a story. I wasn't expecting to like this series because I was a big fan of SG-1 and a so-so fan of Stargate Atlantis. However, SGU is quickly becoming my second favorite (after SG-1).

I'm enjoying that there is not so much ha-ha look how funny we are. I think Atlantis had a lot of that, although I enjoyed the storytelling. I like the seriousness of this new series, and it's largely a character study. Some people can enjoy that and some can't.

This episode was good on two levels. It should how vital, imo, Young is to Destiny. Without him on board, there was a sense of a breakdown in order. I think TJ did a great job of showing that she can get the job done. However, I also noticed that Rush can control things more if Young is not on board. Second, I enjoy learning more and more about these characters. I find that Young, Eli, TJ, Rush, and Greer are my favorites. I don't really care for Scott and Chloe right now.

Overall, the episode was about throwing the characters into a dangerous situation, removing their commander, and then see how it goes. I like these kind of episodes. Considering that they are trapped on a ship moving through space, I'm sure there will be more of them, and that's okay by me.

[Quinn Mallory]

I get the sense that TPTB were trying to channel some of the magic of SG-1 season 1 Solitude to a degree (two main characters alone on ice...though they are not as cutoff). I thought this was a solid episode. We finally have some payoff of Benson taking extra ration from the pilot. TJ finally got to do something more. Lt. James and Chloe got a bit of interaction. The ambiguity of the alien's intentions is a good call. I look forward to the episode(s) that will deal with the inevitable civil unrest between the civilians and the militaries (in a realistic and less over the top aspect that what had happened on BSG).

[Coronach]

Perhaps so, but the way she is being portrayed is very two-dimensional and stereotypical for a woman. Your reasoning could be right, but we need to be *shown* this. That, is what I think you're missing, and what I'm going to repeat a few times.

I don't want to get into progressively longer quote-fests, so I'll just answer a few really basic things.

I totally agree with the above, I just think we don't need to expect to be shown it yet. Chloe just may not be at that point yet. I'm willing to accept that, especially given that what has been 5 episodes for us has been mere days for these characters.

As for calling Rush out, that was strictly emotional. He did nothing to kill her father. Her father chose that on his own. In fact, wasn't it Chloe who told him about the shuttle situation, as I recall? If so, *she* has more guilt killing him than Rush. Which makes her very immature in trying to blame someone else. Understandable, but immature. Eli is more mature at this moment.

Her calling him out was directly related to the previous conversation she had with Rush earlier in the episode, in which she says "You can't ask someone to sacrifice themselves, period." If she was selfish, she wouldn't have been so against Rush's plan to choose someone to die.

Furthermore, we see it in the most recent episode where she says "What is wrong with you?" to Rush, in response to Rush insinuating that Young should leave Scott behind and try to get as much water as possible back. Putting logic and practicality aside, this certainly shows that Chloe cares about people...though perhaps wasn't thinking about the ramifications of not having enough water.

I certainly don't think it's fair to absolutely label her as self-righteous and selfish, as I haven't seen anything to indicate this conclusively. I have no problem with her being labeled immature, however...as she is to an appreciable extent.

I'd really love to see something from Chloe. I hate standard female stereotypes. I really really really want to see some good from her. I hope she develops. I'm not bashing her because I hate her; I'm calling her, and the writers, out for short-changing her. I haven't yet seen much good

I think we differ in that I am not comfortable being upset with TPTB and a certain character when we only have 6 episodes to go off of. If things are still this way at the end of season 1, then I'll be more inclined to agree that TPTB are not doing the character justice.

I'll temper my statement as such, "If she doesn't grow much during this season, then I will stand by my statement that her death would do more for the growth of the crew, then her life has. If she does show enough character growth (and she needs to do it soon) that she becomes a positive force on the show, then I will be glad they didn't kill her."

I can accept this.

That's a false dichotomy. You can have characters that are on neither extreme(and the fact that you see Chloe as an extreme on the end shows that you see this). Eli and Rush are good examples, as are Volker and Brody. They aren't as smart or skilled as McKay or Carter, but occupy a sliding scale that's nowhere near the... unpleasantness/uselessness of Chloe.

But I don't think Chloe's on the other extreme. I can envision many different circumstances in which there is a character that is even more of an extreme than Chloe. And I'll even say that characters like Carter and McKay are not an extreme either.

Perhaps clarification is needed though. I only said that people whined about Carter and McKay due to their lack (i.e. not absence) of flaws, but complain when a character with substantially more flaws (i.e. not 100% flawed) comes along.

