'Life' (109) General Discussion

[Jper]

I'm sorry, but Brief Candle was the episode that almost made me stop watching SG-1. While the concept is interesting, the episode was about one thing: waiting for the big red reset button. OMG O'Neill is gonna die, but just until the very end, when we find out that O'Neill is not gonna die. Now let me see, if I somehow missed that episode what would I have missed? Err... Well, I'm not so sure...

While Life was all new information about the characters of SGU, Brief Candle was about about that O'Neill is not gonna die, but we'll pretend he's in grave danger anyway.

Which illustrates the point I was trying to make earlier. Which has now been buried under all those massive posts I have given up on reading. Most of you can guess why...

[Deevil]

Deevil, remember Chloe is all distraught at her boyfriend cheating on her with a best friend but she's already sexing it up with Scott so what exactly is she upset about, that he did it first? I find human relational behavior so hypocritical.

I wont address the ex-boyfriend thing because it was already pointed out. But, I'm wondering what pointing this out had to do with the accusation that Chloe is sleeping around, which is clearly isn't.

[EllieVee]

You'd be wrong. I am satisfied to have remained clean as respects to my religion and God. When I marry it will be the first time I engage in sex.

You know what, pal, way way way too much information.

[Yusagi]

Perhaps it is a matter of personal taste, but to me, character development alone does not a plot make. Things must actually happen to make me believe in the character changes, and more importantly, care. Yes, the triangle between Eli, Chloe, and Scott has been developed (relentlessly, even) over the past nine episodes.

But never has it been made to make any sense at all, except in brief glimmers, such as during Light, when Chloe and Eli sit together because they're about to die horribly. Simply being stuck on the same ship (which has been somewhat nullified recently with the use of the stones) and dealing with so far a handful of near-misses should not foster Eli's speech to Chloes bedside in Time. In SG-1 and Atlantis, all of the long-term relationships were slow built, and started as friendships before they became something more. For the most part, we saw them become closer and wached believable bonding experiences before they fell. This in an 'action-oriented' show. Why, in the 'character driven' one, are we getting hastily slopped together romances with little to no foundation? Why would that make me care at all for any of them?

In Life, we see Young go ballistic against Telford over visiting his estranged wife, while only a few episodes before she refused to even speak to him. Why am I expected to care what Young thinks about Telford? Why am I expected to assume from brief snapshots that anything is even going on between Telford and his wife? In Life, we see Wray freak out over forgetting the rowboat in her picture, but we only figured out about this picture this episode, so where is the build up that this is of any importance to her? The most we got leading up to this episode for Wray was that she mentioned Sharon once (which was worded vaguely enough that I thought Sharon was her daughter). Besides this, we've seen her associated with the IOA (who have, by and large, been despicable up until now), and completely selfish. Why should I care if she's upset by something she hasn't mentioned before? (Forgive me if she mentioned the rowboat in her Kino video. They crammed a lot of clips into their double-sized Letters from Pegasus episode, and unlike LfP, I hadn't actually figured out who the crew was yet) In Life, we see more mentions of Young/TJ, but aside from mentions in this episode and one or two others, we haven't actually seen anything resembling sparkage between them, making it again unimportant.

So far, Scott's story has had the most build up and has the most investment out of the entire crew. But really, this is only because they've spotlighted him in almost every single episode--not just in flashbacks, but as being a crucial part of the action, as well. Furthermore, he's one of the few characters who, for me, is vaguely likeable. For his flaws, he's displayed redeeming aspects, such as the extreme lengths he went to get the sand in the pilot episode. Most of the rest of the characters have only been selfish and self-absorbed in varying degrees. But, then again, most of them haven't had any real plot to allow them to have those redeeming aspects shine through. Eventually, I assume there will have to be redeeming arcs for characters such as Rush...but if you wait an entire season of progressive nastiness, you have to work that much harder to try and convince the viewers that the character really isn't a rotten piece of work. (Which is not to say Rush is that, but he's certainly on that path)

What, exactly, am I missing here? Things are 'coming together', sure. But they're coming together because I'm being told they are, not because I'm watching a believable story about them happening. For believable character arcs, it must either take a long time for them to mold differently (in which case, there must be plot in the meantime to keep people without a series fast-forward interested), or other plot must believably spur it forward more quickly. There has been plot, and there has been some spurring, but not enough to see them as far on their paths as most of them are already.

