Young is Clearly Not a Villain.

[kwlafayette]

Also clear; he should never have made colonel.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Also clear; he should never have made colonel.

anyone can burn out; it doesn;t mean that he hasn't done things in the past that would warrant promotion

[Major_Griff]

anyone can burn out; it doesn;t mean that he hasn't done things in the past that would warrant promotion

I hope we find more out about his past as an SG tam leader.

[kwlafayette]

And what greater good did it serve? Also if he was really concerned about the "Greater good" he would have vente the air in the gateroom, before they got there, so as soon as the LA arrived, they would be dyiing off.. THAT way he would not have ha to worry about
A) them getting a beach head
B) them having some of his men prisoners
C) any of his people getting injured.
WELL other than rush.

D) all those extra people straining life support.
E) all the food and water those extra people would need.

Those extra people are not just a short term problem. And not just for the obvious hostiles with guns reasons.

I have a feeling Kiva is not Admiral Caine, she is in fact Janeway...

PS. With Young as Chakotay. It seems now that they are aboard, it is inevitable that they have to find a way to live and work together. Either that, or one side finds a way to kill the other side (and that would quite clearly be Kiva's side doing the killing. Young's side would lack the resolve.).

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I hope we find more out about his past as an SG tam leader.

me too

[kwlafayette]

D) all those extra people straining life support.
E) all the food and water those extra people would need.

Those extra people are not just a short term problem. And not just for the obvious hostiles with guns reasons.

I have a feeling Kiva is not Admiral Caine, she is in fact Janeway...

PS. Remember Eli, in the episode he specifically mentioned how he had shut down life support in the unused sections of the ship. Guaranteed, they are going to have Air part 4 sometime in season 2.

[Lahela]

Not really. Some of things he has done are morally questionable but they have always been for the best of the crew

That's just not true. Neither abandoning Rush on that planet nor impersonating both a subordinate and another member of the destiny crew in order to beat up on Telford were for the good of anybody. Way beyond morally questionable and well into criminal territory.

[Blackhole]

Now that's a fact and yes, it was a mistake, something Young would agree with. He's also, at least in his mind, just saved Rush's life by not venting the air in the gate room when he thought it was Rush down there. Maybe that should count for something? As Young has said, Rush is a lot of work, but people don't go to a lot of work for those they don't give a crap about.

I agree

[jelgate]

That's just not true. Neither abandoning Rush on that planet

Rush brought that on himself by framing one person of murder and then forcing one person to undergo some dangerous procedure.[/QUOTE]
Very villian like

nor impersonating both a subordinate and another member of the destiny crew in order to beat up on Telford were for the good of anybody. Way beyond morally questionable and well into criminal territory.

Thats one of those morally questionable things. I don't really think beating Telford up was an act of villiany. It was a selfish motive

[Kaiphantom]

I'm pointing out this fact, so that it doesn't go umissed:

Rush was never in any danger. At all.

Why? Because you can disconnect the stones. At that instant, when they saw Telford in the room, Young should have ordered the stones disconnected. The only possible casualty from venting the room would have been Telford, and I think he would have agreed with Young, and been willing to risk his life to make up for his brainwashed actions. But it's highly likely that he wouldn't have died.

No, Young isn't a villain; but he has made one too many bad decisions lately. He is the one who insists on having the power, and if he is not capable of properly wielding it to protect those under his command, he deserves to lose it.

I like the guy; he's a good, multi-faceted character. But he's not leader material.

[Lahela]

Rush brought that on himself by framing one person of murder and then forcing one person to undergo some dangerous procedure.
Very villian like

Thats one of those morally questionable things. I don't really think beating Telford up was an act of villiany. It was a selfish motive

I'm not saying anyone is or isn't a villain. What I am saying is that it's inaccurate to claim that Young has never committed any act that was not for some greater good, when it's clear that he has. Whatever anyone thinks of his motivations (and I'm certainly not interested in getting into a debate about whether Rush or Telford deserved what Young dished out to them because that's not the point I'm trying to make), both acts were, in fact, both morally and legally wrong.

[Old Dood]

Indeed, something Rush reminded him of later. He let his feelings for a friend that he just regained get in the way.

True. Col Young is not without 'Faults'. That is what I like about this show.
It shows us the little things that people do based on their emotions.
We are all emotional beings and no amount of 'Training' can change that about us.
(Unless that person is a psychopath... )

What is truly remarkable about this show for me is how they show people in a 'Real Situation' and their behavior reflects that.
General O'Neill chews out for Col Young for his decision but, even General O'Neill (as Col O'Neill) has made that same 'mistake' based on his emotions toward Major Carter in the past.

On a side note since General O'Neill brought up the fact that Col Carter 'left' two 302 pilots when they had to scoot then why didn't Col Carter just beam the pilots out of their 302s?
You would think that they would of had an Emergency Beam Out Protocol set up for a situation like that in place.

[jelgate]

I'm not saying anyone is or isn't a villain. What I am saying is that it's inaccurate to claim that Young has never committed any act that was not for some greater good, when it's clear that he has. Whatever anyone thinks of his motivations (and I'm certainly not interested in getting into a debate about whether Rush or Telford deserved what Young dished out to them because that's not the point I'm trying to make), both acts were, in fact, both morally and legally wrong.

I never made such a claim. They is a huge middle ground between hero and villian

[Blackhole]

That's just not true. Neither abandoning Rush on that planet nor impersonating both a subordinate and another member of the destiny crew in order to beat up on Telford were for the good of anybody. Way beyond morally questionable and well into criminal territory.

I'm not saying anyone is or isn't a villain. What I am saying is that it's inaccurate to claim that Young has never committed any act that was not for some greater good, when it's clear that he has. Whatever anyone thinks of his motivations (and I'm certainly not interested in getting into a debate about whether Rush or Telford deserved what Young dished out to them because that's not the point I'm trying to make), both acts were, in fact, both morally and legally wrong.

I don’t believe jelgate and others are suggesting that all of Young’s actions were always for the greater good or not both morally and legally wrong. I think they are suggesting there are significant precipitating and mitigating circumstances that must be taken into consideration when judging his actions.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

I never made such a claim. They is a huge middle ground between hero and villian

especially when you start to think of heroes in the Joseph Campbell sense where they really aren't all that clean in any case. Heroes are never as clean as we think, and villains are never as simple or evil as we think. Hell, Kiva is likely a hero to her own people for that matter.