"we'll never be done"

[Skydiver]

no, risked.

he had a choice, dial the known quantity of earth, the alpha site or another known planet, or risk it pushing for the 9th chevron. A dial out, by the way that took so much power it likely contributed to the continuing instability of the planet, possibly shortening its life span (ie had he dialed earth they might have gotten more than 6 minutes of gate time, or lost less lives in the seismic tremors exacerbated by the power drain)

he was bound and determined to dial the 9th chevron, and be danged anything that got in his way. So he risked 80+ lives on a the single dialout they'd have time for, to see if the 9th chevron connected.

Ultimately, it worked out, but he didn't know that when he DISOBEYED YOUNG"S ORDER to dial the 9th chevron.

He risked the life of every single person on that base dialing the 9th chevron instead of dialing a safe site to get them home.

He was like the person, lost in the woods, that says 'yeah, i know the highway is over there, but i think this path is shorter, so let's go this way...no, don't know where it goes, but this is our only chance to go this way, so let's take it'

and he unilaterally made that decision for every man and woman on the base

When he said 'we'll never be done' he was telling Young 'frak you, i will continue to do whatever i want, however i want and danged by everyone else or anyone that gets in my way'

He is undoubtedly a genius and possesses tremendous knowledge about the ship, but his obsession with it and with getting his way has and likely will continue to endanger every single person on that ship.

[Skydiver]

Ellie

You see young as the horrible meanie and villian, others of us see Rush in that role.

We're gonna need to agree to disagree on this, because like you just posted, there's no absolute proof either way. In my opinion, Rush's 'had to dial the 9th chevron to save earth' was just a half thoughtout excuse to cover his butt. You see it as a reasonable explanation.

We'll never know for sure.

[EllieVee]

Ellie

You see young as the horrible meanie and villian, others of us see Rush in that role.

We're gonna need to agree to disagree on this, because like you just posted, there's no absolute proof either way. In my opinion, Rush's 'had to dial the 9th chevron to save earth' was just a half thoughtout excuse to cover his butt. You see it as a reasonable explanation.

We'll never know for sure.

Actually, I see Young as a good man who by circumstances of his situation (or physical fitness given the scene in the kitchen where he collapses) is fast losing his mental capacities.

What I am doing, Skydiver, which people here don't want to admit, is simply pointing out again and again that this 'Rush is the worst person ever!' nonsense is simply not provable. I won't speak in absolutes because there is no evidence. You said in your previous post 'risked' and yes, that's true but your contention that he just covered his arse is pure speculation. I think there is a logical explanation for dialing the ninth chevron. Come up with some actual evidence. We don't know. Carlyle says we don't know, though he has said Rush saved them all which indicates to me he knows something we don't, despite also saying that he doesn't want to know if Rush is villain or hero.

[Skydiver]

one thing though, if we're going to be arguing canon on the show, interviews don't count.

what we gotta go by is what we've seen on the screen during the show, and then our own interpretations there of.

interviews might shed light on things, but they're not canon.

[EllieVee]

one thing though, if we're going to be arguing canon on the show, interviews don't count.

what we gotta go by is what we've seen on the screen during the show, and then our own interpretations there of.

interviews might shed light on things, but they're not canon.

I didn't say they were but I'd trust the actor's interpretation and view of his character more than some of the stuff on this thread.

And I do go on what's on the show. If you were arguing canon, you'd be writing the same stuff as me. We don't know; anything else is speculation. By all means, hate Rush, but argue from what's on the screen. He might be the greatest villain and evil monster of all time but there's nothing on screen that he's said or done to vindicate that view.

[Skydiver]

You interpret young as

Actually, I see Young as a good man who by circumstances of his situation (or physical fitness given the scene in the kitchen where he collapses) is fast losing his mental capacities.

I see him as someone who's in over his head, and is trying to make the best decisions for the most number of people, but who is constantly distracted by challenges from others making bids for power.

You see rush in a fairly positive light.

I see him just the other way. I've dealt with people like him before and I have no patience for them. I have no patience for the spinning, manipulations, backstabbing. In my view, the man is obsessed, dangerously obsessed with first getting on and then staying on the Destiny. He's twisted the truth, he's knowingly endangered the crew and he can't be trusted. I cheered when Young left him behind and my biggest disappointment in the final 10 episodes is that Rush will come back and we'll have more twisting of the truth, more back stabbing, more manipulations.

we'll have more 'screw teamwork, i'm out for me' when he does come back. And i'm not looking forward to it. My dislike of Rush and his psychosis and obsession is almost enough to turn me off of watching the whole show.

I live with the emotional abuse of someone like him 40 hours a week. I have little tolerance for it in my entertainment.

In my opinion, the second that Young left rush behind is the second that he honestly and truthfully took command of his castaways. he 'grew a pair' and good for him.

[EllieVee]

You interpret young as


I see him as someone who's in over his head, and is trying to make the best decisions for the most number of people, but who is constantly distracted by challenges from others making bids for power.

You see rush in a fairly positive light.

