"we'll never be done"

[Girlbot]

I think, had rush said 'yeah, we're done', then young woulda pulled him up and they would have went back to the gate, with or without a 'but we need to study this ship/we don't have time' argument.

but when rush said 'we'll never be done' he was saying 'i will never stop trying to get control' and that's when young said 'to heck with this crap, i don't got time to deal with this' and he decided to leave him

It is amazing how many times Sky and I agree.
Rush left Young no other option. I think Rush was given an opportunity and instead of agreeing to sop, he condemned himself.

[Alan Wake]

Young has shown himself as an honorable man; stranding someone when they are likely to die is a very drastic measure and out of character for him. I think he just wanted to confront Rush, beat him up and cow him into acquiescence. If he went to the planet intending to strand him he wouldn’t have bothered to ask the question “are we done”. He would have just beaten him unconscious and left. When they fought and Rush refused to relent Young got even angrier and made his decision then to leave him. Young has a temper and it probably played a factor in his decision.

In the past I have been a staunch supporter of the view that Young made the right decision to strand Rush and that he deserved it. I based my reasoning on the assumption that Young should have made a threat assessment that Rush was a sufficient and immediate enough threat to the safety and protection of the Destiny’s crew to necessitate his removal. Imo the only justification for a decision so drastic would have been a sincere belief that Rush represented such a danger. The core determinants of such a threat assessment is an appraisal of Rush’s intent.

I read that ‘Wright and Cooper intended the character to be very different from any previous main characters in the Stargate franchise, "somebody who is not the hero, not the villain, and more of a very flawed and complex person” ’.

After reading this and everyone else’s views I have revisited my assessment of the threat Rush posed to the Destiny and softened my views. Wright and Cooper would not have made that statement if they intended to portray Rush all the way to the villain side which is how I and many others are now viewing him.

Rush made a comment that he deemed the finding of the Destiny as the single most important discovery since the Stargate. Given Wright and Cooper’s statement, I believe that Rush was sincere in his belief of the value of the Destiny find and was also sincere in his belief that the potential benefit in knowledge and new technology to mankind from the discovery would justify whatever costs he and the rest of the 80 plus people had to pay. This is the reason Rush decided to dial the 9th Chevron’s address instead of any uninhabited planet in the Milky Way Galaxy that would have safely returned everyone home. At the time, I think he believed this may have been mankind’s only chance to ever arrive at the address. Apparently the Icarus planet with its radioactive core was very rare in the galaxy; it provided an enormous amount of energy that could be tapped and used to dial the vastly distant 9th Chevron address. Imo, during the evacuation, with the destruction of the planet imminent, Rush surmised that this may represent the only chance to ever successful dial the address; so he chose to unilaterally gamble with all their lives sending them to an unknown destination. I think he was fully aware that in all likelihood they may never return. I am neither denying the terrible harm that has already befallen the 80 plus people on the Destiny nor minimizing the hardship and ongoing peril they will face in the future. I am only suggesting that viewing his action from this perspective paints his intent in a much less evil light, at least in my mind. If it turns out that valuable information is gained from the Destiny, then history may regard his actions favorably. His contention he was doing it for the ‘great good’ may have been valid.

Rush is arrogant, has very poor people skills and shuns contact with others. I wouldn’t be surprised if an upcoming episode presents backstory that illustrates how the bereavement he experienced from the tragic death of his wife led to a total withdrawal from humanity and a consequent loss of empathy and a fear of any social attachments, and is what has driven him in his single minded pursuit of his work.

From the beginning on the Destiny and probably earlier, Rush and Young have butted heads. If Rush had better explained to Young and the others the importance of the Icarus Project to him and what he thought its value to the Earth and all of mankind would be, it would have gone a long way to help their understanding of him and lessen their resentment. Of course if he had done so it would have removed much of what the dramatic tension the show has been based on.

Rush is somewhat Machiavellian in his approach to life and the accomplishment of his goals. I don’t believe he is evil just very pragmatic and is as other posters have indicated utilitarian in his approach to life. In many circumstances he believes the ‘ends justifies the means’.

The show so far has revolved around the conflict Rush and Young have had. Neither party understands each other well. Rush views Young as unable to make life and death command decisions and to see the bigger picture. Young views Rush as self-serving, reckless and displaying a callous disregard for human life. Both are right and both are wrong.

Unfortunately, as time has passed their conflict has worsened. Young has attributed more and more “evil” motives to Rush’s actions and trusts him less and less and Rush has felt more and more disliked and distrusted by Young and his attempts to understand the Destiny restricted.

