Reaching Destiny

[thekillman]

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Destiny was on a mission they wouldn't want to slow it down using it as the only hub to send materials to the new galaxy when they had no need to. It's also pretty restrictive to have to transport stuff to Destiny to then build elsewhere.

Edit: Also to rely on Destiny for colonisation would be a massive weakness. What if Destiny was destroyed? It would scupper the whole plan.

I would see the Ancients having a technology similar to that employed by the Ori when they built the supergate. They would dial up from MW send an self assembling gate through with substantial power source and infrastructure to support it.

Personally, i think the Ancients had no plan in place.

I think it's far more likely that they had some concepts in place and would crack that puzzle when the time came. It's fairly obvious they felt it would take a long time anyway, and technology would've advanced much, much further by that time, making new solutions much better or easier to implement.

Using destiny is not a weakness. they could gate onto Destiny, drop the appropriate supplies and let it continue as the left-behind party assembles stuff for the REAL colonization.

I don't think there are limitations on ACCEPTING wormholes tho, only sending wormholes.

I suppose anything's possible, Sam and the squints at Area 51 could probably figure out how to trace the material, the same way they can trace explosive materials from Earth's devises.

It's likely isotopic differences could pinpoint the planet it was made on. However, it would require naquahdriah samples of candidate planets for comparison.

(isotopic differences is how we tell, for example, martian meteors apart from say, lunar meteors. It also allows the tracing of a certain kind of ore to a specific mine).

I suppose anything's possible, Sam and the squints at Area 51 could probably figure out how to trace the material, the same way they can trace explosive materials from Earth's devises.

Unfortunately, the path in Air suggests the next galaxy in the path is somewhere in the next galactic supercluser (AKA: ******* far away)

That has to beg the question, how come they have not travelled to Destiny itself, or could they still. If the show hadn't been cancelled.

I can answer this fairly easily.

Why would we shut down the LHC? it's mankind's most high-tech, most powerful particle collider. Well aside from bugetary problems and being too old, there's one i can think of that's not a direct weakness: it's obsolete.

The LHC is actually not pretty good for Higgs studying. Now that we know it's mass, we can build a new collider that has a much higher and less noisy (in terms of useless data) Higgs production.

The same probably happened to Destiny: Ascension provided a better alternative, as that state would allow them to just whoosh to Destiny without much trouble (as time wouldn't be a problem either). It would allow them to observer the Universe like never before and give maybe much more knowledge than Destiny can.

[Railgun]

Personally, i think the Ancients had no plan in place.

I think it's far more likely that they had some concepts in place and would crack that puzzle when the time came. It's fairly obvious they felt it would take a long time anyway, and technology would've advanced much, much further by that time, making new solutions much better or easier to implement.

Using destiny is not a weakness. they could gate onto Destiny, drop the appropriate supplies and let it continue as the left-behind party assembles stuff for the REAL colonization.

I don't think there are limitations on ACCEPTING wormholes tho, only sending wormholes.

I think they would have all the bureaucratic nonsense that we do. To get a project of this scale approved and significant resources assigned they would have needed a clear plan with projected benefits, ROI etc..

It wouldn't have been long after the launch of Destiny that they would start their colonisation of the 1st galaxy in the path. Not (100's of thousands/millions ) of years to where Destiny is now. their colonisation plan must have been in place from the start and use technology they had available at that time.

An interesting implication of your idea that they would gate to Desting rather than mine where they would gate to the planets themselves is that if you are right the Ancients would have only a short window to send resources to the Destiny to colonise any given galaxy as it passes through, or delay it's ultimate mission.

If the Ancients did populate Pagasus as the Destiny was travelling through it, then Pegasus blossomed to the state that it was shown to be in before the Wraith attack began, there is a good chance that Destiny would have travelled to other galaxies and that the Ancients would have colonised them in that time.

I would concede that the Destiny gates would not need to be able to dial out intergalactically for them to be used to colonise as long as they could 'Accept' an incoming wormhole since the gate would be upgraded when the Ancients gated there anyway.