[SupremeLegate]

I wont address the ex-boyfriend thing because it was already pointed out. But, I'm wondering what pointing this out had to do with the accusation that Chloe is sleeping around, which is clearly isn't.

Some people don't like Chloe and take any chance they get to insult that character.

I liked the epsidoe, it devloped several of the characters. And to be honest I am more interested in the character development than anything else.

[PG15]

But never has it been made to make any sense at all, except in brief glimmers, such as during Light, when Chloe and Eli sit together because they're about to die horribly. Simply being stuck on the same ship (which has been somewhat nullified recently with the use of the stones) and dealing with so far a handful of near-misses should not foster Eli's speech to Chloes bedside in Time. In SG-1 and Atlantis, all of the long-term relationships were slow built, and started as friendships before they became something more. For the most part, we saw them become closer and wached believable bonding experiences before they fell. This in an 'action-oriented' show. Why, in the 'character driven' one, are we getting hastily slopped together romances with little to no foundation?

On the contrary, I've been in Eli's position many times and what he did was very realistic, from my point of view.

In Life, we see Young go ballistic against Telford over visiting his estranged wife, while only a few episodes before she refused to even speak to him.

It wasn't just Telford visiting; Young (wrongly) assumed that they were having an affair, and that Telford was pretending to be him to get some Emily booty.

Of course, the fact that Telford was lying about Young's relationship with TJ onboard Destiny was a dick move as well, so Young's anger wasn't entire unjustified.

In Life, we see more mentions of Young/TJ, but aside from mentions in this episode and one or two others, we haven't actually seen anything resembling sparkage between them, making it again unimportant.

What do you mean by "sparkage"?

But anyway, the writers are putting in these hints in so that, when they finally address the issue, it doesn't feel like it's coming out of nowhere; so they're not unimportant.

It seems that the majority of your post asks for why you should care about any of them and that you feel the character/story developments aren't believable.

To this I say: well, that's unfortunate. I don't think there's much to be debated here since it's fairly subjective. I do think it's believable; you don't. That's fine.

[Yusagi]

On the contrary, I've been in Eli's position many times and what he did was very realistic, from my point of view.

Really? In the few days to a couple of weeks that seem to have transpired?

It wasn't just Telford visiting; Young (wrongly) assumed that they were having an affair, and that Telford was pretending to be him.

Of course, the fact that Telford was lying about Young's relationship with TJ onboard Destiny was a dick move as well, so Young's anger wasn't entire unjustified.

By this I mean, he hears that Telford is visiting, and immediately assumes the affair. Thus, with no plausable grounding for why Telford would do this (aside from the fact that he plain dislikes him), he interprets visiting as a reason to flip out on him. The TJ thing was a minor issue, which he only appeared to use to solidify his beliefs (and in so doing completely discounted that his wife said he was doing no such thing).

What do you mean by "sparkage"?

But anyway, the writers are putting in these hints in so that, when they finally address the issue, it doesn't feel like it's coming out of nowhere; so they're not unimportant.

I'm sorry, it's kind of lazy shipper writing XD I mean, they've shown no sign of being attracted to one another--or of having previous attraction to one another. In fact, until recently, they didn't even seem to have known each other before the project. Yes, TJ was extreme in her protection of him and his body in Air, but this isn't any different from how any chief medic would be in any given show. Yes, he seems to have shown (very mild) favoritism toward her, but again, this isn't any different from the general CO attitude toward CMO

It seems that the majority of your post asks for why you should care about any of them and that you feel the character/story developments aren't believable.

To this I say: well, that's unfortunate. I don't think there's much to be debated here since it's fairly subjective. I do think it's believable; you don't. That's fine.

But, essentially, this is what I keep being told: Don't mind the action and the rest of the plot, because the really important thing to pay attention to is the character development. I'm having the problem that, for me, the show has been missing believable character development of any kind. This episode was no exception. In example: This episode exemplifies that Rush is a selfish ass. So has every other episode. Even when he has moments of not being one, such as Time and Dark/Light, he ruins it by the end of the show by either revealing that 'actually, I only stayed because I was sure this would pan out' or just plain continuing to be selfish and unreasonable. This is basically the same, with their respective archetypes, of every character on the ship. I keep waiting for another angle, or something to flesh them out, but I just keep seeing the same information repeated in different ways, without an arc--except, perhaps, for Eli and Scott, who have had marginal changes.