The chair incident is a perfect example. At first I agreed with Young’s assessment that Rush took advantage of Franklin’s desperation and set up a situation where he would be able to rashly try the chair out on himself. Now, I think Rush was probably in too much in a hurry to learn about the chair and didn’t take enough safeguards and Franklin made a very foolish decision on his own. Rush was smart enough to realize that Franklin may have been considering doing something rash and should have done more to prevent it. If it is revealed later that Rush did indeed directly intend to manipulate Franklin to try the chair then it was an extremely cold blooded action. It also doesn’t make a lot of sense. Rush would know that if someone did indeed volunteer to try the chair it would best be handled in a controlled and supervised fashion. Not only would it be far safer for the volunteer but would have a much better chance of success. He would also know that if it turned out badly then they would learn more to prevent it from happening again. And if one of Rush’s team did use the chair in an unauthorized fashion then Rush would be blamed for it and would likely be prohibited from ever trying it again.

I think Young has been too hard on Rush and Rush’s lack of people and communication skills have in a large part brought it on. The instance on the Ice planet where he advised Colonel Young to abandon Lt Scott is a perfect example. Anyone with a semblance of people skills would know that Young would never prematurely abandon Scott and to advise him to do so would come across as terribly callous and it would only serve to alienate himself in the eyes of the others. Even if Rush had a disregard of human life it was very foolish thing to do.

The situation at the end of Light is another example. After Rush and Eli’s actions led to the safe return of the shuttle the group was celebrating. Rush walked up and Young extended a warm and gracious offer to join them. Rush rudely refused and snubbed him. Young reacted angrily and assumed that the reason for Rush’s refusal was that he had fore knowledge that the Destiny was going to refuel in the star and not be destroyed by it. I think Young’s conclusion was unwarranted but I certainly could understand how he may think that way about Rush. Rush was very rude and should have sat with them. He should have been smart enough to realize that stranding everyone on a distant spaceship was going to cause great dislike for him among the crew and that he needed to work very hard to regain their trust and friendship. Of course I also realize it is his lack of people and communication skills that fuels the conflict that the show’s dramatic tension revolves around.

Rush could not have had a foreknowledge of the ship’s refueling in the star is because it would not have been in his best interest to allow the shuttle to depart. Loosing 17 people, a shuttle, and most if not all of the supplies would have been insane. He would not have gained anything from the act and it would have seriously jeopardized his survival. Rush is far too pragmatic to ever have considered this. I think the reason he ignored Young’s accusation was he was angry and felt it didn't deserve the dignity of a reply. Young in this instance was unfair to Rush but Rush’s anti-social behavior fueled Young’s distrust and dislike of him.

My reading of Wright and Cooper description of Rush has led to my reanalysis of the intent behind Rush’s actions and dialog. I can understand how Young’s distrust and dislike of Rush has grown and grown and how he has increasingly viewed his actions as more and more self-serving, reckless, threatening and mutinous. I can also understand how Rush has come to view Young as unable to make the necessary life and death decisions and was increasingly unfit to command. I can understand how Rush would feel the need to try to frame him to force him to step aside and I can understand how Young could view his latest attempt as an exile worthy transgression. Ultimately a perfect storm of conflict, tension and misunderstanding came to a head between them in their final confrontative brawl - where a frustrated, angry and beaten Rush defiantly and unrepentantly stood up to a fed up, this is your last chance to get in line Young – and was marooned.

Talk about the most well written, thought provoking post on any one subject I've seen on this forum.

You're my hero Sir.

[Blackhole]

Talk about the most well written, thought provoking post on any one subject I've seen on this forum.

You're my hero Sir.

Thank you very much for your very gracious compliment. I did work very hard at getting all my thoughts and supporting arguments out in one post.

[EllieVee]

I think that, given his inability to retaliate physically for the beating he got, Rush retaliated verbally out of frustration. And as I've mentioned before, I do believe his fury was enough to override his common sense, because he hates having his personal space invaded, or being touched. He's obviously intimidated by the soldiers.

Where on earth do you get that from? Recall in Air where Greer has a gun pointed in Rush's face and despite Scott telling him to put the gun down, wasn't going to do so, until Scott pushed him. Rush wasn't remotely afraid. He's not intimidated.