[Railgun]

It's likely isotopic differences could pinpoint the planet it was made on. However, it would require naquahdriah samples of candidate planets for comparison.

(isotopic differences is how we tell, for example, martian meteors apart from say, lunar meteors. It also allows the tracing of a certain kind of ore to a specific mine).

Assuming we don't have a sample of the planet that the Lucian's exploded, there is another possible way;
If we capture more Lucian Naquadriah weapons we can compare their signatures to each other. If we ever find 2 that differ then we know they have access to another mine.

[Railgun]

I can answer this fairly easily.

Why would we shut down the LHC? it's mankind's most high-tech, most powerful particle collider. Well aside from bugetary problems and being too old, there's one i can think of that's not a direct weakness: it's obsolete.

The LHC is actually not pretty good for Higgs studying. Now that we know it's mass, we can build a new collider that has a much higher and less noisy (in terms of useless data) Higgs production.

The same probably happened to Destiny: Ascension provided a better alternative, as that state would allow them to just whoosh to Destiny without much trouble (as time wouldn't be a problem either). It would allow them to observer the Universe like never before and give maybe much more knowledge than Destiny can.

It is plausible that it's an outdated tech that was just superseded. If a project goal of Destiny was colonisation they would only abandon Destiny if they had been able to colonise by another means or if they gave up the goal of colonisation completely after ascension, which may be true.

Didn't they learn to ascend after the virus though? so there would have been a window of colonisation before that.

[thekillman]

First of all: there's an edit button for crying out loud.

I think they would have all the bureaucratic nonsense that we do. To get a project of this scale approved and significant resources assigned they would have needed a clear plan with projected benefits, ROI etc..

The 9th chevron gate address SPECIFICALLY goes to destiny. Seeing as the Destiny gates use a relative coordinate system and not an absolute one (IE: the symbols represent different coordinates every time), i don't think it's possible at all to dial a Destiny gate from anywhere but the same galaxy.

I am not saying the Ancients would colonize via Destiny. They would bring the materials required for an intergalactic gate connection with them and make it happen. Like, building a Milky Way gate on the spot. They would then dial that very gate and bring the rest for colonization.

However, this only ever applies to far-away colonization: pegasus was probably colonized the old fashion way, with the Destiny gates simply providing an easily-replaced foundation for the final network.

And lastly:
They would not need a complete plan to reach Destiny. It's clear that they KNEW it would take a long time. Any technological solution would be outdated by the time Destiny would find a good place.

But anyway, i don't think colonization was a goal. It likely was just a method of easier galactic exploration and the potential for colonization was just a benefit.

[garhkal]

There might be some reason why it wouldn't work though;

I seem to remember Baal helped to send the macro last time. If the Goa'uld had the ability to send a macro to reveal the location of all stargates then they would know about all stargates in the MW, yet we know that O'Neill added extra gates into SGC's computers that the Goa'uld did not know about when he had the knowledge of the Ancients.

It could be that the Goa'uld did know them all and the Abydos cart-ouch was outdated?
Or maybe only Baal had this knowledge an wasn't sharing?
In which case it might still work.

optionally, some gates had lock outs to prevent that at first and Ba'al overrode that

I always thought it was a bit short sighted for the ancients not to leave spare power resevoirs on destiny that could replace the knackered ones when the ship was finally boarded. For a bunch of geniuses that had the universe sussed they didn't always think very far ahead lol.

Perhaps they DID leave some, but cause of the time since it launched and the damage sustained, they too are knackered.

The wormhole opened and sent Telford back to Earth. If Rush & Eli had got their act together they could have also sent a compressed data-burst through with all the data from Destiny to SGC.

Or telford carrying some hard drives with the data compressed onto.

The great thing is that if the worst were to happen and the planet's core went critical, Atlantis could simply take off and enter hyperspace instead of being destroyed like what happened at Icarus.

Depends on how quickly the core goes critical.

Actually that would be a great way to confuse the hell out of the drones attacking Destiny too. If all the gates came on simultaneously they wouldn't know where to look.

