Young is Clearly Not a Villain.

[Harkonnen]

Young may not be a villain but he is one of the most stupid people in the stargate franchise.

An invading force is coming through the gate, into a completely sealed off room with no options of retreat and they had the power to stop them instantly by having the gate room evacuated of air.

Yet they still manage to gain a foothold.

How stupid can one be? The LA people wouldn't have been able to even radio back through the gate in a vacuum to tell the others it isn't safe.

Also, considering he had not long ago vented the atmosphere in telford's room and then revived him. Could have easily saved telford's body.

[EllieVee]

So then do you think he believes in 'the greater good' or not? You seem to want to have it both ways now.

Rather like Young really.

Young reacts on his emotions every single time and he's a paranoid, uber-whackjob. Is that a villain? Well, yes, it is given what Young has said and done.

[jelgate]

Rather like Young really.

Young reacts on his emotions every single time and he's a paranoid, uber-whackjob. Is that a villain? Well, yes, it is given what Young has said and done.

That seems to describe everyone on Destiny. A vast majority of them are a litte paranoid and act on their emotions

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

That seems to describe everyone on Destiny. A vast majority of them are a litte paranoid and act on their emotions

given everything that's happened to them, maybe they're right to be paranoid, after all, everyone really is after them

[ONeill4tW]

No one but Rush and Telford knew that the stones connections were severed when Telford's body came through the gate.

You misunderstand.

Yes, Young does not know that the connection was disconnected, however that does not mean he was not concerned about Telford's life. If he vented the gateroom he would still kill Telford regardless of whether Rush was inhabiting that body or not. Thus Rush believes that Young chose to not vent the gateroom not because he cared for Rush or anything, but because he cared for Telford.

If he kllls Telford's body, Telford will die in Rush's body.

Hence the accusation.

Young cared more for a traitor than anyone on board the ship. It makes him gross negligent in this conflict. He chose personal reasons over logical reasons.

Does it make him a villain? From a certain point of view it might.

[Blackhole]

You misunderstand.

Yes, Young does not know that the connection was disconnected, however that does not mean he was not concerned about Telford's life. If he vented the gateroom he would still kill Telford regardless of whether Rush was inhabiting that body or not. Thus Rush believes that Young chose to not vent the gateroom not because he cared for Rush or anything, but because he cared for Telford.

If he kllls Telford's body, Telford will die in Rush's body.

Hence the accusation.

Young cared more for a traitor than anyone on board the ship. It makes him gross negligent in this conflict. He chose personal reasons over logical reasons.

Does it make him a villain? From a certain point of view it might.

What happens if the LA have short term breathing apparatus with them? Young vents the atmosphere they put on their equipment and don't go down and Telford's body dies killing both of them? Besides if they were all disabled then what happens for the next two episodes? Young didn't vent the room because the writers didn't write it that way. Imo trying to suggest he is incompetent is over analyzing the episode.

[cnnrstrav]

I don't understand how people can think like this, with this new show. I mean, these characters aren't heroes, they are humans not fit for this. Empathy please? The stress, constantly fighting for survival, in an almost completely alien environment, ON THE FARSIDE OF THE UNIVERSE, is insanely stressful. In this day and age though, I guess people wouldn't really be offing themselves, since they aren't doing it a lot now .

I mean, Young's stress level is probably the highest, next to Rush. He is the leader of everyone, even if people wouldn't like to think of him as such. And that as well causes more stress. He's doing an incredible job, under ALL THAT STRESS. I doubt any of us could do it. HA. I just can't believe people would think of him as a villain. He isn't some megalomaniac with a snake in his head, he's a human being, trying his best to survive, and insure the survival of his people. Killing Telford and Rush would've been Machiavellian, not "Villain-like" Its like people can't even empathize these days.

[ONeill4tW]

What happens if the LA have short term breathing apparatus with them? Young vents the atmosphere they put on their equipment and don't go down and Telford's body dies killing both of them? Besides if they were all disabled then what happens for the next two episodes? Young didn't vent the room because the writers didn't write it that way. Imo trying to suggest he is incompetent is over analyzing the episode.

So what if the Lucians had oxygen masks to deal with Young venting the gateroom? At least then Young can go back and say "I did what I could" rather than say "I chose not to because I wanted to save one man and that cost us lives." We can beat around the "What if" bush all we like and it still won't change the fact that the writers wrote him incompetent.

But that is beside the point and has no relevance to the argument as to who Young thought was inhabiting Telford's body and why he chose to save that person rather than kill him along with the rest of the Lucians. I agree with Rush, Young did it to save Telford, not Rush.

[Blackhole]

I don't understand how people can think like this, with this new show. I mean, these characters aren't heroes, they are humans not fit for this. Empathy please? The stress, constantly fighting for survival, in an almost completely alien environment, ON THE FARSIDE OF THE UNIVERSE, is insanely stressful. In this day and age though, I guess people wouldn't really be offing themselves, since they aren't doing it a lot now .

I mean, Young's stress level is probably the highest, next to Rush. He is the leader of everyone, even if people wouldn't like to think of him as such. And that as well causes more stress. He's doing an incredible job, under ALL THAT STRESS. I doubt any of us could do it. HA. I just can't believe people would think of him as a villain. He isn't some megalomaniac with a snake in his head, he's a human being, trying his best to survive, and insure the survival of his people. Killing Telford and Rush would've been Machiavellian, not "Villain-like" Its like people can't even empathize these days.

