'Life' (109) General Discussion

[pjt]

Don't assume to know what I'm capable of imagining. We don't know exactly what Telford said. All we know is what Young's wife picked up from what Telford said. Whatever he said could very well have been what he thought was the truth. Telford, iirc is an Air Force Colonel. He's in decent shape, and not hideous. With the exception of Young, and perhaps other random Destiny crewmembers, I haven't seen anyone overly dislike him. It is completely implausable that he would have difficulty finding a sexual partner, should he want one. Therefore, the only reason he would choose to pursue Young's wife (who is not in any way exceptional looking, and who is already involved, thus less available for wooing) would be as a petty strike at Young for the events of Earth. Thus, Young assuming Telford is petty.

You like Lou Diamond Phillips and/or Telford, I got it. And you're no into girls and/or Ona Grauer, I got it too. And you're right, Telford was there for Young, to tell her, he's gonna be right, and to be a shoulder for her if she's crying. Or just exchanging crochet patterns. Yeah right.

[pjt]

I got that from her character in the very first episode. She seemed very much like her father in her resolve, her standing up to Rush, her being as strong as she could be for herself and her mother following her father's death, the way she faced death in 'Light'... Then she started going down hill. Maybe it was Scott. Maybe it was Eli, her BFF, maybe it was seeing her vapid friends and former life. I want that strong young woman from the first episode back.

- When her father died she cried, then started hitting Rush, to be able to blame somebody.
- She told her mother, but anyone else would have.
- She had sex in Light with Scott, then just sat there.
Maybe you just thought she was different, a now you actually se her?

[natyanayaki]

She has the makings of a potential leader, I think. She certainly has the history... though being daughter/assistant of the Gov. of California is a bit iffy on the 'leader' scale.

He's a Senator of CA I think??

- When her father died she cried, then started hitting Rush, to be able to blame somebody.

I think that's a huge part of it, and while it bothered me, I don't blame her for that completely.

[nx01a]

Senator. Governor. Whatever. It's still California.
From her character description, I expected her to be an airhead in 'Air', but she seemed quite mature and capable to me. Now... Eh. I hope she gets that gusto back.
As for Light, she wasn't frantic about being picked for the shuttle, she wasn't panicking, she went to the observation deck, stood next to her BFF and looked into the heart of the star that was 'going' to kill her. I respected that.

[Deevil]

No I don't care about what happened between them, BUT I do think she seemed way to self-involved to find out what happened before judging.

Why should she. First, it wasn't self involved to confront her friend about her ex cheating with her, it really was about her. Her friend didn't even deny it, she acted guilty.

There was not need for Chloe to play Nancy Drew and investigate the crime, she'd seen enough. Furthermore, after learning that one of her friends is more upset over her Dad dieing because he misses out on his leg up, showing he was only friends with her because of the power her father held... I don't think she had much faith in her other friends, understandably so.

You're right, she doesn't need to cry, there are other ways to convey loneliness. But for me to see her as a lonely individual I need to see her alone, in an emotional scene, which I don't recall seeing.

I guess you've never heard of being alone in a room full of people have you? Everyone on that ship, in way way or another is lonely. Slowly, some of them are pulling together so they have people to depend on... it's what happens.

In Dark, when she's in the "shower" and the lights go out, her need for Eli to be there. I am slightly sympathetic to her, because it's a horrible situation, but I did find it selfish that when something bigger and more important than her was going on she basically demanded "Math-boy's" attention.

How on Earth is that being selfish? That's being scared.

All this might be because she's a spoiled, rich Daddy's girl as EllieVee said, but it doesn't feel like that's what the writers want us to see, based on editing, dialogue, acting...

I'm not sure that's true at all. I think we are meant to think that she has lead a rather sheltered and protected life - something unavoidable when your father is in politics.

but I do think that's Carlyle plays Rush in a much more positive/sympathetic light than the writers seem to have intended. So while the writers want Rush to look as nothing more than the selfish scientist, and Young as the flawed hero, Rush often looks like the man who made one selfish decision, but many more fair decisions, and Young looks like a paranoid man.

You seem to be assuming what the writers expect us to feel - rather then just 'feeling' what you do. I think Rush is meant to be sympathetic. I don't think he is just meant to be a selfish scientist. And I do think that Young is meant to be considered somewhat... unhinged. There is nothing in the writing to suggest otherwise.