Well, we know the drones have hyperdrive... so if they DO detect that macro opening all the gates up, what's stopping them back tracking it to us??

If we capture more Lucian Naquadriah weapons we can compare their signatures to each other. If we ever find 2 that differ then we know they have access to another mine.

Interesting idea.. Sort of like how we use signatures on bombs to tell where the uranium came from.

[Railgun]

However, this only ever applies to far-away colonization: pegasus was probably colonized the old fashion way, with the Destiny gates simply providing an easily-replaced foundation for the final network.

And lastly:
They would not need a complete plan to reach Destiny. It's clear that they KNEW it would take a long time. Any technological solution would be outdated by the time Destiny would find a good place.

But anyway, i don't think colonization was a goal. It likely was just a method of easier galactic exploration and the potential for colonization was just a benefit.

I'd say colonisation is their M.O. They did it in MW then again in Pegasus. A leopard does not change it's spots.

They probably wouldn't use Destiny to colonise Pegasus if Pegasus had already been colonised. That would depend on the relative dates. Not sure if the info has been given on screen or not? But it would be a case of comparing the date the Ancients started in Pegasus from the Atlantis database and the launch date of Destiny + the time to travel from MW to Pegasus in FTL.

If destiny arrived in Pegasus before it had already been colonised they would want to use it for that both because that was part of it's mission and because they would want to test it out closer to home so would be easier to fix if there were any teething problems. Don't want to get in the middle of nowhere and find it doesn't work right.

They KNEW it would take a long time until Destiny reached the end, but they would not know what Destiny would find along the way or how long that would take, unless the seeder ships were very far ahead and relaying info back.

Well, we know the drones have hyperdrive... so if they DO detect that macro opening all the gates up, what's stopping them back tracking it to us??

I think the drones only detect the subspace disturbance when the wormhole opens. They would be unlikely to be able to track the macro. They think if a gate opens then Destiny is in close proximity, but with all the gates open they wouldn't know where Destiny was .

[dissolved]

So within the Atlantis database, your telling me their are no blueprints on how to make ZPM's? How about within the complied datatbase of the Asgard, your telling me their is no instructions on how to generate enough power to travel to Destiny?

Obviously the Ancients had a way of reaching Destiny, even when it was millions of galaxies away... There are so many loop holes that writes fail to see.

[thekillman]

They probably wouldn't use Destiny to colonise Pegasus if Pegasus had already been colonised.

Destiny paves the road, it does not colonize. Also, it's obvious from dating that Destiny was first. Given that i myself and probably everyone on this forum has a horrible understanding of just how long a million years is, i don't think Rush ever bothered to specify just how many. To most people, it would sound as "a very long time" whether it's hundreds of thousands, a million or tens of millions of years.

So within the Atlantis database, your telling me their are no blueprints on how to make ZPM's?

Wikipedia has no plans on how to build a nuclear reactor, cellphone, or how to make ducttape.

Even if you had the blueprints of a nuclear powerplant, there's so much information you do not have, like how to make the components. And even if you had THAT, it still assumes you have the technology to make it in the first place; It's not like Archimedes would understand how to build a nuclear reactor, even if he had all the books and blueprints.

Obviously the Ancients had a way of reaching Destiny, even when it was millions of galaxies away... There are so many loop holes that writes fail to see.

No. Assuming the Ancients were generous in their time and planned, say, one or two thousand years for the mission (which is about how long our civilization has lasted so far), it would still be in pissing distance. It's far, far, far further than the Ancients intended it to go, and has been at it for far, far, far longer than the Ancients intended.

In the ancients' time, it would be pretty darn close.

[Railgun]

Destiny paves the road, it does not colonize.

The seed ships pave the way. Destiny follows.

There are 2 sides to this;
1) Would Destiny be a capable platform for colonisation?
and
2) Would the Ancients actually want to colonise other galaxies?

Having a stargate aboard capable of being dialled into from Earth would satisfy the first condition.

