'Justice' (110) General Discussion

[Stewart5]

Hey, I got het up with her attempted resignation too........ Haha. Figuratively.....erm....yes....

[Deevil]

Saquist, Garrow, Deevil, and Ellie - if you want to get into a discussion of the interprestation of words and how you define a debate then fatastic. Go for it. Just not on this thread OK? Take it to another thread in Off Topic or discuss amongst yourselves off forum. Only a certain amount of this type of discussion is relevant to the topic. At the moment it is veering very close to that dividing line on the other side of which is Off Topic. Also, and possibly more importantly, it is also very very boring for everyone else.

It's very boring for me too - that's why I stopped discussing it (minus a tongue in cheek comment or 2). I just want to discuss the topic - the episode 'Justice', nothing more or less.

So on the topic... does anyone else want James to actually have some meat in her role?

As for Wray, she was obviously there are a member of the IOA - and thus they were likely funding the base at least in part and they had some control over it... Kinda like they did with Atlantis.

Wray vs Chloe thing - I don't think there will be any issue between them. They had their pissing contest, know where each other stands and will leave it at that. It's the guys who don't seem able to make concessions and/or understand each other.

[jelgate]

It's very boring for me too - that's why I stopped discussing it (minus a tongue in cheek comment or 2). I just want to discuss the topic - the episode 'Justice', nothing more or less.

So on the topic... does anyone else want James to actually have some meat in her role?

Can I make at least one crude joke?

I think we want all the regular and recurring characters to have "meat." I have to say looking back at my favorite scifi shows the recurring characters are just as developed as the regulars. So in that regards I say yes is addition to Dr. Brody, Sgt. Riley and as many recurring as possible in addition to the regulars of course

[EllieVee]

Can I make at least one crude joke?

I think we want all the regular and recurring characters to have "meat." I have to say looking back at my favorite scifi shows the recurring characters are just as developed as the regulars. So in that regards I say yes is addition to Dr. Brody, Sgt. Riley and as many recurring as possible in addition to the regulars of course

That's a question for me. Is it Dr Brody or Mr Brody? Dr Volker? Mr Volker? We know it's Dr Park but the others don't seem to have doctorates. And is it important to have them or does industry experience count for more?

[Saquist]

And again you misunderstand because your not military. Poke your head in the military thread in the general Stargate discussion board, see how much piss taking there is of the various services. You can see how my good friend Garrowan and I rip it out of each other for serving in different service branches. But in the end it's friendly interservice rivalry, but we like and respect each other, and realise that in modern warfare we rely on what each force brings to the battlefield. Don't misunderstand Navy guys ripping out of the Airforce, I as army do it all the time, but the same ideas, the same rules apply, loyalty is prized especially with people you serve with and that doesn't change whatever branch of the military your in. Also maybe you should try actually doing some research about Airforce personnel, there are plenty who see battle up close and personnel.

A type of Gang mentality.
A type of Mob mentality. (possibly)
The services share the same responsibility and have their own turf. Each feel the others are inferior. There are skirmishes when they intermingle socially. It is a normal human social mechanism that shares similar attributes with most grouping behavior.

This may be explored by SGU through Young's unfortunate decision to strand Rush.
Most shows don't explore actual human behavior better than Sci Fi. Drama is not exploring though, it's voyeurism. Exploring is seeking and coming to an understanding. Human behavior is remarkably consistent in large groups.

[Saquist]

That's why House M.D is so fascinating and a popular show.

[blackluster]

However...
It doesn't quite fall in line with with criminal mischief and the deception he's continue to undertake.
I couldn't justify deception of Telford and Young as part of addiction issues.

I believe your first point doesn't work since, as I mentioned, the Icarus gate was tied into an unstable powersource in a manner we have never seen anywhere in Stargate canon. Explosion precedents simply don't apply I believe, since in those cases the manner in which explosive energy transfers to the gate cannot be assumed to be the same as a special conduit to an unstable power source.

In relation to his "criminal mischief", I have already discussed elsewhere in this thread how I feel that is related to Rush actually perceiving Young's leadership abilities aboard Destiny as completely inadequate. His opinion of Young's leadership aboard Destiny could only have come about after they arrived on Destiny. His will to undermine Young's command would not have had a legitimate reason to manifest itself before that, certainly not in his demeanor and certainly not in a life and death situation.

I'll assume the second part of you post was an accidental quote of mine.

Anyway, Rush vs Young is gettin old and overdone. Does anyone think there will be fallout with Wray and the crew, and specifically Wray and Chloe?

I doubt it, they would both have to be rather childish to harbor anything through that exchange though the writers may feel there is enough there for a future conflict. I think Chloe's education already makes her more qualified as a leader and the IOA may feel there is a better vehicle to manipulate in her than in Wray. The fact that Chloe has Eli's ear if she wants to use it may become significant as well.

So on the topic... does anyone else want James to actually have some meat in her role?

I'd love for her to get more opportunities. My only concern would be whether her acting skill is equal to the task, since I know nothing of her previous work. I'm a big fan of female characters that are written in an unorthodox manner and there is certainly an opportunity to do that with the Lt James character.

That's a question for me. Is it Dr Brody or Mr Brody? Dr Volker? Mr Volker? We know it's Dr Park but the others don't seem to have doctorates. And is it important to have them or does industry experience count for more?

