SGU: SciFi Writers Experimenting with Drama

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Exaggerated a bit but not that far from the truth.

Oh well if we're going to boil characters down to that level then, Tony Soprano was just a nervy violent gangster, a third of the characters in the Wire were violent drug dealers, a third were drunken cops, and a third were slimeball politicians, and Al Sweargen from Deadwood was just a violent pimp.

Boils a character down to a few words and of course all your going to get is simplistic statements that don't show the true nature of a character. Teal'c for example is not just a guy who says indeed, he's a person with a family, a cause, friends, enemies, personnel demons, over time he develops into a very useful member of the team and a major leader in his own right. The other characters all have their own character developments, their own backgrounds, what makes them tick, their own personnel problems.

Your statement is so exaggerated it's pretty much a falsehood, if you think O'Neill's just that guy who cracks jokes, I guess you weren't paying much attention to SG1 then were you?

[Deevil]

But genius implies extreme skill, intelligence and insight into an area. With Joss Whedon I see a man who's made a couple of successful tv shows in the past, and hasn't really had any real success in recent years. And while his tv shows in the past have been popular, I see nothing in Buffy or Angel that qualifies Whedon as a writing genius. I see people like David Simon and David Chase as people who deserve the moniker "genius" when it comes to writing on tv shows.

Sure, you don't see him as a genius. I didn't imply that the term was one that was used universally for him and in perpetuity. Just what I see... for a chunk of his productions. That being said, I think the guy's real genius work was Firefly - the rest was just practice.

Joss has this thing, when he is on - he's on. When he isn't, things go astray. He is far from perfect, but he still is a genuis IMHO.

Well since they haven't written a successful character drama to date it is finding out on the job, what are you holding up as evidence that they have?

Since they have written for drama's, some of which may be considered character drama's before Stargate I don't think you can classify it as 'learning on the job'. Mallozi wrote for "Lost World" and "Lassie", Mullie the same. Binder wrote for "Doctor Quinn Medicine Woman", "Mysterious Ways" etc. Their careers didn't start with Stargate. They have had experiences before, and for all we know they are still writing for their own projects now.

Exaggerated a bit but not that far from the truth.

Exaggerated a lot, and quite far from the truth. Even if I haven't always been happy with everything they have done, and lambasted them for some of their more... out of the world decisions - they deserve a little more respect for what they have created then I feel you are giving them.

[Sami_]

Mallozi wrote for "Lost World" and "Lassie", Mullie the same.

lol Lassie...

The dog was the most developed character on that show, so now we just need some animals on SGU and Mallozi can put his vast character drama skills on display.

I take it all back, the writing team is perfect

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Sure, you don't see him as a genius. I didn't imply that the term was one that was used universally for him and in perpetuity. Just what I see... for a chunk of his productions. That being said, I think the guy's real genius work was Firefly - the rest was just practice.

Joss has this thing, when he is on - he's on. When he isn't, things go astray. He is far from perfect, but he still is a genuis IMHO.

Are you sure you don't want to derail the thread with a huge flame war about the merits and demerits of Joss Whedon?

There's always going to be varying mileages, obviously though. I don't find Joss Whedon's work that good at all, the only stuff of his I like is Firefly and Serenity, and imo, they're good, but not brilliant.

Still your original point stands, even genius writers have off days. Even those writers who arguably more acclaimed than Joss Whedon have off days, David Chase for instance and season 4 of the Sopranos which became ponderous and slow moving. In fact the only writers who I can think of who have continued success over the years with no slip ups is David Simon and Ed Burns, which is part of the reason I'm such a massive fanboy of their work. But they are extremely rare cases.

[DavidR]

The best, and my my favourite learning experience bought through SGU is that drama is a naughty, filthy word.

How about slow paced, character based, drama, is a naughty, filthy word.

There are some character based, dramatic, shows that are actually pretty good. Heros was a character based, drama that did pretty well there for 1 or 2 seasons, then stumbled a bit....

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

How about slow paced, character based, drama, is a naughty, filthy word.

There are some character based, dramatic, shows that are actually pretty good. Heros was a character based, drama that did pretty well there for 1 or 2 seasons, then stumbled a bit....

REALLY? I would have never guessed.

[Flyboy]

Why... why the hell... why the hell can't this line of thinking just DIE?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Why... why the hell... why the hell can't this line of thinking just DIE?

What you expect fan dumb to be sensible rational people? What crazy universe to you live in, and are you selling tickets?

[Sami_]

What you expect fan dumb to be sensible rational people? What crazy universe to you live in, and are you selling tickets?

You don't think its rational to pose the question of whether creators/writers have the ability to make a successful show that is very different from what some of them have been doing for the past 12 years?

Are you freaking serious?

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

You don't think its rational to pose the question of whether creators/writers have the ability to make a successful show that is very different from what some of them have been doing for the past 12 years?

Are you freaking serious?

Well there's a big round thing they travel through, aliens, spaceships. A bit of a different focus, but it's not like tptb have suddenly decided to right a show on the plight and troubles of Young Ladies in Victorian London, now is it? So no I don't think SGU is vastly different to past Stargate shows.

So yes I'm freaking serious, as serious as these sheep are.

[Sami_]

So no I don't think SGU is vastly different to past Stargate shows.

"Robert and I were not going to do just another Stargate...we were kind of done," Wright states. "Robert was dying to go do something else. And [Universe] is that. We've kind of had our cake and are eating it, too, because we're doing something very different and it's still called Stargate, but it is so different that we're individually and together excited about what we're doing in a way that we haven't been in a little while."

Well Brad Wright disagrees with you.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Well Brad Wright disagrees with you.

Well good for him. Doe he win a prize?

[Sami_]

Well good for him. Doe he win a prize?

Yes he wins the "has an informed opinion" prize as opposed to others who don't.

So despite the creator saying that they are two very different shows you don't think your mistaken? is that rational? I guess fan dumb is right in this case.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Yes he wins the "has an informed opinion" prize as opposed to others who don't.

That took you a few minutes to think up and it's still not any good.

Funnily enough sycophantic agreement with Brad Wright is not a requirement for being a stargate fan, in fact I disagree with plenty of the stuff he's said in interviews. That doesn't prevent from watching and enjoying Stargate, and he's perfectly entitled to his opinion. However for me SGU isn't that different from past stargate, it has the gate, spaceships, aliens, past characters, ancients, Lucian Alliance, the IOA, and there were already interpersonal relationships in past stargate. Therefore, while I recognise there are some differences in SGU, I do not think SGU is some radical change for the franchise. Informed enough for you?

[Sami_]

That took you a few minutes to think up and it's still not any good.

Funnily enough sycophantic agreement with Brad Wright is not a requirement for being a stargate fan, in fact I disagree with plenty of the stuff he's said in interviews. That doesn't prevent from watching and enjoying Stargate, and he's perfectly entitled to his opinion. However for me SGU isn't that different from past stargate, it has the gate, spaceships, aliens, past characters, ancients, Lucian Alliance, the IOA, and there were already interpersonal relationships in past stargate. Therefore, while I recognise there are some differences in SGU, I do not think SGU is some radical change for the franchise. Informed enough for you?

Not informed at all, the context of this discussion is regarding the writing/creation of the show so whether you as a viewer don't think its very different is beside the point, the challenges we are discussing are in regards to those facing the writers and how the change in style affects them, so their perspective on whether it is different is the one that is relevant.

Saying you don't think its rational to question if they can successfuly write a different show because you don't think its different when they do is irrational.