I see him just the other way. I've dealt with people like him before and I have no patience for them. I have no patience for the spinning, manipulations, backstabbing. In my view, the man is obsessed, dangerously obsessed with first getting on and then staying on the Destiny. He's twisted the truth, he's knowingly endangered the crew and he can't be trusted. I cheered when Young left him behind and my biggest disappointment in the final 10 episodes is that Rush will come back and we'll have more twisting of the truth, more back stabbing, more manipulations.

we'll have more 'screw teamwork, i'm out for me' when he does come back. And i'm not looking forward to it. My dislike of Rush and his psychosis and obsession is almost enough to turn me off of watching the whole show.

I live with the emotional abuse of someone like him 40 hours a week. I have little tolerance for it in my entertainment.

In my opinion, the second that Young left rush behind is the second that he honestly and truthfully took command of his castaways. he 'grew a pair' and good for him.

Then my rhetorical question is: are you simply projecting your own horrible experience onto a television character whose motivations while possibly murky are actually unknown, if they exist at all.

You say psychosis: no evidence. Speculation yes, nothing on screen. He might well be nuts but there's no evidence of it.

[Skydiver]

what i see with Rush is a reprise of JR Ewing....a master manipulator that got away with it week after week after week. who spins and twists to keep that tiny bit of deniability out there. who uses, abuses and discards just to get his way.

I stopped watching Dallas because i got sick and tired of JR getting away with it every week. and if SGU goes down that path, Rush's 'teflon' exterior is enough to turn me off the show. I have no patience for any show that holds up someone like him as some sort of admirable anti-hero and has the 'see, isn't he great' attitude.

People like Rush thrive by engendering sympathy from some, then spinning things so they're ALWAYS the victim. Someone is always picking on them, always making their life tough, always being unreasonable. They perpetually play 'poor widdle me' because it allows them to continually get away with abusing others.

Young can make the perfectly reasonable request 'dr rush, i want daily updates on your progress'. Rush will refuse to participate, citing work load, time limits, 'i couldn't find you' etc. Young will say 'do it, it's an order'. Rush will defy that, also citing lack of time. Or he ate something that didn't agree with him, how dare Young be so insensitive to make poor ill Nicholas drag himself up to report. He'll manipulate and twist to keep himself the victim until he gets his way, which is 'frak you Young, I don't report to you and I'm not going to'

People like Rush can even go as far as deliberately making themselves sick to engender sympathy to continue to get their way. As long as they are sympathetic figures, anyone that tries to control them will be seen as cruel and unreasonable.

Anyone that tries to control him will be spin doctored into 'unreasonable bully picking on poor hardworking me'

[EllieVee]

Skydiver, see my previous post. I would write more about the above but not in public.

[Skydiver]

Ellie, you see him one way, I see him another. I'm not going to change my opinion based on an interview. I know that Claudia didn't like some of the ways she played Vala. I bear the actress no ill will, but there are still aspects of the character of Vala that I don't like adn will never like.

It doesn't matter to me how much the actor explains or justifies his character. What i see on the screen is what i see. And my opinions of him are based on the actions of that character.

I don't like Rush. I dont' like what he stands for and I don't like his actions. My sympathies lie with Young and my biggest 'regret' about Justice is that Rush won't stay gone for good. He'll be back. And he'll be back to be the antagonist.

He'll come back, probably keeping secret what really happened on the planet, because as long as he keeps Young's secret, he has power over him. 'leave me alone or i'll tell the whole crew what you did to me', to which Young will reply 'and i'll show them how you framed me for murder' and they'll be at a stale mate. And nothing will change.

[Commander Zelix]

what i see with Rush is a reprise of JR Ewing....a master manipulator that got away with it week after week after week. who spins and twists to keep that tiny bit of deniability out there. who uses, abuses and discards just to get his way.

I stopped watching Dallas because i got sick and tired of JR getting away with it every week. and if SGU goes down that path, Rush's 'teflon' exterior is enough to turn me off the show. I have no patience for any show that holds up someone like him as some sort of admirable anti-hero and has the 'see, isn't he great' attitude.

People like Rush thrive by engendering sympathy from some, then spinning things so they're ALWAYS the victim. Someone is always picking on them, always making their life tough, always being unreasonable. They perpetually play 'poor widdle me' because it allows them to continually get away with abusing others.

Young can make the perfectly reasonable request 'dr rush, i want daily updates on your progress'. Rush will refuse to participate, citing work load, time limits, 'i couldn't find you' etc. Young will say 'do it, it's an order'. Rush will defy that, also citing lack of time. Or he ate something that didn't agree with him, how dare Young be so insensitive to make poor ill Nicholas drag himself up to report. He'll manipulate and twist to keep himself the victim until he gets his way, which is 'frak you Young, I don't report to you and I'm not going to'

People like Rush can even go as far as deliberately making themselves sick to engender sympathy to continue to get their way. As long as they are sympathetic figures, anyone that tries to control them will be seen as cruel and unreasonable.