As much as I dislike Chloe (or more accurately am bored by Chloe), I can agree with that, that is one thing I can appreciate about the character.

There is no reason why we are meant to like every character. I think Chloe has a lot of potential, and or someone who is supposedly clingy and needy - she handled potentially dying in Light better then some of the people did on the ship.

I think she's a lot stronger then people give her credit for...

[Eternal Density]

I've heard of California!

McCay

It's McKay with a Kay with a k, ok?

[PG15]

Carlyle was picked specifically because, as he puts it, "he makes the unlikeable things likable."

[MattSilver 3k]

Senator. Governor. Whatever. It's still California.
From her character description, I expected her to be an airhead in 'Air', but she seemed quite mature and capable to me. Now... Eh. I hope she gets that gusto back.
As for Light, she wasn't frantic about being picked for the shuttle, she wasn't panicking, she went to the observation deck, stood next to her BFF and looked into the heart of the star that was 'going' to kill her. I respected that.

Good news then... I think she's going to be stepping up again for...

Spoiler:

Justice.

[EllieVee]

You seem to be assuming what the writers expect us to feel - rather then just 'feeling' what you do. I think Rush is meant to be sympathetic. I don't think he is just meant to be a selfish scientist. And I do think that Young is meant to be considered somewhat... unhinged. There is nothing in the writing to suggest otherwise.

And it's precisely why I don't get those who drone on about Rush being selfish and machiavellian. Well, I suppose he could be considered so in the true sense of the The Prince but in the colloquial sense, no.

[jcainhaze]

Me likie Rush but no trustie Rush.

[Yusagi]

You like Lou Diamond Phillips and/or Telford, I got it. And you're no into girls and/or Ona Grauer, I got it too. And you're right, Telford was there for Young, to tell her, he's gonna be right, and to be a shoulder for her if she's crying. Or just exchanging crochet patterns. Yeah right.

Ah, but you're wrong. I have no opinion on LDP or Telford. I know very little about either, except that LDP is energetic on his Twitter, and Telford has so far actually adhered to military rules. What I'm doing, is not leaping to conclusions based on scraps of flimsy evidence primarily garnered through three brief and likewise vague clips, and a hysterically jealous husband. Especially not on a show seems to be surviving on 'shock' reactions so far. Not in the traditional 'omg so-and-so just died!' way, but in an "I can't believe this! Oh wait, that's why, it didn't really happen." way.

What Telford's real reasons for spending time around Young's wife is, I can't say, but his body language in the scenes implies to me that he's at least partially telling the truth. I won't be suckered (and that's in a general term, not derogatory to those who disagree) into believing Telford's a horrible person, when I haven't been presented with any evidence that he is.

Further thoughts = possible spoilers

Spoiler:

Especially given that LDP said something like 'not all is what it seems' to an upset Telford fan on his Twitter

[Saquist]

And this is what you do: you accuse people of talking about something that you bring up. I am simply responding to something you brought up *totally unnecessarily*. Stop it. No one is interested in you.

Tsk, tsk, wrong again.On both counts.

Originally Posted by pjt View Post
And just one little quip: I'm absolutely sure, that if it was you who thought you had one day to live, found someone you felt at least something for each other, then you simply had told her to get lost, and continued to polish your chastity belt.
(God, I wish you weren't ashamed of your age... "Sleeping-around"... "hypocritical"... )

So, it had nothing to do with the clearly inaccurate comment that Chloe is sleeping around? Good, glad we got that sorted.

I thought it did but ultimately, no.

You don't date a friends ex. It's cheap and it's tacky.

I wouldn't care. If I break up with someone it's over. I don't owe any rights to them. I don't go for owning women or anyone owning me especially after a breakup.

She's young, she's human and she makes mistakes. She doesn't need to comfort of men, she needs to have friendship. She, like everyone on board needs company. It's a lonely place, made even more lonelier by knowing they aren't getting home any time soon.

Are you sure because instead of talking with someone like Eli she had sex.

As for what's 'right' - it depends on what you consider 'right'. They are human, so they aren't going to be perfect. They aren't going to be the larger then life heroes we are used to from the previous series' (thank god). They are gonna be human.

I don't think it has anything to do with interpretation. This is clearly the wrong place for this behavior. These people are far from perfect, far from okay, far from good and frankly unbelievable as characters.

