TJ ordering the gun put down

[FallenAngelII]

The gun had, what 12 bullets at most? What were they gonna do, shoot their way to Rush and then force him to end the deadlock under threat of death? And then what? With up to 12 or more (if the bullets are piercing) civilians wounded or, worse, dead, you really think that would've made the civilians more co-operative? They'd be enraged and go on a strike or plot a new coup, this one armed.

[hiro]

They'd be enraged and go on a strike or plot a new coup, this one armed.

I agree but i have to point , they had weapons!

[thekillman]

oh yes, we'd have once civvie with a gun. 99.99% of the other guns are in hands of the soldiers. whacha think, that guy's gonna shoot when 3 G-36 rifles are aimed at him? nope.


it was the best decision, besides, she knew Young was capable of a rescue and she was proven right. obviously, it was the best choice. no way the civvs would've allowed him to holster the weapon.

[FallenAngelII]

I agree but i have to point , they had weapons!

We saw two weapons. That doesn't make the coup itself armed. It makes those two individuals armed.

[Killfetzer]

Why does everyone seem to think that violence and force is the solution? Am I the only one then who thinks TJ made a wise and the best decision as a leader at that time? And I am then the only one who believes that it's not in TJ's nature?

I'm with you as well. Deescalation was the best choice for TJ at that moment.

Do you not think that threatening a person's life support systems is a violent or forceful act?

Young didn't use this. As Rush stated Young had to shut down the life support immedeatly so that the civilians die before the military dies. Young just stated that he could have used it.

[pipi]

As Rush stated Young had to shut down the life support immedeatly so that the civilians die before the military dies. Young just stated that he could have used it.

That's probably based on the standard 3 day rule without water. But ah ha, Bear Grylls teaches you to drink your own pee, that should extend a couple of days. And usually in a confined space it's the CO2 that kills you first before you actually run out of air.

[Phenom]

The gun had, what 12 bullets at most? What were they gonna do, shoot their way to Rush and then force him to end the deadlock under threat of death? And then what? With up to 12 or more (if the bullets are piercing) civilians wounded or, worse, dead, you really think that would've made the civilians more co-operative? They'd be enraged and go on a strike or plot a new coup, this one armed.

You wouldn't need to use the 12 bullets. The simple theory of 'my stick is bigger than your stick and you really don't want me to use my stick' is all that would have been required. I noted the term excessive force was used a bit earlier in the thread. Excessive force need not have been used at all in this scenario. The threat of the use of the gun is all that would be required, and that threat need not even be a direct threat. The sheer knowledge that yes I have the most powerful weapon in this room and if need be, it will be used, is enough to hold power in the room.

The issue with the Coup I have is that the civillians didn't actually have any power over the military, not with armed military on the civillian side. I do understand thought that it wasn't the plan to have that happen however.

I find it interesting that some are praising TJ for being 'level headed' etc in not wanting to use force. There is a time where being level headed and not using force in a hostile situation can be critical. It is also just as critical however where being too passive can result in the situation turning against you. Obviously this is a show with a scripted ending but in reality if someone in my profession was to give up their gun just because they were told too, with no reason to do so, then they would be chucked in the air lock with the rubbish.

[FallenAngelII]

You wouldn't need to use the 12 bullets. The simple theory of 'my stick is bigger than your stick and you really don't want me to use my stick' is all that would have been required. I noted the term excessive force was used a bit earlier in the thread. Excessive force need not have been used at all in this scenario. The threat of the use of the gun is all that would be required, and that threat need not even be a direct threat. The sheer knowledge that yes I have the most powerful weapon in this room and if need be, it will be used, is enough to hold power in the room.

The civilians knew that if he so shot a single one of them, the military would lose the war. They would no longer be able to justify their rule. "If you're against us, we kill you". They already tried it with Rush and now a grunt killed an (or more) unarmed civilian simply for being in his way.

[pipi]

What's with all this shooting business. Waste of scarce munitions. Those civilians are overrated. He could have easily just judo chopped all three of them and open the door for the other guys to enter. Okay here's a breakdown of the stand off. And for the record not all civilians would be prepared for some fistycuffs, they'd just freeze, like a bystander on a street.

Scenario:
Airman with pistol vs 2 girls and 1 middle aged guy
enters TJ and 2 overweight scientist
enters Wray and 1 old guy

I'm strongly against violence against girls so the chances of the Airman never getting laid againt in his life on Destiny would be quite high, unfortunately... But anyway, social politics aside, if TJ and the airman wanted to end it quick here is what I'd envision.

