'Subversion' (118) General Discussion

[Giantevilhead]

Resources would be limited if they wanted to keep the operation quiet. I'm surprised they had an armed team so close. Perhaps they were beamed in when Daniel gave the word.

I think that's a lame excuse considering how they've been preparing for Goa'uld infiltration of earth ever since the first season of SG-1. Their incompetence would be excusable if this was the first or second time something like this has happened but this kind of thing has happened a dozen times in the past. There was the whole thing with the NID and the Trust, there was that Goa'ulded billionaire who took over the Prometheus, the time when Osiris tried to learn the location of Atlantis from Daniel, the Goa'ulded Russian general who almost started a nuclear war, Goa'ulded Colonel Caldwell trying to blow up Atlantis, the Lucian Alliance bounty hunter who tried to kill SG-1 at Mitchell's high school reunion, Baal running around earth for over a year, and Athena still being on earth. Didn't they learn anything from all that?

[_SocraticMethod]

Anyone watching on Space now?? (i.e. in Canada) I've seen it already, but I can't enough of this episode!!

[Cory Holmes]

Anyone watching on Space now?? (i.e. in Canada) I've seen it already, but I can't enough of this episode!!

You're right! There isn't enough (blank) to satisfy me! I need more (blank) to make the show worthwhile! Without (blank), I'll set up my torch and get a pitchfork and roast the (blank) out in the open where all can see the burning (blank)!

[RedXian]

You're right! There isn't enough (blank) to satisfy me! I need more (blank) to make the show worthwhile! Without (blank), I'll set up my torch and get a pitchfork and roast the (blank) out in the open where all can see the burning (blank)!

Alcohol?

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Stargate Universe: Episode 18 - Subversion
xxxevilgrinxxx - 5/29/2010

There are a couple of things that really stood out for me in this episode. One being how many parallels there are between the characters, and that they aren't necessarily the ones I would have expected. The second being in the shades of grey that make for rich, layered characters with real depth.

One of the parallels that I had expected the writers to build was between Rush and Young. They two have very different ideas about how to get things done but one thing they have in common is that once they have come to a decision about how it should go, they are resolute in seeing it through, no matter the cost. Even in a situation where they don't fully trust one another, they both step up and act and, while it can't truly be said that they are working as a team, it can be said that they are working for the same purpose. One of the things that struck me here was that they were akin to the O'Neill/Jackson relationship. Two men with very different experiences and beliefs who nevertheless come together for a purpose. Rush and Young will never likely attain that level of friendship but I do believe that they are well on their way to respect. It is Rush that comes to Young with the problem, a mutual problem. It is Young that gives Rush the score on what he's getting himself in for and then goes on to let him do it. Provisionally of course. Young's use of 'the greater good' as his reasons for continuing further my belief that on some level he has respect for Rush, as 'the greater good' is something that Rush would believe in.

A second parallel is between Scott and Jackson, specifically as it relates to the men they serve under. Both O'Neill and Young haven't gotten where they are by doing the soft things, the nice things, and this history comes to the fore when they are pressed to do something that would appear incredibly callous in our eyes. In a way, Jackson and Scott act as the conscience of these two men. Their better natures. In this episode, both step in at the time when what they say needs to be heard - in protecting the rights of Telford(Rush). The difference between the two characters is that with Jackson, it appears to be a throw away line. Something he says but that doesn't come across as being entirely believable. It could be that, with his history with O'Neill, he doesn't have to press. It could be that since he isn't on the Destiny to oversee affairs, he has no emotional tie to events, or it could be that it wasn't acted with conviction. In any case, it is Scott who is aboard the Destiny and in a position to change events that is the real voice of conscience here, although I believe he has made a serious mistake in speaking with Wray.