Anyone that tries to control him will be spin doctored into 'unreasonable bully picking on poor hardworking me'

You're right, but I don't think Rush engender much sympathy from the people on the Destiny. I think they all hate him for having put them in that situation (separated from loves ones, life, etc). Lying about being in command, seemingly hiding the possibility of refuel in Light and trying to frame Young for murder won't help him on the sympathy scales either. The only way I see at the moment that Rush is able to maintain himself in that hostile environment is by being indispensable. A bit like Rodney which was annoying but a genius. Rush is, lets say, devious, and also the Destiny's genius. The moment, his scientific knowledge and ability are not needed anymore. They can ditch him in a brig or lock him in his quarter.

[EllieVee]

Ellie, you see him one way, I see him another. I'm not going to change my opinion based on an interview. I know that Claudia didn't like some of the ways she played Vala. I bear the actress no ill will, but there are still aspects of the character of Vala that I don't like adn will never like.

It doesn't matter to me how much the actor explains or justifies his character. What i see on the screen is what i see. And my opinions of him are based on the actions of that character.

I don't like Rush. I dont' like what he stands for and I don't like his actions. My sympathies lie with Young and my biggest 'regret' about Justice is that Rush won't stay gone for good. He'll be back. And he'll be back to be the antagonist.

He'll come back, probably keeping secret what really happened on the planet, because as long as he keeps Young's secret, he has power over him. 'leave me alone or i'll tell the whole crew what you did to me', to which Young will reply 'and i'll show them how you framed me for murder' and they'll be at a stale mate. And nothing will change.

Skydiver, honestly, I don't think you see Rush at all.

[Skydiver]

I think you and I see different versions of Rush. Which is quite common. Every single character out there is interpreted by people and those people use their own life experiences to develop those interpretations.

For example, some see Daniel as a poor weak thing that has to be protected adn taken care of. they see/saw him as innocent and almost virginal in his lack of worldliness. tehy saw him as someone to be protected and who had to be protected because he was so selfless and naive he'd get himself hurt.

I saw him as someone who grew up relatively emotionally isolated after his parent's death, but who was brilliant. and, possibly because of his isolation, he was able to come up with and stand up for hairbrained theories that he believed were right, even as the rest of his peers called him an idiot.

he had the strength in his beliefs to turn his back on earth and stay on abydos, because he found love there. and he was far from innocent. he likely spent more time in teh backwaters of the world than jack and knows how to assimilate into cultures.

You see Rush as a victim of Young's inability to lead. I see Rush's actions as part of the reason Young is having such a problem. You see Rush as standing up for his beliefs and 'not caving' to Young's bullying. I see Rush as declaring his defiance for any attempt at control.

we both see him differently. And i don't think either of us are totally wrong or totally right.

[Daro]

I respect both of the Rush is the hero/Young is the hero viewpoints. But I think both tend to be far too certain in their interpretations of who and what Rush is.

Anyone (and that includes me) who thinks they have Rush figured out is expressing speculation. We all see him in different ways, interpret his actions and words in different ways, because he is ambiguous. Like a real person, we don't get to know what he's about until we get to know him more. Same with the other characters.

While I am tentatively in the Rush camp, because I think I have him figured out, I am open to re-evaluating that opinion as each episode shows us more and more about him. Being open-minded about the characters is a logical choice, considering we are only mid-season. I see the logic in both sides.

I'd encourage anyone watching this show to just go with the flow. Don't decide, concretely, that Rush is an amoral manipulator who would happily let everyone on the ship die if he thought he didn't need them. I've certainly softened my views on Young already, and am willing to do so in the future, despite my intial view that the man was quickly becoming a military dictator with severe anger management issues and a penchant for publicly undermining the other 'leaders' on the ship.

The back and forth on these forums isn't much fun if neither side is willing to hear the other, or acknowledge the valadity of someone else's argument or view. Relaying personal experience is fine to explain part of why you think what you do, but maybe we shouldn't focus on each other's personal lives. It leaves too much opportunity for one side to discount the other because they percieve the other to have a personal bias.

[EllieVee]

I think you and I see different versions of Rush. Which is quite common. Every single character out there is interpreted by people and those people use their own life experiences to develop those interpretations.

For example, some see Daniel as a poor weak thing that has to be protected adn taken care of. they see/saw him as innocent and almost virginal in his lack of worldliness. tehy saw him as someone to be protected and who had to be protected because he was so selfless and naive he'd get himself hurt.

I saw him as someone who grew up relatively emotionally isolated after his parent's death, but who was brilliant. and, possibly because of his isolation, he was able to come up with and stand up for hairbrained theories that he believed were right, even as the rest of his peers called him an idiot.

he had the strength in his beliefs to turn his back on earth and stay on abydos, because he found love there. and he was far from innocent. he likely spent more time in teh backwaters of the world than jack and knows how to assimilate into cultures.

You see Rush as a victim of Young's inability to lead. I see Rush's actions as part of the reason Young is having such a problem. You see Rush as standing up for his beliefs and 'not caving' to Young's bullying. I see Rush as declaring his defiance for any attempt at control.

we both see him differently. And i don't think either of us are totally wrong or totally right.

Skydiver, please don't tell me what I think.