Simply because Chloe is closer to the one extreme does not mean she is the extreme.

[harakiri]

Hi all the Tau`ri.

SGU episode 6 "Water" was a good but slow episode. I don`t know if its just me,but I still expected more than the continue of "problem of the day" kinda episode. Good that it was some sort of an alien,and that the alien was from Air part 3 was nice,but then again,bringing that alien back should have been to give us more information about them/it. We don`t know much about them,except that its fan of water,maybe a fan of Scott and that they don't like getting shot at. I miss getting the reason why they was on the ship in the first place. (did I miss something maybe?) Only because of water? Well they now have more water than they could ever ask for.. or at least more ice.

So far I have seen every episode more than once,and some I have seen 3 times. Light I had to see twice with almost no time in between. I did see that this episode was to slow to do that,but I am going to watch it again soon tonight.

The bad thing in SGU after 6 episodes are:
It is to slow so far,so far one episode did give it all to me,except that there was no gate traveling in "Light" it was very good. Chloe and Scott,well its just odd that a person with so much regret towards making a girl pregnant has sex with two different girls in only a week or so. (I am not sure about time any longer),but you get my point. Chloe on the other hand is now using one man to sleep with,and and another one to relay on when she feels like it,its weird for Stargate,but if it gets toned down in the future episodes it would`nt concern me much. What does concern me is that Chloe is one of the main character,but so far without any other qualities than creating a love-drama between 4 person including herself,Scott,Eli and James.

Good things:
Greer is starting to become a good character,and that is good to see.
The character Rush is great. I like him,but do understand those that dislike him also. The actor RC is doing a very good job,and the writers has written that character very well,and found the perfect person to portray him.

I had a lot more to write,but I have to ask before I forget it: Is there anyone here that can explain what they saw on the preview for the next episode? I did not watch the episode on SyFy so I have not seen it. I know I can read some of it somewhere,but I think getting people (fans) to write what they did see from it is better than just reading comments made for the tv-guide or something.

Nice to read that more people starting to like SGU.

[Dain]

Well, I think this episode was a bit weak. The Sci-Fi part of the show was of high quality as always, with nice visual effects. Still, the drama felt very forced to me this week.

To paraphrase Eli: "Why the hell is everyone lying to each other on this ship?" It's going to get frustrating very fast if the main cast cannot stay honest towards each other even in life-and-death situations. Especially when they have absolutely nothing to gain from lying.

Greer apparantly is a nice big old hypocrite -loathing thiefs and non-military personnel with passion and yet breaking the rules himself at every opportunity. And Cloe better get something to do on this show quickly before her title as "the most useless person on board" becomes fully justified.

And, yet, no mention at all of anything similar for Senator Armstrong. The only thing mentioned thus far was (I think) when Camille wondered what was to be done with the Senator's body, and Young rather indifferently said "he's not going anywhere", and nothing more since then.

Is the Senator going to be a ghost that haunts the Destiny?

They cannot get to the senator, he is still locked into the damaged shuttle, which they cannot access without sacrificing another crewmember. Young wasn't indifferent, Wray only asked a really idiotic question.

Although they still could have had a funeral for him, I guess.

[jelgate]

I had a lot more to write,but I have to ask before I forget it: Is there anyone here that can explain what they saw on the preview for the next episode? I did not watch the episode on SyFy so I have not seen it. I know I can read some of it somewhere,but I think getting people (fans) to write what they did see from it is better than just reading comments made for the tv-guide or something.

Nice to read that more people starting to like SGU.

I can do better then tell you. I can show you

[jelgate]

To paraphrase Eli: "Why the hell is everyone lying to each other on this ship?" It's going to get frustrating very fast if the main cast cannot stay honest towards each other even in life-and-death situations. Especially when they have absolutely nothing to gain from lying.

I disagree their is nothing to gain from lying. The main mission was water. Without a distraction the water (ie the sand aliens) the mission will be achieved more efficently

Greer apparantly is a nice big old hypocrite -loathing thiefs and non-military personnel with passion and yet breaking the rules himself at every opportunity.

Huh?

And Cloe better get something to do on this show quickly before her title as "the most useless person on board" becomes fully justified.

Isn't her lack of nothing to do and her quest to find her worth in essence something to do?

[Ukko]

I disagree their is nothing to gain from lying. The main mission was water. Without a distraction the water (ie the sand aliens) the mission will be achieved more efficently


Huh?

Isn't her lack of nothing to do and her quest to find her worth in essence something to do?

I think he/she is reffering to Air pt1 (I think it was 1) when Greer took some kind of energy bars from the supplies.