[PG15]

Really? In the few days to a couple of weeks that seem to have transpired?

It was a few weeks. And yeah, in that time frame, for a young male like Eli who never really knew a best friend or girlfriend, it's pretty realistic.

He's a very typical example of an AFC.

As a guy in his early 20s who've been fairly unlucky with the dames, I know exactly how he feels and I know that his situation is very run-of-the-mill (stuck on an alien ship billions of light years from Earth notwithstanding...).

By this I mean, he hears that Telford is visiting, and immediately assumes the affair.

So did a lot of posters in this forum, actually.

I'm sorry, it's kind of lazy shipper writing XD I mean, they've shown no sign of being attracted to one another--or of having previous attraction to one another.

Young dreamed that he made out with TJ at the beginning of "Earth" after talks of "I never meant to hurt you". That's a pretty clear message I think.

But, essentially, this is what I keep being told: Don't mind the action and the rest of the plot, because the really important thing to pay attention to is the character development. I'm having the problem that, for me, the show has been missing believable character development of any kind. This episode was no exception. In example: This episode exemplifies that Rush is a selfish ass. So has every other episode. Even when he has moments of not being one, such as Time and Dark/Light, he ruins it by the end of the show by either revealing that 'actually, I only stayed because I was sure this would pan out' or just plain continuing to be selfish and unreasonable. This is basically the same, with their respective archetypes, of every character on the ship. I keep waiting for another angle, or something to flesh them out, but I just keep seeing the same information repeated in different ways, without an arc--except, perhaps, for Eli and Scott, who have had marginal changes.

Well, like I said, I'm personally satisfied with the rate we're going. 9 episodes into a show that'll hopefully go a few years, I don't expect any of these people to change much, if at all. Right now we're still getting a handle on what they're capable of. If you think that's too slow...well, like I said, that's fine. It's unfortunate, but it happens.

Still, with Rush, I disagree that that's all we're getting. Time offered us a glimpse of what he really wants: a purpose, and ascension. I believe we'll get more later on.

Really, in this case I feel Life is even more important. Young hasn't changed, but he has already been getting more and more stressed with this family life. In this episode, all of that came to a head when Telford started moving in on that a little. Again, at the end, I felt he was ready to snap. With the mid-season finale coming up, I feel that Young is going to have a rude awakening and that his current strategies with dealing with life on the ship and life on Earth will have to change.

Same thing with Rush; so far, it's been the little stuff; however, with the discovery of the chair and Rush's first hopes of getting some big juicy info from the ship, he will be...well, the most "selfish ass" he's ever going to be, and that means his butting heads with Young will be more intense than ever. His way of doing things with the chair now in the picture will not last long. He will need to change as well.

But again, I'm not surprised that the development has been slow and steady. This has the makings of an epic - one long story with every character going from what they are right now: unprepared, cowardly, selfish, etc. etc. to the professionals we might see in SG1/SGA at the end of the series. If they got there before then, then it'd be boring IMHO. It's a story of growth; almost a "coming-of-age" story, except the characters are not kids growing up into adults, but humans learning to survive and prosper on an alien ship billions of light years from home.

And that will take a while. Revealing that your resident jerk is actually a hero deep down in the first 9 episode kinda kills that. He should slowly develop into a hero as the series progress, and become a hero at the end. That is, if we want him to become a hero in the first place.

[nx01a]

If Rush wanted to learn to ascend, he'd study all the years of SGC info on the topic [which is quite definitive considering the many ways we've seen it happen, whether 'spiritual' or biological], or go to Atlantis and get zapped by the 'ascend or die machine'. There has to be more to his ultimate 'goal' than simply that. I got his whole ascend speech was a way of showing how much he respects the Ancients... or how much he just hopes they've got something nifty on their ship to make his life worth something.

As for 'character development'... The female Asian tech (Park?) has gone from a rambling scientist [Darkness/Light] to a supportive friend/shipmate [Time] to a bed-hopping nympho [Life]. That's development! The minor characters seem to be progressing nicely [the guy who got shot and his seeds, Spencer and his twitching]. Eli's firmly in BFF zone... Maybe the next big move will be Wray getting sick and tired of everyone else screwing things up and make her own move for control of the ship? I'm thinking the HR manager might get things done better than the love sick soldier or the 'mad' scientist. Just like Weir vs. Rodney/John.

