"we'll never be done"

[SoulReaver]

Fairly certain he wouldn't have done...

+1
he probably would punish Rush but he wouldn't use disproportionate means to do so
he'd most likely let him cool off in the brig for a while

[SoulReaver]

I think it was already decided.

Young: Are we done?
Rush: We'll never be done.
*PUNCH!

Young: Are we done?
Rush: Yes.
Young: You are damn right we are done!
*PUNCH!

Young: Are we done?
Rush: Yes.
Young: Are you sure?
Rush: Yes.
Young: really sure?
Rush: Yes.
Young: really really sure?
Rush: Are we done?
*PUNCH!

anyway - I still say Young's question can be interpreted as either giving Rush "one last chance", or as his final statement before the execution ("are we done ?" = "any last words ?")

[Skydiver]

Jack Oneill would have put a bullet in Rush's brain

no he wouldn'tl

He let the space nazi splatter on the shield with no remorse. He would be much more harsh with someone who has intentionally put the entire crew at risk, withholds vital information, and is generally untrustworthy. I think you'll find many military commanders would have zero tolerance for Rush's bs particularly with lives at risk.

Alar, the 'space nazi' had been revealed to be leading a genetic war on his planet, indiscriminately killing the 'breeders' who reproduced without regard to genetic purity.

SG-1 got involved, the Breeders started to kick the Eurondan's butts, so SG-1 ran for the gate while the Breeders were bomarding Alar's stronghold.

ALAR: STOP HIM! (Sam kicks a man's ass ... literally, she kicks him to stop
him from stopping Jack. Danny hits the other man with a bat or something.
When the man bends down, Sam kicks him in the head.LOL! You go girlfriend!
<g> Danny gets the gun, and points it at Farrel . Jack continues to help the
bombers. Alar grabs a gun pointing it at Jack. Teal'C gets out of the thing,
and grabs the gun squeezing Alar's hand HARD! <A little too hard if you ask
me, but he deserved it!>) AH! (Alar's on his knees holding his hands.) (Jack
drives the craft right into the ground, making the tunnels shake.) (Jack
gets out the thing, and goes with his team.) (Yelling, over the noise) IT
COULD HAVE ALL BEEN YOURS!!!!

JACK: I wouldn't follow us if I were you.

ALAR: NO!

JACK: (After Danny opens the gate, to Danny and Teal'C) GO!

Sam and Jack are shooting the men who are shooting at them. They make a run
for the gate.

ALAR: Wait! WAIT!!!! (Jack and Sam both stop, and turn at the gate.) I could
teach you everything I know! Just let me come with you! (Emotionless face on
Jack) PLEASE! (The two soldiers go thru the gate.

On the other side, Sam is standing facing the open gate. Jack walks thru
slowly.

JACK: (Looking at Sam) Close the iris.

HAMMOND: Do it! (Shot goes to Sam, then to Jack. They're just looking into
each other's eyes.) (Shot goes to Davis, who sighs.) (An impact is seen on
the screen before the gate closes.) (Jack and Sam are still looking into
each other's eyes.) I take it, Colonel, you were unable to encure Eurondan
technology?

Jack told Alar not to come, Alar did anyway. Jack didn't kill him. Alar killed himself.

Jack would not shoot rush, be it colonel O'Neill or General O'Neill. given the situation that they're in, the 'worst' he'd do is confine rush to quarters, allow him to research, but only with curtailed access (in other words, he coudl work on stuff people that people bring him but he'd have no access to the computer core)

he would also be monitored by someone else, or more than one other person.

[Inquisitor]

Because a missing round from his gun/bloodsplatter would be easier to connect than a "rockslide".

Might be that Young just spontaneously wanted to talk, sure, but i didnt get that impression from the scene and what lead up to it.

Also im not saying he necessarily planed to kill rush, he wanted him "removed". As in removed from the playing-field. By what means, that he chose when he let Rush lie there unconscious.

I'd have to agree but reinforce this with there'd be a bullet missing and that would have to be explained. Big bad monster doesn't cut it for all explanations

I'd also suggest Young would have had the whole thing planned and was thinking it through from the moment Rush volunteered to check out the alien ship.

As for the Alar matter, I was surprised that Jack would openly kill someone like that. My reaction was like Carter's.

[Captain Obvious]

I think, had rush said 'yeah, we're done', then young woulda pulled him up and they would have went back to the gate, with or without a 'but we need to study this ship/we don't have time' argument.

but when rush said 'we'll never be done' he was saying 'i will never stop trying to get control' and that's when young said 'to heck with this crap, i don't got time to deal with this' and he decided to leave him

Yeah, that's how I interpreted the scene too. Young was looking for a spark of remorse, something to redeem Rush in his eyes. When Rush essentially told him he will never give up trying to remove him from power, Young put him down and left him there.

[The Swarm]

Indeed, Young is a simple minded brutal person but not a murderer...

[thekillman]

well rush just said that Young is incapable of making tough decisions, shows no remorse towards his schemes of removing young from command. that line was the icing on the cake.