But breaking the rules at every oppertunity, i dont know about that.

[EvilSpaceAlien]

I think he/she is reffering to Air pt1 (I think it was 1) when Greer took some kind of energy bars from the supplies.

But breaking the rules at every oppertunity, i dont know about that.

I can't remember Greer doing something like that. I thought it was only Spencer that did something like that.

[Spimman]

i never saw Greer do that.

[harakiri]

Thank you so much Jelgate.
Going to check that out. Did look for it earlier today,but did`nt find it. I`m probably just a bit blind...

[hedwig]

They cannot get to the senator, he is still locked into the damaged shuttle, which they cannot access without sacrificing another crewmember. Young wasn't indifferent, Wray only asked a really idiotic question.

Although they still could have had a funeral for him, I guess.

The question had nothing to do with what they should do with his body. I know they can't get to him. Though somebody could use one of those suits they just used in "Water" to retrieve him now without sacrificing anybody.

The question had to do with memorials and such. If they can have one for the deceased guy that the sand critters attacked, they should also have one for the Senator. He isn't exempt from memorials just because he's sealed off in a compartment with no air.

However, this also brings up a question of what will they do with others who die on the ship. Put them out an airlock, or put them in some other airless compartment for the time being?

[Kaiphantom]

In the interest of brevity, I'll prune a bit, too, especially the parts we agree on.

I totally agree with the above, I just think we don't need to expect to be shown it yet. Chloe just may not be at that point yet. I'm willing to accept that, especially given that what has been 5 episodes for us has been mere days for these characters.

As I think I mentioned before, too, plenty of other characters have gotten as much, or less screen time, and have shown some growth. James, for example. Perhaps it's my own expectations, but I generally expect more growth from a character that has more screentime.

Her calling him out was directly related to the previous conversation she had with Rush earlier in the episode, in which she says "You can't ask someone to sacrifice themselves, period." If she was selfish, she wouldn't have been so against Rush's plan to choose someone to die.

I can agree she wouldn't want anyone to. But real life doesn't work that way. Sometimes idealism has to give way to reality. Someone needed to die. I'm a logical guy like Rush, and I admit I would have volunteered to do it. No, you can't ask someone to sacrifice themselves, but you can put it up there what the situation is. But her smacking him and getting angry after was pure immaturity, because she passed on the idea to her father, who obviously agreed with Rush.

Furthermore, we see it in the most recent episode where she says "What is wrong with you?" to Rush, in response to Rush insinuating that Young should leave Scott behind and try to get as much water as possible back. Putting logic and practicality aside, this certainly shows that Chloe cares about people...though perhaps wasn't thinking about the ramifications of not having enough water.

I'm sorry, I can't put logic and practicality aside; it's a philosophical choice. If she says it about anyone else, like Greer or Volker, I might start to see it. But it was her boytoy that was in danger. That means she can't be an objective party.

Perhaps clarification is needed though. I only said that people whined about Carter and McKay due to their lack (i.e. not absence) of flaws, but complain when a character with substantially more flaws (i.e. not 100% flawed) comes along.

I will say that McKay had some serious flaws(he blew up a solar system for one). Carter less so.

I can accept a character with flaws. Rush, Eli, Greer, and James are my favorite characters at the moment, and I can clearly see they have flaws, too. Eli went melodramatic about the aliens, and also spoke up when he shouldn't during the conversation to Young. Rush got them all stranded on the Destiny in the first place. Greer has some anger issues, and James was screwing in the closet.

But each one also showed growth. Eli accepted their situation instead of whining about it, and is constantly working to improve it. Rush (now that he's somewhat over his withdrawal) is starting to try and follow the command structure and fall in line; being more... malleable I think is the word. Accepting that he can be wrong. Greer seems to be expanding in that while he's still got some anger issues, we're learning a bit of why and learning that he's not such a two-dimensional tough guy.

Chloe hasn't exhibited any real positive signs. Well, to be fair and honest, I have to take that back a bit. On a second watching, I was impressed with her allowing her room to be searched for water and completely understanding the reason why; the search needed to be done and had to be done fairly to all. So I give her props for that.

But I'm sorry, that's all I can give her for now. We are still early in the season, so there is time, but she needs to establish a more positive side, that she can step out and do things right. That's what Stargate is about. This isn't BSG, and I hope to Apophis this show doesn't become BSG.

[Ukko]

i never saw Greer do that.

My mistake Just rewatched the seen. It was spencer.

[mjwalshe]

Force is directly proportional to your mass and acceleration.

f = mv2

Velocity is squared