'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Saquist]

Rush vs Young

1. If you genuinely believe that someone in authority doesn't have the best interests of your group at heart then yes, you have every right to undermine them. In theory I could relate to Rush on this.

2. Having said that, there are some lines you do not cross. If your target is as bad as you think he is then you shouldn't need to frame him for anything. Enough genuine skeletons should be there somewhere.

3. So my next question has to be, is Young genuinely immoral or amoral? Answer, to the best of my knowledge no. He's trying to get his guys back to Earth to the best of his ability. If anything it's Rush's morality that I've questioned on multiple occasions.

Therefore, while Young certainly wasn't and never has been whiter than white, I'd trust him ahead of Rush, despite his failings.

Doesn't matter. He has been known to resort to violence if he believes he has to. That makes him a legitamate suspect.

It really does not.
Tendency must have a motive.
In fact to take such action as she did there must be outstanding evidence at least in one of the accepted. This is the difference between those that need a lawful reason and those who do not. Wray did not. You can see she wasn't interested in blind justice. Her actual suspect she allowed free access to the ship even as he stepped down as commander.....

Why because she got what she wanted. Not Justice. Command.

Real justice has standards and you must meet those standards before pursuing or taking action in an official capacity. Most people are ignorant of the standards. They believe that suspicion is enough.

In criminal law, a suspect is someone who is under suspicion, often formally announced as being under investigation by law enforcement officials. Probable cause for an arrest exists when the facts and circumstances within the arresting officer's knowledge are sufficient to warrant a prudent person to believe that a suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime.

Now she is the prosecution in this investigation and turns out to be the Enforcer aswell. Her action as the enforcer or commander show that she has a severe bias against Greer. What's worse is that she doesn't need any proof to back her actions.

And the sexism of this statement is underwhelming.

I expected that.
I"m an observer.
I comment on what I see. I don't always see good things.

[Deevil]

Why because she got what she wanted. Not Justice. Command.

There is no proof of this what-so-ever. Nor have I observed anything that leads to that end. What she wants is to get home.

I expected that.
I"m an observer.
I comment on what I see. I don't always see good things.

Oooookay. That's nice.

[TheLastSunset]

I love Rush's logical thinking here. I definitely think he should be commanding the Destiny. I think it would be hilarious to see Young get beat up by Telford or someone else after his attacks on people. I'm curious if Rush will be vengeful against Young, but he's seemed so logical thus far. But it'd be funny and satisfying if he does something back at Young. Not that I support any type of punishment.

[Saquist]

There is no proof of this what-so-ever. Nor have I observed anything that leads to that end. What she wants is to get home.

Not true.
The proof is the inaction. You can ignore it but it doesn't go away.
Young should have been confined. Her actions against Greer were not in accordance with her prosecution and her lack of actions despite the evidence against Young is not in accord with the prosecution either. She takes action against the military that isn't warranted by code or expectation of leadership.

Her actions specifically show once she has command or control that justice is no real concern.

Oooookay. That's nice.

It is?
How odd.

[Maj_Cliffhanger]

You know, a thought just occurred to me.... There was a discussion a few episodes back, 'Water' I believe, wherein Greer was ordered confined by Telford and people were saying that Greer committed mutiny by asking Scott to help him. Now, I know Rush isn't military but he IS under Young's command. I didn't agree with the thought of Greer committing mutiny, but Rush.... If this were the high seas and Rush tried something like this, he'd have been hung! Given the situation of them being stranded on a ship in the middle of space, I think the correlation has relevance.

Just a thought. (shrug!)

[MattSilver 3k]

You know, a thought just occurred to me.... There was a discussion a few episodes back, 'Water' I believe, wherein Greer was ordered confined by Telford and people were saying that Greer committed mutiny by asking Scott to help him. Now, I know Rush isn't military but he IS under Young's command. I didn't agree with the thought of Greer committing mutiny, but Rush.... If this were the high seas and Rush tried something like this, he'd have been hung! Given the situation of them being stranded on a ship in the middle of space, I think the correlation has relevance.

Just a thought. (shrug!)

It was in Earth, and good point.

[Saquist]

Rush is too important.

[Girlbot]

Rush is too important.

Rush thinks he is too important.
No one is indispensable, they will compensate for him

[LtColCarter]

Rush thinks he is too important.
No one is indispensable, they will compensate for him

Couldn't agree with ya more!

[Saquist]

But why?

[harakiri]

I wonder if those who thinks Wray should be in command have watched "Justice" at all. She did everything wrong. It`s not her fault that Franklin used the chair,but she gave the "go" to Rush.
It is her foul that she cant handle the personal issues she have with the best soldier they have.
These things alone are reason enough to never want her as a leader on Destiny. In addition to this
she is an IOA person,and I have never got the feeling the IOA brings any good at all. They always seems to have an agenda on their own. And what about the fact that she has never got that promotion with 4 tries?

Young might not be the BEST leader,but he is a leader with respect from the military personal on the Destiny.

[jelgate]

I wonder if those who thinks Wray should be in command have watched "Justice" at all. She did everything wrong. It`s not her fault that Franklin used the chair,but she gave the "go" to Rush.
It is her foul that she cant handle the personal issues she have with the best soldier they have.
These things alone are reason enough to never want her as a leader on Destiny. In addition to this
she is an IOA person,and I have never got the feeling the IOA brings any good at all. They always seems to have an agenda on their own. And what about the fact that she has never got that promotion with 4 tries?

Young might not be the BEST leader,but he is a leader with respect from the military personal on the Destiny.

The reason Wray is a bad leader is that she has half the qualifications. She has the mangerial pencil position and distribution of resources that comes with leading. But a respected leader leds by example. We expect if it came down to it a good leader would be willing to make the same sacrifices as the person he or she leads. And that is what Wray lacks and why she isn't a good leader.

[nx01a]

If leading by example is how it's done, then going from being framed for murder to actually commiting murder makes Young a great leader.

[Avenger]

She has no tact either, as evidenced by the way she handled taking Greer and the other Marines off the off ship mission list. Not only are Marines the best troops for the job as far as providing security, but she made the decision out of spite to the determent of the great good and safety of the crew.

Additionally, she's wasn't very smart in the way she handled the Greer situation. By passing the established military chain of command, she brought the confrontation with Greer upon herself.

[jelgate]

If leading by example is how it's done, then going from being framed for murder to actually commiting murder makes Young a great leader.

Attempted and its more manslaughter then murder.

And your missing the point. People can't respect a leader who isn't willing to make the same sacrifices of those he or she leads