[morrismike]

I'd have to agree but reinforce this with there'd be a bullet missing and that would have to be explained. Big bad monster doesn't cut it for all explanations

I'd also suggest Young would have had the whole thing planned and was thinking it through from the moment Rush volunteered to check out the alien ship.

As for the Alar matter, I was surprised that Jack would openly kill someone like that. My reaction was like Carter's.

You don't think someone like jack would be smart enough to carry an extra bullet for case like that? Don't forget Jack is a cold blooded killer who tends to "bottom line" things.

[Skydiver]

The character of Jack O'Neill is not a cold blooded killer. If he is, then any and every other officer on the show is one too.

He's a soldier that's done his duty.

[morrismike]

The character of Jack O'Neill is not a cold blooded killer. If he is, then any and every other officer on the show is one too.

He's a soldier that's done his duty.

If he had Young's job part of that duty would be to protect the ship and crew from a reckless scientist who is capable of just about anything. If Jack asked the question "are we done yet?" his response would have more finality than Young's. Quite frankly Jack is more committed than Young. You are right about one thing, he's not a cold blooded killer he's a stone cold killer. Jack has a larger body count than the rest of the destiny crew (and probably entire Icarus planet). Don't get me wrong, those people deserved to die but not every soldier is Jack Oneill.

[Skydiver]

I disagree with you, Jack would not have shot Rush.

[Briangate78]

I gotta say that I have not seen a dark moment from a character since Sheppard convinces someone to give their life to save another in "Miller's Crossing". I truly love these moments and really hope they follow-up on this and bites Young back 10 fold.

[KEK]

He let the space nazi splatter on the shield with no remorse. He would be much more harsh with someone who has intentionally put the entire crew at risk, withholds vital information, and is generally untrustworthy. I think you'll find many military commanders would have zero tolerance for Rush's bs particularly with lives at risk.

The space nazi was a genocidal maniac that he had no obligation to let through, in fact he told him he couldn't come with them. Closing the iris on someone like that, and shooting someone in cold blood who's done nothing more than get you sacked are two massively different things. Jack would never blow someone's brains out in cold blood for that, people have done far worse things to him than what Rush did and he hasn't resorted to murder. I don't doubt that many military personnel would, but it would be completely out of character for Jack, I'm sure he's capable of it under the right circumstances, but Rush would have to push him a hell of a lot further in my opinion.

[Blackhole]

Young has shown himself as an honorable man; stranding someone when they are likely to die is a very drastic measure and out of character for him. I think he just wanted to confront Rush, beat him up and cow him into acquiescence. If he went to the planet intending to strand him he wouldn’t have bothered to ask the question “are we done”. He would have just beaten him unconscious and left. When they fought and Rush refused to relent Young got even angrier and made his decision then to leave him. Young has a temper and it probably played a factor in his decision.

In the past I have been a staunch supporter of the view that Young made the right decision to strand Rush and that he deserved it. I based my reasoning on the assumption that Young should have made a threat assessment that Rush was a sufficient and immediate enough threat to the safety and protection of the Destiny’s crew to necessitate his removal. Imo the only justification for a decision so drastic would have been a sincere belief that Rush represented such a danger. The core determinants of such a threat assessment is an appraisal of Rush’s intent.

I read that ‘Wright and Cooper intended the character to be very different from any previous main characters in the Stargate franchise, "somebody who is not the hero, not the villain, and more of a very flawed and complex person” ’.

After reading this and everyone else’s views I have revisited my assessment of the threat Rush posed to the Destiny and softened my views. Wright and Cooper would not have made that statement if they intended to portray Rush all the way to the villain side which is how I and many others are now viewing him.

Rush made a comment that he deemed the finding of the Destiny as the single most important discovery since the Stargate. Given Wright and Cooper’s statement, I believe that Rush was sincere in his belief of the value of the Destiny find and was also sincere in his belief that the potential benefit in knowledge and new technology to mankind from the discovery would justify whatever costs he and the rest of the 80 plus people had to pay. This is the reason Rush decided to dial the 9th Chevron’s address instead of any uninhabited planet in the Milky Way Galaxy that would have safely returned everyone home. At the time, I think he believed this may have been mankind’s only chance to ever arrive at the address. Apparently the Icarus planet with its radioactive core was very rare in the galaxy; it provided an enormous amount of energy that could be tapped and used to dial the vastly distant 9th Chevron address. Imo, during the evacuation, with the destruction of the planet imminent, Rush surmised that this may represent the only chance to ever successful dial the address; so he chose to unilaterally gamble with all their lives sending them to an unknown destination. I think he was fully aware that in all likelihood they may never return. I am neither denying the terrible harm that has already befallen the 80 plus people on the Destiny nor minimizing the hardship and ongoing peril they will face in the future. I am only suggesting that viewing his action from this perspective paints his intent in a much less evil light, at least in my mind. If it turns out that valuable information is gained from the Destiny, then history may regard his actions favorably. His contention he was doing it for the ‘great good’ may have been valid.