[Eternal Density]

Ronon's mission report:
"Telford needs a revolving door for all the people who want to punch him out. He'd better stay clear of Atlantis. End of report."

In other news 'sleeping around' is yet another sign of how far the english language has fallen

[nx01a]

Fallen. I like that episode.
True. We have no evidence anyone has actually slept anywhere they've had sex.

[Herb]

(From my blog re: Life)

Months before the Stargate Universe episode called “Life” aired I knew it was going to be one of my favorites. As most of the 15 plus readers of this blog know, I am an extra. Extras are the out of focus people you see in the background of TV shows and Films. We’re also referred to as Background Performers, Background Actors, and or the Atmosphere. On Stargate Universe I was referred to on most of the callsheets as one of “Greer’s Marines” or as ***spoiler***. While we were filming “Time” I managed to get myself a copy of the entire script of “Life” (I know people who can get me these things). From that point on I waited expectantly for the episode to air. (http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/alb...u_109_0114.jpg That is me behind Dr. Park).

I’ve been asked many-a-time since the episode called “Life” aired as to why it is one of my favorites. The main reason I loved it so much is because it gives to the Stargate universe (note the “universe” isn’t capitalized) a new dimension and depth heretofore not explored (much). It reminded me a bit of the episodes of SG-1 that dealt with O’Neill’s (“Two, Ls”) past (think of yellow sand and crystalline entities that have great explosive potential). I love stories that have good, deep, and interesting characters. Most shows give us a lot of characterization: age, gender, occupation, they type of clothes a person wears, where they live, they car they drive, how they walk, etc., etc., but they don’t give us a whole lot of character: how a person reacts to conflict, or the choices an individual makes under pressure. “Life” gave us a whole lot of character development. Think of Greer’s psych evaluation. It was short, but told us a whole lot about him and what makes him tick. When the world gets to watch “Lost”, they’ll understand even more what makes Greer’s cogs turn.

Furthermore, after reading “Life” I was left with many questions. A good feature film will for the most part raise questions, and before the film is over, will answer them. A good TV series on the other hand will raise questions in one episode–such that the viewers wonder what will happen next, (and of course tune in the following week)–and answer those questions at some point in a future episode. At least a good TV series will do this. Stargate Universe does this. Unfortunately, there are many folks out there who want all the answers all at once. There is a lack of patience. They want fast food TV shows. SGU is not fast food. It is a savory meal that one anticipates all day (all week). The longer the show airs, the more savory it will become. If they went the way of the fast food-give all the answers sort of show, that is all it would ever be. The writers/producers of SGU are creating a massive base (or if we keep with the food metaphor, a sophisticated pallet of tastes) that will serve to create a massive structure that will be ever pleasing (and oh so tasty). So ya, I want deeper, more interesting shows. That’s my personal preference. Please, don’t judge me. For the record, there will be plenty of technology related episodes coming up, and because of the foundation that has been layed out for us, they will be that much more, well, awesome.

[EllieVee]

Great post, thanks Herb.

[pjt]

Okay, it's possible the plot points could one day amount to something interesting (or the plans could fall flat on their face, and be completely uninteresting even when they do come to fruitation), but, IMO...possible future plot points are only acceptable if there's a relevant current plot point to go with it. Which was nonexistent this episode, with the exception of the violent soldier--which I have absolutely zero emotional investment in, and quite frankly have been given no reason to care if he gets airlocked.

As was Brief Candle for me. And by the way, what was that interesting plot that made you like that episode?

[pjt]

By this I mean, he hears that Telford is visiting, and immediately assumes the affair. Thus, with no plausable grounding for why Telford would do this (aside from the fact that he plain dislikes him), he interprets visiting as a reason to flip out on him. The TJ thing was a minor issue, which he only appeared to use to solidify his beliefs (and in so doing completely discounted that his wife said he was doing no such thing).

Maybe Young has longer memory than most of you, and remembered what happened when the Destiny came out of FTL. But in case you forgot it, Young was having sex with his wife in Telfords body.

So for Telford it was like: "So I'm just being a prick on Destiny, then whoa, I'm like doing this hot chick, and she was hot believe me, than whoosh and I'm back on Destiny."

So Young assumed that Telford went back for more, and that good old Telford used these visits only to tell lies on Young makes him more than disturbed...