Wray gives the death stare to the Airman.
Airman clocks her with the pistol (KO).
The two scientist freeze in shock and are useless.
Old guy tries to help Wray off the grown because he is kind hearted.
TJ makes a dash for the door by sidestepping the girls to the left.
All three of the civilians try to grab her.
Airman puts the saftey on and takes out the guy on the right from behind.
Scientiest are still standing there twiddling their thumbs.
Old guy is trying to use reason.
The two girls finally give up or they can continue their 3way wrestleton.
While Airman runs to the door and opens it. Or if he doesn't value his sex life, he can pistol whip the girls from behind too.


Anyway alll hypothetical, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if those two wanted to do it, it's possible without firing 12 rounds and the whole shebang about taking on the entire civilians cause there's no need to.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

What's with all this shooting business. Waste of scarce munitions. Those civilians are overrated. He could have easily just judo chopped all three of them and open the door for the other guys to enter. Okay here's a breakdown of the stand off. And for the record not all civilians would be prepared for some fistycuffs, they'd just freeze, like a bystander on a street.

Scenario:
Airman with pistol vs 2 girls and 1 middle aged guy
enters TJ and 2 overweight scientist
enters Wray and 1 old guy

I'm strongly against violence against girls so the chances of the Airman never getting laid againt in his life on Destiny would be quite high, unfortunately... But anyway, social politics aside, if TJ and the airman wanted to end it quick here is what I'd envision.

Wray gives the death stare to the Airman.
Airman clocks her with the pistol (KO).
The two scientist freeze in shock and are useless.
Old guy tries to help Wray off the grown because he is kind hearted.
TJ makes a dash for the door by sidestepping the girls to the left.
All three of the civilians try to grab her.
Airman puts the saftey on and takes out the guy on the right from behind.
Scientiest are still standing there twiddling their thumbs.
Old guy is trying to use reason.
The two girls finally give up or they can continue their 3way wrestleton.
While Airman runs to the door and opens it. Or if he doesn't value his sex life, he can pistol whip the girls from behind too.


Anyway alll hypothetical, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but if those two wanted to do it, it's possible without firing 12 rounds and the whole shebang about taking on the entire civilians cause there's no need to.

I'm sorry what? The airman could judo chop them all? Do you actually know anything about military training, the guy was an ordinary airman, not some Special Forces Guy, and hell even being that doesn't turn you into Jackie Chan. The civilians were staring down a guy with a gun, they weren't going to back down and if it came to a fistfight it was 3 against 2 with the civilians having reserves. Not a good situation.

[hiro]

We saw two weapons. That doesn't make the coup itself armed. It makes those two individuals armed.

They had access to the gate room, i guess that somewhere near the gate room it has to be one improvised arsenal ...

[FallenAngelII]

They had access to the gate room, i guess that somewhere near the gate room it has to be one improvised arsenal ...

But the coup itself was not armed! They did not march into the middle of the ship, guns a-blazing and threaten to shoot anyone who stood in their way! Heck, the vast majority of the civilians in on the coup weren't armed! We saw two guns! So it doesn't matter if there might have been guns at their disposal. The coup was not armed.

[Jper]

But the coup itself was not armed! They did not march into the middle of the ship, guns a-blazing and threaten to shoot anyone who stood in their way! Heck, the vast majority of the civilians in on the coup weren't armed! We saw two guns! So it doesn't matter if there might have been guns at their disposal. The coup was not armed.

You keep insisting, or mentioning that you saw two guns, while there was only one gun in the possession of the civilians...

[FallenAngelII]

You keep insisting, or mentioning that you saw two guns, while there was only one gun in the possession of the civilians...

Someone said that in the scene where Eli was exchanged for food and water, there were two guns visible. I just assumed they weren't lying since I'm too lazy to re-check.

One or two guns, it does not matter. My argument is that the civilians weren't armed en masse, that the coup itself wasn't armed. If the civilians had only one gun instead of two, that only serves to support my point further.

[Jper]

Someone said that in the scene where Eli was exchanged for food and water, there were two guns visible. I just assumed they weren't lying since I'm too lazy to re-check.

One or two guns, it does not matter. My argument is that the civilians weren't armed en masse, that the coup itself wasn't armed. If the civilians had only one gun instead of two, that only serves to support my point further.

No there's only one gun. The gun they got from airman Dunning.