As for the second we are unlikely ever to know their true intentions, but on the assumption that they do want to colonise(which is what they have done previously), it would be a waste of the resources not to make use of Destiny to this end since it will be stopping off at all the galaxies along the way, unless they have another better means of colonisation up their sleeve.

There is some evidence that the Ancients had power limitations during their war with the Wraith, otherwise they would not have needed to develop project Arcturus they would have just added multiple ZPM's to their ships like they did with Atlantis. However it would be likely that given peace conditions the Ancients would be able to create many ZPM's to power a trip to Destiny, no matter how far. The Asurans were able to create many ZPM's with no difficulty so It would make sense that the Ancients had the same capability.

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

OK, here's another plan;
How about attaching hyper-drive engines to the puddle jumper that has the time travel drive.

Send it off to rendezvous with Destiny. It would arrive immediately at the destination even though it is a long voyage. Then swap the time travel device over to Destiny and travel back to Earth in no time in FTL.

What you're talking about is sending the PJ off to find destiny which would take millions of years but then allowing it to travel back in time. This isn't the same thing as zero travel time that you are suggesting. You could never put people on board.

The stargate uses a wormhole to travel across space time top achieve instantaneous travel. This is completely different to time travel.

[Mnikolic]

Ok, didn't Thor install a bunch of upgrades on SG1's space ship in "Unending"? Maybe SG-1 could replicate some of those upgrades shomhow, install them on their main Stargate systems in SGC/SG Homeworld and use them to reach Destiny that way. Then send Daniel or McKay to the ship via the communication stones so they can make sure their upgrades are compatible with Destny's Stargate and once that'd be done, send a team trough so they can install the necessary modified upgades onto the ship and the ship's Stargate as well. Then the SGU team could preform a ship re-charge so they could connect back to Earth without risking everyone's lives on the ship. They could also make the ship not require a large amount the ship's power to dial the 9th chevron. Maybe have Rush find yet another control bridge on the ship and do some magic from there as well.

Surely Thor and his race should've known much more than they actually told SG-1, so perhaps that knowledge could save the Destiny expedition and the ship itself.

[Railgun]

What you're talking about is sending the PJ off to find destiny which would take millions of years but then allowing it to travel back in time. This isn't the same thing as zero travel time that you are suggesting. You could never put people on board.

The stargate uses a wormhole to travel across space time top achieve instantaneous travel. This is completely different to time travel.

At speeds close to the speed of light the occupants of the PJ would not age significantly during the journey. With time travel drive installed the PJ would reach Destiny immediately from the perspective of the people on Earth. If you were really worried about the effects on the crew you could put them in stasis first.

Actually I have an even new and more crazy idea of getting people to Destiny now.
It involves working on the Asgard cloning and mind transference technology. First to help Gin & Amanda Perry get out of the Destiny's computer and then we just need some volunteers to commit suicide whilst using the stones

[Trig]

Some Galaxies are further away than others so the gate to gate over a galaxy probably woudlnt work.

We'd need to get data from Destiny as to where it was and possibly viable planets, plus we dont know what sort of data Destiny collects, it might just do a surface scan to met xyz set of perameters and not bother looking at core composition so the data required might not even be available.

Probably the best case would be to create a black hole similar to the Ori way when they made the supergate setup, failing that we'd be looking at some sort of advanced human/alien colaboration, the Asgard for instance would be idea friends to have a long on the project...

[Railgun]

Probably the best case would be to create a black hole similar to the Ori way when they made the supergate setup, failing that we'd be looking at some sort of advanced human/alien colaboration, the Asgard for instance would be idea friends to have a long on the project...

This was Ori tech which we never captured and I think we would be a long way off being able to do this ourselves yet.

The Attero device also had a power source which may have been capable of powering the trip to Destiny.

From the transcripts:

"JACKSON: This facility's tapped into some pretty serious power generation. I've never seen anything like it before.

(Rodney has realised something.)

McKAY: You'd need a lot of power."

We destroyed it, but not before McKay got a good look at the workings. There are also a few renegade Asgard in Pegasus who could be caught and asked nicely to help reconstruct it