Rush is arrogant, has very poor people skills and shuns contact with others. I wouldn’t be surprised if an upcoming episode presents backstory that illustrates how the bereavement he experienced from the tragic death of his wife led to a total withdrawal from humanity and a consequent loss of empathy and a fear of any social attachments, and is what has driven him in his single minded pursuit of his work.

From the beginning on the Destiny and probably earlier, Rush and Young have butted heads. If Rush had better explained to Young and the others the importance of the Icarus Project to him and what he thought its value to the Earth and all of mankind would be, it would have gone a long way to help their understanding of him and lessen their resentment. Of course if he had done so it would have removed much of what the dramatic tension the show has been based on.

Rush is somewhat Machiavellian in his approach to life and the accomplishment of his goals. I don’t believe he is evil just very pragmatic and is as other posters have indicated utilitarian in his approach to life. In many circumstances he believes the ‘ends justifies the means’.

The show so far has revolved around the conflict Rush and Young have had. Neither party understands each other well. Rush views Young as unable to make life and death command decisions and to see the bigger picture. Young views Rush as self-serving, reckless and displaying a callous disregard for human life. Both are right and both are wrong.

Unfortunately, as time has passed their conflict has worsened. Young has attributed more and more “evil” motives to Rush’s actions and trusts him less and less and Rush has felt more and more disliked and distrusted by Young and his attempts to understand the Destiny restricted.

The chair incident is a perfect example. At first I agreed with Young’s assessment that Rush took advantage of Franklin’s desperation and set up a situation where he would be able to rashly try the chair out on himself. Now, I think Rush was probably in too much in a hurry to learn about the chair and didn’t take enough safeguards and Franklin made a very foolish decision on his own. Rush was smart enough to realize that Franklin may have been considering doing something rash and should have done more to prevent it. If it is revealed later that Rush did indeed directly intend to manipulate Franklin to try the chair then it was an extremely cold blooded action. It also doesn’t make a lot of sense. Rush would know that if someone did indeed volunteer to try the chair it would best be handled in a controlled and supervised fashion. Not only would it be far safer for the volunteer but would have a much better chance of success. He would also know that if it turned out badly then they would learn more to prevent it from happening again. And if one of Rush’s team did use the chair in an unauthorized fashion then Rush would be blamed for it and would likely be prohibited from ever trying it again.

I think Young has been too hard on Rush and Rush’s lack of people and communication skills have in a large part brought it on. The instance on the Ice planet where he advised Colonel Young to abandon Lt Scott is a perfect example. Anyone with a semblance of people skills would know that Young would never prematurely abandon Scott and to advise him to do so would come across as terribly callous and it would only serve to alienate himself in the eyes of the others. Even if Rush had a disregard of human life it was very foolish thing to do.

The situation at the end of Light is another example. After Rush and Eli’s actions led to the safe return of the shuttle the group was celebrating. Rush walked up and Young extended a warm and gracious offer to join them. Rush rudely refused and snubbed him. Young reacted angrily and assumed that the reason for Rush’s refusal was that he had fore knowledge that the Destiny was going to refuel in the star and not be destroyed by it. I think Young’s conclusion was unwarranted but I certainly could understand how he may think that way about Rush. Rush was very rude and should have sat with them. He should have been smart enough to realize that stranding everyone on a distant spaceship was going to cause great dislike for him among the crew and that he needed to work very hard to regain their trust and friendship. Of course I also realize it is his lack of people and communication skills that fuels the conflict that the show’s dramatic tension revolves around.

Rush could not have had a foreknowledge of the ship’s refueling in the star is because it would not have been in his best interest to allow the shuttle to depart. Loosing 17 people, a shuttle, and most if not all of the supplies would have been insane. He would not have gained anything from the act and it would have seriously jeopardized his survival. Rush is far too pragmatic to ever have considered this. I think the reason he ignored Young’s accusation was he was angry and felt it didn't deserve the dignity of a reply. Young in this instance was unfair to Rush but Rush’s anti-social behavior fueled Young’s distrust and dislike of him.

My reading of Wright and Cooper description of Rush has led to my reanalysis of the intent behind Rush’s actions and dialog. I can understand how Young’s distrust and dislike of Rush has grown and grown and how he has increasingly viewed his actions as more and more self-serving, reckless, threatening and mutinous. I can also understand how Rush has come to view Young as unable to make the necessary life and death decisions and was increasingly unfit to command. I can understand how Rush would feel the need to try to frame him to force him to step aside and I can understand how Young could view his latest attempt as an exile worthy transgression. Ultimately a perfect storm of conflict, tension and misunderstanding came to a head between them in their final confrontative brawl - where a frustrated, angry and beaten Rush defiantly and unrepentantly stood up to a fed up, this is your last chance to get in line Young – and was marooned.

[VJC]

I disagree with you, Jack would not have shot Rush.

No, Jack would have threatened to push Rush out an airlock after his first scheme; he would have been publicly left on a planet after the second to deter anyone else (i.e. Wray) from making a move for control.