The third parallel is between Kiva and Young or, more precisely, between the actions taken by these two and this is one of the places where I really appreciate the depth the writers have granted these characters. Much like the Rush/Young parallel, when Kiva and Young have decided upon a course of action, very little will sway them from the course of what they believe they must do. Both will adopt harsh tactics to achieve their ends, if need be, although both are also adept at at least trying to get what they want through other means, such as conversation. When conversation doesn't work, they don't waver. Kiva is clearly the villain in this piece but the writers have done a wonderful job of not making her a cardboard cut out villain, just as they have not made Young a cookie-cutter hero. Kiva's 'aversion' to torture seems more an affectation to me, as she clearly had no trouble with a man being killed right in front of her and did not appear in the least squeamish at the pain inflicted on Rush(Telford). Young's actions are clearly not those of a textbook hero although given that both he and O'Neill believe that Telford is the victim of brainwashing, it does put the treatment in context. In any case, neither of these characters is acting out of simplistic, two-dimensional drives.

The fourth parallel is between Brody and Greer. If Scott is Young's conscience, then Greer is Young's will and in this episode, so is Brody. Greer has had a bloody history with Telford and wouldn't trust Rush as far as he could throw him. The scientists may bristle under the authority of Young but this pales in comparison with Telford's scenes on the Destiny, where Telford will not listen, will not compromise, puts them in mortal danger and, when the chips are down, flees the ship to leave them to their fate. Brody has also seen that Rush is not up front about much that goes on with the Destiny. Of all the scientists, I had expected Eli to be the one to back up Young and so it comes as a pleasant surprise to see that this is not the case.

There are other parallels as well, between Young and O'Neill, and also between Telford and Wray, and all of these layers seem to have been so well written that they are coming together at this one moment. Not necessarily in this single episode but in this single moment and that is masterful storytelling. I look forward to watching "Incursion - Part 1" next week and seeing how the rest of this story line plays out.


(reposted from Fan Reviews)

[SG7]

Just saw the episode last night as us Canucks didn't get it last week. Loved the episode! A few things bothered me but they were just minor. The one being that they used Daniel in the episode when it kinda seemed out of place. I didn't dislike him being there, I just think that there would have been better people that they could have used in that situation that would have felt more right. Like Major Davis for instance. Seeing ones like Gary Jones (Walter) make perfect sense. He was basically went from just being the gate operator to an assistant/aide to Landry. And probably on to being O'Neill's aide

The other thing that sorta bothered me was the Baby shower. I loved it. However I think that it was poorly placed in the episode. Would have been better to start off the episode with it rather than try to stick it in the episode somewhere.

And lastly I would have loved to see more TJ moments myself. But I absolutely adore her so I don't think that any amount of her would be enough for me!

anyone happen to know if the finale is one two hour episode all in one night or is it back to back weeks?

Probably a two hour cliffhanger aired over two weeks. Though I'm not 100% sure on that.

I only ask cause I'm making a dislike SGU list and right now camile wray is the only one I have down and I'm debating putting Telford or not.

If in fact he has not been brainwashed, then I would put him right down at the bottom of the "Scum" pile.

I like how the event of Divided were some kind of background on this episode. I also like the scene were Brody obeys Young's command to depressurize (or something) the room where Telford in Rush's body is. With Eli and Volker "questioning" it. Same as Wray not liking to be kept in the dark. It was all well played out.

The only issue I have is if a large portion of the crew are kept in the dark about something, then it will just lend itself to mutany on the ship again. And unless they want to go back to fighting amongst themselves, it probably isn't a wise idea to keep everyone in the dark. At least throw them a bone, give them something to satisfy their curiosity so that they don't start jumping to conclusions and thinking "worst case" senarios. Give them something to work with and you keep it nipped in the but before it gets out of control.

People are really hating the baby shower? geez, it was like 2 minutes and most of these people aren't military...of course they'd want something to break up the day to day monotony. Seriously, all they are doing is eating, sleeping, and you know the third thing. Why wouldn't they throw her a baby shower?

Agreed. My only complaint was it seemed out of place where it was. I think it would have been better if the episode opened with them having the baby shower for her. Where it was in the episode to me felt out of place. However I really enjoyed it. It gave a level of joy and humanity to a show that has been severly lacking in that department given the situation the crew on Destiny is in.