I remind you I've already polled 6 Navy men here at the job and they say none of these officers should be officers in the Armed forces. The system (they say) is designed to weed out individuals that don't follow orders, loose canons, lazy or otherwise liabilities. This show, more than most undermines every concept of the chain of command.

It's a show it's made to be scandalous. But while Scandal and the gossip that interest most here I want something more because human behavior is pretty predictable. Especially when people do ALL the wrong things.

[Deevil]

I wouldn't care. If I break up with someone it's over. I don't owe any rights to them. I don't go for owning women or anyone owning me especially after a breakup.

Yes, but clearly you aren't Chloe... and clearly you aren't female either. Women can have a tendency (there are many exceptions I know) to believe in this quite a lot. You don't date your friends ex.

Are you sure because instead of talking with someone like Eli she had sex.

And they thought they were going to die. It happens. Big deal... It was just sex, it wasn't like she sold her first born for a roll in the hay.

I don't think it has anything to do with interpretation. This is clearly the wrong place for this behavior. These people are far from perfect, far from okay, far from good and frankly unbelievable as characters.

They are believable characters or the exact reason why you think they are unbelievable.

And, it has everything to do with interpretation .

I remind you I've already polled 6 Navy men here at the job and they say none of these officers should be officers in the Armed forces. The system (they say) is designed to weed out individuals that don't follow orders, loose canons, lazy or otherwise liabilities. This show, more than most undermines every concept of the chain of command.

Soldiers like these exist in the defense force - there are a lot of people here from the defense force that are clear on that... and many others (myself included) know people in the military. So, your poll of 6 doesn't outweigh what I know from personal experience.

That being said, it isn't a 100% accurate portrayal of everything military related. That's why this is called fiction, not fact. If you are looking for a 100% accurate portrayal of the defense forces, documentaries may be your best bet. Even docos can be uncomplimentary to the military though, so it's a crap shot.

It's a show it's made to be scandalous. But while Scandal and the gossip that interest most here I want something more because human behavior is pretty predictable. Especially when people do ALL the wrong things.

I don't think there is anything scandalous about the show. Nor do I think it's designed for it. It's a show which has you questioning things, for sure, but there is no intent for scandal that I can see surrounding it.

That being said, you personally may find it that way. But as with many things in life, our personal opinions don't always match up with everyone elses.

[Yusagi]

Yes, but clearly you aren't Chloe... and clearly you aren't female either.

Can we stop discounting member's opinions as invalid based on the personal opinions of other members?

They are believable characters or the exact reason why you think they are unbelievable.

For what it's worth, I think that they are unbelievable for the position they are in.

Soldiers like these exist in the defense force

Soldiers are not officers. And their opinion is, in fact valid, because if the characters are not how they should be on Earth, with believable adjustments due to their position off-world, then there's no point to having them 'officers' at all. They could have just been all-civilian.

[Deevil]

Can we stop discounting member's opinions as invalid based on the personal opinions of other members?

And I didn't. I was just pointing out that clearly he wasn't female or Chloe, so while he may be okay with something - that isn't universally true for everyone.

And women, generally (there are of course always exceptions) are a little more picky with the idea of their friends dating their exes.

For what it's worth, I think that they are unbelievable for the position they are in.

That's cool, we all interpret things differently... and I can certainly see why you wouldn't find them believable. But I have to say, billions of light years from home, with no probable time to get back - it will make anyone become more unhinged then they already were. And while they may have been able to hide it at some point - they have no where to hide it now.

That's what's makes the characters interesting. Because if they were totally holding it together, to me, that would be even more unbelievable.

All that being said, I've gotta assume at some point Young wasn't made of the crazy when Jack first picked him for the mission (which he ultimately turned down)... 'cause that would have been a bad idea. I really think his injury has had an impact with his personality and reasoning skills.

Soldiers are not officers. And their opinion is, in fact valid, because if the characters are not how they should be on Earth, with believable adjustments due to their position off-world, then there's no point to having them 'officers' at all. They could have just been all-civilian.

Soldiers are officers. It's a universal term for all land based defense personal... so perhaps that was incorrect in as much as these guys aren't necessarily land based. But, not because it doesn't apply to comissioned officers.

And I say again, their opinion doesn't outweigh what I know both officers and non-coms can act like.