I agree that Young has the most difficult and thankless command of any leader in the history of the Stargate franchise and given the circumstances has done a good job. Imo his only real mistake was leaving Rush. Rush imo deserved a severe punishment for everything he had done on Destiny and to antagonize Young. If Young had dragged Rush back and thrown him in irons the whole problem could have been averted. Even if he had come clean that he confronted Rush about his framing attempt and Rush figuratively spit back in his face; they fought and Rush was knocked unconsciousness and he was unable to carry him back in time before the ship departed would have been better than lying about it.

[Blackhole]

So what if the Lucians had oxygen masks to deal with Young venting the gateroom? At least then Young can go back and say "I did what I could" rather than say "I chose not to because I wanted to save one man and that cost us lives." We can beat around the "What if" bush all we like and it still won't change the fact that the writers wrote him incompetent.

But that is beside the point and has no relevance to the argument as to who Young thought was inhabiting Telford's body and why he chose to save that person rather than kill him along with the rest of the Lucians. I agree with Rush, Young did it to save Telford, not Rush.

I disagree that the writers wrote him as incompetent. Venting the air in the gateroom would have been far different than when he did so in Telford's compartment. There it was a controlled environment and Young knew he could immediately get to Rush's body to revive him. In the gateroom he may not be able to get to Telford's body in time and it would kill both of them. He was unwilling to chance it. You are free to conclude as O'Neill did that he should have sacrificed both of them to avert the attack but I don't agree that choosing not to sacrifice two lives makes him incompetent.

And in all fairness O’Neill is a hypocrite; when the Replicators still had Sam he could have stopped them if he had used his disruptor weapon on their ship before it lifted off; he was unwilling to fire because it would have meant sacrificing her life to do so. In that instance the stakes were far higher than just the take over of a ship, our entire galaxy was at risk from a Replicator invasion.

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion that Young's purpose was to save Telford and not Rush but again it is an opinion. There is no way to get into Young's mind and know for sure that was what his intent was.

[Lahela]

With Rush stepping into it a few times

And Young hasn't?

Lolz, well I mean when there's people with guns shooting every where don't go running toward them. I don't mean to be sexist but if you're pregnant you shouldn't be in the line of fire like that.

Her actions annoyed me because she was violating a direct order and abandoning her post - she is the sum total of their medical expertise, so she should have stayed put in the inevitable event that there are injuries that need attention.

[garhkal]

No I don't think he would have hesitated. We already saw him subject Rush to a near death experience for the sake of Telford, and we saw him leave Rush in enemy captivity and under duress so that Telford could 'regain his strength'. He could easily chalk that up under the 'greater good' column without losing any sleep.

And what greater good did it serve? Also if he was really concerned about the "Greater good" he would have vente the air in the gateroom, before they got there, so as soon as the LA arrived, they would be dyiing off.. THAT way he would not have ha to worry about
A) them getting a beach head
B) them having some of his men prisoners
C) any of his people getting injured.
WELL other than rush.

[jelgate]

And Young hasn't?

Not really. Some of things he has done are morally questionable but they have always been for the best of the crew

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I don't understand how people can think like this, with this new show. I mean, these characters aren't heroes, they are humans not fit for this. Empathy please? The stress, constantly fighting for survival, in an almost completely alien environment, ON THE FARSIDE OF THE UNIVERSE, is insanely stressful. In this day and age though, I guess people wouldn't really be offing themselves, since they aren't doing it a lot now .

I mean, Young's stress level is probably the highest, next to Rush. He is the leader of everyone, even if people wouldn't like to think of him as such. And that as well causes more stress. He's doing an incredible job, under ALL THAT STRESS. I doubt any of us could do it. HA. I just can't believe people would think of him as a villain. He isn't some megalomaniac with a snake in his head, he's a human being, trying his best to survive, and insure the survival of his people. Killing Telford and Rush would've been Machiavellian, not "Villain-like" Its like people can't even empathize these days.

I've got empathy and yeah, *nods* at the bolded. I think it's easy to try to look at tv characters and want them to be heroes and it's harder to look at them and know that they're just as human as you are, in worse circumstances

I agree that Young has the most difficult and thankless command of any leader in the history of the Stargate franchise and given the circumstances has done a good job. Imo his only real mistake was leaving Rush. Rush imo deserved a severe punishment for everything he had done on Destiny and to antagonize Young. If Young had dragged Rush back and thrown him in irons the whole problem could have been averted. Even if he had come clean that he confronted Rush about his framing attempt and Rush figuratively spit back in his face; they fought and Rush was knocked unconsciousness and he was unable to carry him back in time before the ship departed would have been better than lying about it.

Now that's a fact and yes, it was a mistake, something Young would agree with. He's also, at least in his mind, just saved Rush's life by not venting the air in the gate room when he thought it was Rush down there. Maybe that should count for something? As Young has said, Rush is a lot of work, but people don't go to a lot of work for those they don't give a crap about.

[blackluster]

And what greater good did it serve? Also if he was really concerned about the "Greater good" he would have vente the air in the gateroom, before they got there, so as soon as the LA arrived, they would be dyiing off.. THAT way he would not have ha to worry about
A) them getting a beach head
B) them having some of his men prisoners
C) any of his people getting injured.
WELL other than rush.

I already made two posts after the one you quoted expanding on the idea. I recommend that you read them.