'Incursion, Part 1' (119) General Discussion

[senilegreen]

While I appreciate the progress in the story-line, a couple of things still jump out for being, well, idiotic.

First is the reason Kiva gives for wanting to be on Destiny. Sorry, but unless the writers reveal a secret reason that Kiva is holding back, her statement about Destiny just doesn't make sense. The LA are mercenaries and terrorists, and perhaps a rebel government on certain planets. They're just not the type to want to "boldly go where no man has gone before."

Second is Eli. The writers are making him out to be 14 years old. Really, no matter how developmentally behind he was on Earth, he has now been in the rugged realm of daily survival for several months. Oh, and he should be quite a bit thinner by now too.

There's nothing the writers can do about that last bit (as it is up to the actor to make the sacrifices to play the part), but at least as far as the LA I'm hoping the season final offers some better answers.

[GateroomGuard]

To Col. Young
Young I know that you are a capable officer, they gave you command of your own base. So I can safely assume you’re familiar with how we defend against gate incursions. An Iris, now I know you don't have one so you use a gateroom defense team. You know like the ones we have at EVERY SINLGLE BASE! Now the Gateroom in the Destiny is probably the best in terms of the defensive positions it offers, what with the elevated positions, the stair cases, the doors to hide behind. Now you also know that traveling from the Milky Way to Destiny causes people to come tumbling out into the gate room. Meaning their the most shootable targets in gateroom defensive history! Now you may say "What if they throw in frag, smoke, or flashbang grenades?" Well a large open space like the gateroom means less effective grenades, a small hallway means very effective grenades. Now Young you have at least 20 soldiers with assault weapons that could be positioned in the gateroom to cover every angle, you also have enough people to keep them in reserve outside the gateroom. So it's very clear that the Gateroom is the best bet to defending the Destiny and any location from incursions.
Young have you ever seen the movie "The Longest Day"? I'm guessing that a military guy like you has. You know the beginning where Rommel is overseeing the construction of beach defenses? You know the part where he flat out says that if the Allies get a beachhead we lose? Well the gateroom is the beach and all those hallways were the beachhead. Meaning YOU'VE LOST.
Not only do the numerous enemy control the gateroom they also have access to the shuttle. Meaning you have no way to resupply or escape. But the enemy does.
Now I can understand that your plan would have solved everything in about 2 minutes. Vacuum the air turn the gateroom into an atmosphereless void killing everyone that comes through. Except you waited until they got through the gate to do it. Now I'm just saying wouldn't getting rid of the air before they arrive causing them to suffocate immediately as the come through the gate be better than getting rid of the air after their through the gate? But it was a good plan, if it worked. But since it didn't you had no plan, or at least thats what I'm assuming since you positioned your soldiers at the doors to the gateroom, you know the doors that the lucian alliance would most likely throw grenades through! Meaning all your soldiers would be in the most dangerous spot possible. Now if they were positioned their because you were going to launch an assault against the gateroom then they were positioned perfectly. I mean were you expecting the Lucian Alliance were going to surrender and your guys would storm the gate room take everyone prisoner and it would be done?
Now your plan to get rid of the air was the perfect plan if you actually did it, since you didn't it turned into the new text book example for SGC candidates in how never to defend the gateroom. Now your back up plan was perfect if the enemy did surrender, but since they didn't it turned into the next text book example in how not to defend a ship. So in conclusion your entire defense strategy was depending on everything going exactly as you planned. Now isn’t that the first thing you are taught never to do in planning an operation?

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i have decided that kiva is a be-atch. she was willing to kill TJ -The only medic on the ship. not to mention she was pregnant with a life. doesn't kiva have any morals?

[Loheat]

Venting the atmosphere wont do much when they brought breathing apparatus with them, all it will do is kill the hostages and force the Lucian Alliance to attack

[GateroomGuard]

i have decided that kiva is a be-atch. she was willing to kill TJ -The only medic on the ship. not to mention she was pregnant with a life. doesn't kiva have any morals?

I don't think you become a Lucian Alliance warlord by having morals.

[boo1234]

Venting the atmosphere wont do much when they brought breathing apparatus with them, all it will do is kill the hostages and force the Lucian Alliance to attack

they looked more like gas masks to me than an breathing apparatus...

[RedXian]

In Subversion Rush says it could take him the rest of his life, and then within a few days including some time spent unconscious due to Telford 'dying' and with limited equipment compared to Icarus, he gets it to work. Seemed a bit fast IMHO. *shrugs*

Yeah.. the rest of his life... cause they'd kill him as soon as he got the gate dialling Destiny.

[EllieVee]

i have decided that kiva is a be-atch. she was willing to kill TJ -The only medic on the ship. not to mention she was pregnant with a life. doesn't kiva have any morals?

While a decision to kill the only medic is a daft one, does Kiva know there's only one medic? (haven't seen the episode) Did Kiva perhaps bring her own medical personnel? Plus, why would TJ's life mean anything at all to her?

[Lahela]

Really enjoyed this ep - a rollercoaster of tensions and emotions.