[Skydiver]

no, he's not.

because he knows the military mind, and by and large, they follow orders. Murdering unarmed civilians is generally against orders and against the rules, so he knew that greer would never pull that trigger. Not in front of Young

Now, had Rush and Greer been alone, he might have felt differently

[Blackhole]

no, he's not.

because he knows the military mind, and by and large, they follow orders. Murdering unarmed civilians is generally against orders and against the rules, so he knew that greer would never pull that trigger. Not in front of Young

Now, had Rush and Greer been alone, he might have felt differently

I agree.

[EllieVee]

no, he's not.

because he knows the military mind, and by and large, they follow orders. Murdering unarmed civilians is generally against orders and against the rules, so he knew that greer would never pull that trigger. Not in front of Young

Now, had Rush and Greer been alone, he might have felt differently

Young wasn't there.

Nor was Rush afraid or intimidated when left alone with Greer in Air III.

[Daro]

Hmm, ok. Intimidated wasn't the right word...especially after rewatching a few episodes. He's not intimidated, but disdainful of them. I imagine the typical soldier represents a lot of things that Rush hates because they aren't like him. They follow another's lead (Rush is chaotic and doesn't take orders,) they seem to lack self control and resort to brute force to solve their problems, in his mind. Like he said in Air III, "Little boys playing soldier." Maybe I got the idea because I imagine that as a child, Rush was probably bullied by bigger kids. He's small, he's not physically fit, and he's very intelligent. The kind of person who gets pushed around a lot. Perhaps his attitude and general outlook on the military is linked to this, and he's learned that he can outsmart them. He also has a healthy sense of his own abilities and his value. When a military person tries to make him conform to their sense of order, or tries to intimidate him, he gets very angry. His frustration in the argument over water with Greer in Air III was apparent.
I don't think he understands military people at all. He has these prejudices against them, and thinks he can predict what they'll do. Maybe, after being beaten in 'Justice', he'll start re-evaluating his views.

[EllieVee]

I think it's more likely that if Rush was bullied at all (apparently on television, no one can just be odd for the sake it; they always have to have had a tragic past ), that would have stopped once he learned something of chemistry in school.

[Daro]

I just love tragic pasts, that's all. If I can pity a character, I can love them more.

Hehe, chemistry. Now I'm imagining all sorts of fun high school revenge pranks young Nicky could have pulled.

In all seriousness, I prefer to think that he wasn't that bold as a younger man. Drastic circumstances have brought out the worst in him - or the best, depending on how you view his actions. I think it's a bit of both.

[EllieVee]

Does not being bold equal being bullied?

[VJC]

I just love tragic pasts, that's all. If I can pity a character, I can love them more.

You can pity rush? I've been wanting to push him out of an airlock for a while now. He's been a disruptive force, making command hard. I'm surprised that Young didn't have him locked up in Destiny's equivalent of a brig long ago. I would have.

[Commander Zelix]

You can pity rush? I've been wanting to push him out of an airlock for a while now. He's been a disruptive force, making command hard. I'm surprised that Young didn't have him locked up in Destiny's equivalent of a brig long ago. I would have.

Normally, he would have been locked up, but we need to believe that he's so important to the Destiny crew due to his knowledge and science skills that they need to deal with him some other way. I think this aspect of the show is well done. Maybe they should confine him to the science lab or have him followed by a kino at all time. LOL (I'm joking since the show need him to be somewhat free to do is evil/strange deeds)

[VJC]

Normally, he would have been locked up, but we need to believe that he's so important to the Destiny crew due to his knowledge and science skills that they need to deal with him some other way. I think this aspect of the show is well done. Maybe they should confine him to the science lab or have him followed by a kino at all time. LOL (I'm joking since the show need him to be somewhat free to do is evil/strange deeds)

Exactly, I don't understand why he's wasn't confined to his quarters and the lab\control room almost straight away (well as you say, it due to at of plot, but give us an in story reason please).

Hopefully on his return (I'm guessing he'll be back on board soon) they do something about his behaviour.

[Commander Zelix]

Exactly, I don't understand why he's wasn't confined to his quarters and the lab\control room almost straight away (well as you say, it due to at of plot, but give us an in story reason please).

Hopefully on his return (I'm guessing he'll be back on board soon) they do something about his behaviour.

Still, he can refuse to work under those conditions. "Yes, I want to survive but without liberty life ain't worth living. Call me when you need me and agree to my terms. ".

I think the writers did a good job at making Rush indispensable. That way they need to find a way to work with him as long as he's not a danger to the entire crew. As Scott about said in "Air 3" they can have confidence in him when the Destiny crew interest are the same as his. For example, stopping the Destiny from exploding, repairing basic aspect of the Destiny, finding food and resources, fighting off some aggressive aliens...