[SG7]

Perhaps the LA know a lot more about the Destiny than we do. The assumption is, that all their information is coming from the Icarus Project. Maybe the LA have access to information about Destiny and how to control it

Perhaps they are the ones controlling Destiny from where they are, but short of using the Comm stones, don't have any physical way of getting on board the ship

Loved TJ and baby shower. Such a sweet blip of happiness in the lives of Destiny’s crew. And the following talk between TJ and Chloe was great. I would have preferred to see James or Park instead of Chloe, but it was still a nice scene.

Indeed! I too loved that scene. Alaina did a brilliant job there. Kudos to her performance there. I almost cried during that scene. She really made me feel for what she was going through and the prospects of raising a baby on board Destiny. Well done! I too would have prefered if it was James or Parks that she was talking to but then again, I'll take what I get

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

...
Indeed! I too loved that scene. Alaina did a brilliant job there. Kudos to her performance there. I almost cried during that scene. She really made me feel for what she was going through and the prospects of raising a baby on board Destiny. Well done! I too would have prefered if it was James or Parks that she was talking to but then again, I'll take what I get

I loved the shower scene and Riley continues to surprise me

[SG7]

I loved the shower scene and Riley continues to surprise me

That he does. And he even said that if she has a girl he'd make something else! How sweet of him!

[BStearns]

I thought that this was one of the best episodes of SGU this season. I felt that the writers were firing on all cylinders. I really enjoyed seeing Jack and Daniel back, and Jack's "I know what makes me so special" line was priceless and really brought me back to classic Jack. There were some things that I didn't like, such as the extra scene between Chloe and TJ. While it was nice to give them some screen time, I felt it was only there for that reason and didn't add anything to the episode. If you want to read all my thoughts on the episode, you can get my SGU Subversion review here.

[SG7]

I thought that this was one of the best episodes of SGU this season. I felt that the writers were firing on all cylinders. I really enjoyed seeing Jack and Daniel back, and Jack's "I know what makes me so special" line was priceless and really brought me back to classic Jack. There were some things that I didn't like, such as the extra scene between Chloe and TJ. While it was nice to give them some screen time, I felt it was only there for that reason and didn't add anything to the episode. If you want to read all my thoughts on the episode, you can get my SGU Subversion review here.

I liked the TJ scenes. However I have to admit that I thought that the Baby shower scene was poorly placed in the episode.

[Sapphire_Jade]

This episode is the best episode of the season yet! (in my opinion) I feel that this is the first episode all season that had a classic Stargate feel to it. Having Jack actually use the com stones and go to the destiny was awesome! And I love that they brought the Lucian Alliance into this!

There are mixed opinions about the baby shower scene. I liked it, but i thought it was improperly placed. In an episode that has so much going on it kinda slowed things down. That scene would have been better in another episode.

I can't wait to see the last to episode of this season! And after this season is over I am going to watch season 1 over and over again waiting for season 2 to start!

[Commander Zelix]

I liked the TJ scenes. However I have to admit that I thought that the Baby shower scene was poorly placed in the episode.

I don't think they were so misplaced since it was also used as a backdrop for the Eli discussion with the other scientists. Anyway there a little bit of redundancy in the main plot with those torture "tell me what you know" scenes (which were all good and fun nevertheless). So it was a little break from those scenes.

[SG7]

I don't think they were so misplaced since it was also used as a backdrop for the Eli discussion with the other scientists. Anyway there a little bit of redundancy in the main plot with those torture "tell me what you know" scenes (which were all good and fun nevertheless). So it was a little break from those scenes.

Even if I felt that they were misplaced, I would hard pressed to not want them there as I will take any TJ moments that I can get. I find that she is the main reason I love the show as much as I do!

Ever since "Faith", I have felt that she has done some of the best acting that I have ever seen on a show. And have no problems saying so! The more of her I get to see, the happier I am!

[the fifth man]

Even if I felt that they were misplaced, I would hard pressed to not want them there as I will take any TJ moments that I can get. I find that she is the main reason I love the show as much as I do!

Ever since "Faith", I have felt that she has done some of the best acting that I have ever seen on a show. And have no problems saying so! The more of her I get to see, the happier I am!

She is definitely a great Universe character. I like her more and more all the time.