Young… As much as I enjoy the character for this very reason, I cannot figure this guy out. His decision-making seems to be based entirely on what he wants to believe will happen and that leads him to take unreasonable risks. He wanted Telford to have been brainwashed and was willing to risk two lives to make it so - lucky for him it seems it was so, and lucky he was able to revive Telford or he'd have two deaths on his hands. He wants to believe that Telford can be trusted so he follows his lead, maybe he'll get lucky again. He wants to believe that he can save everyone without losing any more of his own people simply because it's TJ so no risk is acceptable, but I'm pretty sure Rush was right in his assessment about how any other military person would approach the situation. His flip-flopping and refusal to consult with anyone are just frustrating. Geez, the guy really needs to be slapped upside the head. Which I guess is what Jack did, verbally at least.

Speaking of Jack, I loved him in this ep, so much more than in Subversion. I much prefer hardcore Jack to comic-relief Jack. And Sam was fantastic - a hell of a decision to have to make, but she did what needed to be done without hesitation. You know how much she's going to hate it though.

At first I thought Wray was just being the Wray that we've seen so often before, but was very pleasantly surprised by the negotiation scene. She has a gift for words and a quick mind and she bought them some valuable time.

I'm so happy to see TJ in the position she's in - no *flail*, just calmly dealing with things. She knows she's way out of her depth in the medic department, but she doesn't let that get in the way of just doing her best under any circumstances, even heavily pregnant. Such a great character.

Eli and Chloe - I don't think their b-plot is filler at all. We've seen time and again in this show that there's no such thing as a thread that doesn't belong in an ep even if the payoff is a long way down the line, so while it may look like they're just wandering aimlessly and giving us the requisite character moments, I'm 100% confident that they are going to have a big part to play in the resolution of the story. I do kind of wish it had been Eli that had been shot though, so Chloe had to be the one looking after him.

Looking forward to rewatching this one in the lead-up to next week.

[RedXian]

While a decision to kill the only medic is a daft one, does Kiva know there's only one medic? (haven't seen the episode) Did Kiva perhaps bring her own medical personnel? Plus, why would TJ's life mean anything at all to her?

The LA tried to evacuate as many people as they could, which I would assume there'd be medical personnel. However the planet went kablooie and killed over 100 LA guys. Which I assume would include doctors.

I find the idea of the LA aboard Destiny interesting. I can't help but thing of Voyager with the Marquis members aboard. Assuming that some LA members survive and that we gain control of the entire ship again. One of those will probably be Varro (His name was used this episode too).

Col Young has made quite a few bad decisions of late. I'd say that most of his decisions have been questionable. In other circumstances he would have been quickly replaced and given a desk job. He doesn't seem to be able to make the hard decisions. Perhaps something has happened in his life aboard Destiny that caused him to doubt himself (which could explain why he turned down the command of Project Icarus).

Once the situation is resolved an assuming both Col Young and Telford survive there will be power struggle. Col Telford is the commander of Project Icarus however he has been compromised and whether or not he an lead will be called into question. Col Young has been making one poor command decision after another, plus he has medical issues (i.e. his seizures from Air).

On the theme of poor decisions. I'm having a hard time thinking of any the leading characters who made a good decision. They just seem to be making decisions that so far haven't cost someones life. The show feels more real because of it.

[BadOnion]

i have decided that kiva is a be-atch. she was willing to kill TJ -The only medic on the ship. not to mention she was pregnant with a life. doesn't kiva have any morals?

Well she didn't know she was a medic until told.

[Azzers]

I do kind of wish it had been Eli that had been shot though, so Chloe had to be the one looking after him.

The thing about this is, I'm not so sure we're looking at a simple "oh, someone is hurt" scenario. She's shot. She has the blood flow to her leg cut off for the most part. They're walking around an area with bad air and the bleeding hasn't stopped.

I don't think she's going to die. But I will losely speculate that something very major with her charecter may be happening here. I don't think she's being given the short end of the stick in the story so Eli can have a hero moment.

Of course, I'm just speculating.

[g.o.d]

i have decided that kiva is a be-atch. she was willing to kill TJ -The only medic on the ship. not to mention she was pregnant with a life. doesn't kiva have any morals?

killing a woman would have a bigger impact than killing f.e. Riley

[Cylykon]

Touche. My best guess is still a weird star, but it really could be anything.

Just look at all the clues:

1. Destiny won't jump to FTL in a gravity well, so they're near a massive object.
2. Destiny was subjected to some kind of burst of radiation that really stressed the ship's shields and fried poor Greedo who was unfortunate enough to stand under the sun roof, so the massive object could be a pulsar, magnetar, neutron star, or a black hole.
3. It doesn't seem to be emitting radiation between bursts, so that would explain why Eli didn't see it when he was looking out the window.
4. Rush seems to be having a hard time finding it too, so it's either an old, cold, slow pulsar or a neutron star.

On another note, Young and Telford sure kissed and made up quickly... even more quickly than Young and Rush... how conveeeeeenient. Looks like Young and Wray are on track to bury the hatchet soon, too. Can you say "Star Trek: Voyager"?

[Lahela]

The thing about this is, I'm not so sure we're looking at a simple "oh, someone is hurt" scenario. She's shot. She has the blood flow to her leg cut off for the most part. They're walking around an area with bad air and the bleeding hasn't stopped.

I don't think she's going to die. But I will losely speculate that something very major with her charecter may be happening here. I don't think she's being given the short end of the stick in the story so Eli can have a hero moment.

Of course, I'm just speculating.

Very true - I hadn't thought about what might happen down the line as far as her injury is concerned.