I think Brody's title is Mr. and Volker has a doctorate. As to the second question, it's really tough to say. Industry experience and what it gives you is dependent on where you work. Also, considering the kind of tech Stargate scientists are required to work with, I doubt much of it is industrialized to the point where work experience would necessarily help. I suppose parts of the Earth starships are handled by contractors, since the private sector are the only ones who have the money to front for heavy industry I think would be required to manufacture the Hammond's hull plating for instance, or the weapon system. Having said that, I think they would predominantly select doctorate researchers who are already in a mindset of developing theory and pushing new ideas. In industry, the engineer's mindset is on cost, so one doesn't toy with new ideas unless you absolutely have to, since research costs time which costs money and the road to money is paved with trade-offs. Stuff doesn't have to be the best, just good enough.

[aretood2]

So no one wants to talk about Chloe and the mock trial?

[Saquist]

In relation to his "criminal mischief", I have already discussed elsewhere in this thread how I feel that is related to Rush actually perceiving Young's leadership abilities aboard Destiny as completely inadequate. His opinion of Young's leadership aboard Destiny could only have come about after they arrived on Destiny. His will to undermine Young's command would not have had a legitimate reason to manifest itself before that, certainly not in his demeanor and certainly not in a life and death situation.

I recall some difficulties even before they passed through to Destiny, were there not?
Nevertheless you have good points in this regard.
It's good to see logic in deduction.
You have a reasonable expectation.

I'll assume the second part of you post was an accidental quote of mine.

It is correct to assume that was my error, yes.

[Saquist]

So no one wants to talk about Chloe and the mock trial?

It was so....brief.

[blackluster]

I recall some difficulties even before they passed through to Destiny, were there not?
Nevertheless you have good points in this regard.
It's good to see logic in deduction.
You have a reasonable expectation.

Yeah before they went through to Destiny it was shown that Young and Rush were not 100% on the same page, but no more than one would expect, since in the scene to which I'm referring, Young makes it clear that he didn't want to push the test. His orders at that time were perfectly reasonable and Rush admits so as well.

So no one wants to talk about Chloe and the mock trial?

What about the mock trial and Chloe do you want to talk about?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

A type of Gang mentality.
A type of Mob mentality. (possibly)
The services share the same responsibility and have their own turf. Each feel the others are inferior. There are skirmishes when they intermingle socially. It is a normal human social mechanism that shares similar attributes with most grouping behavior.

This may be explored by SGU through Young's unfortunate decision to strand Rush.
Most shows don't explore actual human behavior better than Sci Fi. Drama is not exploring though, it's voyeurism. Exploring is seeking and coming to an understanding. Human behavior is remarkably consistent in large groups.

Oh dear again you don’t understand. There is a friendly rivalry between services, I as someone in the Army will always take the opportunity to have a crack at the Airforce, Navy and Marines. But that’s it, its joking around. I don’t feel the Army is superior to the other services because we all do different jobs. Further the different services don’t share responsibility, each have their area of expertise, I have no knowledge of how to fly a plane for instance but I’m damn glad of having the Airforce as backup. Similarly a pilot can drop a bomb, but he can’t hold and secure an area like an infantryman can. On the Destiny there are both Marines and Airforce personnel. There has been no interservice rivalry between the two groups on the show because it won’t happen. Jibes happen in a social situation, but modern warfare is built around interservice cooperation and both the Marines and the Airforce personnel will work together, because even when the services do cross into each other’s sphere of work, you don’t squabble when you’re trying to get a job done, and you know that Airforce, Army, Marines or Navy, the man or women next to you will still have the same code as you and won’t give a damn which serice branch you happen to be from.

[SupremeLegate]

Oh dear again you don’t understand. There is a friendly rivalry between services, I as someone in the Army will always take the opportunity to have a crack at the Airforce, Navy and Marines. But that’s it, its joking around. I don’t feel the Army is superior to the other services because we all do different jobs. Further the different services don’t share responsibility, each have their area of expertise, I have no knowledge of how to fly a plane for instance but I’m damn glad of having the Airforce as backup. Similarly a pilot can drop a bomb, but he can’t hold and secure an area like an infantryman can. On the Destiny there are both Marines and Airforce personnel. There has been no interservice rivalry between the two groups on the show because it won’t happen. Jibes happen in a social situation, but modern warfare is built around interservice cooperation and both the Marines and the Airforce personnel will work together, because even when the services do cross into each other’s sphere of work, you don’t squabble when you’re trying to get a job done, and you know that Airforce, Army, Marines or Navy, the man or women next to you will still have the same code as you and won’t give a damn which serice branch you happen to be from.

It’s like a sibling rivalry; you may tease and pick on each other, but you still have each others back.

[Saquist]

Oh dear again you don’t understand. There is a friendly rivalry between services, I as someone in the Army will always take the opportunity to have a crack at the Airforce, Navy and Marines. But that’s it, its joking around. I don’t feel the Army is superior to the other services because we all do different jobs. Further the different services don’t share responsibility, each have their area of expertise, I have no knowledge of how to fly a plane for instance but I’m damn glad of having the Airforce as backup. Similarly a pilot can drop a bomb, but he can’t hold and secure an area like an infantryman can. On the Destiny there are both Marines and Airforce personnel. There has been no interservice rivalry between the two groups on the show because it won’t happen. Jibes happen in a social situation, but modern warfare is built around interservice cooperation and both the Marines and the Airforce personnel will work together, because even when the services do cross into each other’s sphere of work, you don’t squabble when you’re trying to get a job done, and you know that Airforce, Army, Marines or Navy, the man or women next to you will still have the same code as you and won’t give a damn which serice branch you happen to be from.

Of course we're speaking social dynamics not working dynamics.

[Saquist]

It’s like a sibling rivalry; you may tease and pick on each other, but you still have each others back.

But what when choosing between Airforce airmen that has committed a crime and a sailor that has committed a crime.
Would the truth be backed or the social bond by backed?

You've successfully attributed family as a metaphor.
Family dynamics favor bond over justice.