"Stargate Universe" Discussion/Speculation (Spoilers)

[ciannwn]

a Nazi was a member of the former Nazi party of Germany. They should be referred to as National Socialists.

It's not as straightforward as that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_socialist

Many political parties in various contexts have referred to themselves as National Socialist parties. Because there is no clear definition of national socialism, the term has been used to mean very different things. Since the rise of German Nazism, which called itself "National Socialism", the term has been used in Europe and North America almost exclusively by political parties with racial nationalist views.

However, in other parts of the world, which had little contact with German Nazism, the term "National Socialism" is sometimes used by parties that define themselves as socialist and patriotic, without being racist. In addition, the term was also used by non-racist groups in Europe before the rise of Nazism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_nazi

The term neo-Nazism refers to post-World War II political movements, social movements, and ideologies seeking to revive Nazism, or some variant that echos core aspects of Nazism such as racial or ethnic nationalism or Völkisch integralism.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7]

Neo-Nazis often use the Indo-Aryan symbols that were in use by Nazi Germany, such as the Swastika, Sig Runes and the red-white-black color scheme. Neo-Nazi activity appears to be a global phenomenon, with organized representation in many countries, as well as international networks.

The terms 'Nazi' and 'neo Nazi' avoid confusion because they doesn't include political parties such as the 'National Socialist Party of Tripura'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...rty_of_Tripura

The term Nazi is and was used almost entirely by those who were not members of the party or group, to degrade those that were.

It's also become an umbrella term when talking/writing about a certain period of German history. I'm guessing the following could have something to do with why-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi

The official name of the party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei[9] (NSDAP) — “National Socialist German Workers’ Party”.

It didn't start out with that name.

On January 5, 1919, the party that eventually became the Nazi Party was founded under the name German Workers' Party (DAP)

Hitler joined the party in September 1919, and he became the propaganda boss.[21][22] The party was renamed the National Socialist German Workers’ Party on February 24, 1920,

[IrishPisano]

yeah so SGU... sounds like voyager eh?

[Flyboy]

What I was getting at was taliban has become a general term for insurgents in Afghanistan. Just as nazis can and IS used to describe various movements such as The Aryan Nation, The National Socialist Vanguard and November 9th Society. Neo Nazis are not Nazis, a Nazi was a member of the former Nazi party of Germany. They should be referred to as National Socialists. The term Nazi is and was used almost entirely by those who were not members of the party or group, to degrade those that were. It is simillar to referring to someone of African decent as a n----r.
They are not the same Nazis as in ww2 but they are basicly the same National Socialists.

The point that I was trying to make in a fairly simple fashion was the you rarely get full closure to something. It's legacy can continue.

[MechaThor]

I really Like this concept for the show. Of Course I am sure the ship won't be stuck on course for the entire series, as eventually it will run into problems. Especially when the new bad guys just just predict the route of the ship and set up a trap.

However what I am hoping Universe will bring is a load of fresh new stories and Alien Cultures into the Stargate World. Infact I hope Universe is like a cross between Stargate and Farscape, with all the technologies and history of Stagate but with an Alien filled world like Farscape.

[IrishPisano]

Oh no.... not a TARP!!!!!!!!!

lord knows we can't do anything about a tarp!!!!

[Flyboy]

I really Like this concept for the show. Of Course I am sure the ship won't be stuck on course for the entire series, as eventually it will run into problems. Especially when the new bad guys just just predict the route of the ship and set up a tarp.

However what I am hoping Universe will bring is a load of fresh new stories and Alien Cultures into the Stargate World. Infact I hope Universe is like a cross between Stargate and Farscape, with all the technologies and history of Stagate but with an Alien filled world like Farscape.

But it's got little in common with the original Stargate movie has it? Even Atlantis had SOME mythology.

[IrishPisano]

But it's got little in common with the original Stargate movie has it? Even Atlantis had SOME mythology.

i agree that SGU should have mythology connections...

however

i am beginning to think that, thanks to the expanse of SG-1, mythology is no longer possible for SG at all...

SG1 used:
egyptian
norse
greek
roman
christian
judaic/middle eastern
celtic
asian

towards the end of the goa'uld arc, it kinda became a joke...

they started off with Ra... badass of badasses, then replaced him with Apophis... and kept that up...
they even managed to handle Anubis properly
but after that, things weren't handled/executed so well... they lost something when they shifted to lesser known gods like Yu, Camulus, and Ba'al...

they started to get the ball rolling correctly again with the Ori... but $$$ got in the way...

the Asgard, no complaints there


but having used the most well-known mythologies in the western world now, you're left with little that could be just as effective...

so while i'd like to see it done again, i don't think its possible


plus, if the civilizations we meet have had absolutely no contact with earth, or the milky way, then you may not be able to have any mythologies from earth at all...

maybe the Asgard... maybe...

but defs not the goa'uld, or ancients even...




ooo

maybe

we'll meet some civilizations that are technothiestic in nature
aka, they worship technology...
they speak of the great mechanical dragon in the in the sky that opened doorways to other worlds.... (the gate ship)
etc etc

maybe they'll worship the replicators?

[Sealurk]

SG1 used:
egyptian
norse
greek
roman
christian
judaic/middle eastern
celtic
asian

towards the end of the goa'uld arc, it kinda became a joke...

they started off with Ra... badass of badasses, then replaced him with Apophis... and kept that up...
they even managed to handle Anubis properly
but after that, things weren't handled/executed so well... they lost something when they shifted to lesser known gods like Yu, Camulus, and Ba'al...

they started to get the ball rolling correctly again with the Ori... but $$$ got in the way...

the Asgard, no complaints there


but having used the most well-known mythologies in the western world now, you're left with little that could be just as effective...

so while i'd like to see it done again, i don't think its possible


plus, if the civilizations we meet have had absolutely no contact with earth, or the milky way, then you may not be able to have any mythologies from earth at all...
...
we'll meet some civilizations that are technothiestic in nature
aka, they worship technology...
they speak of the great mechanical dragon in the in the sky that opened doorways to other worlds.... (the gate ship)
etc etc

maybe they'll worship the replicators?

And it was going so well until you mentioned the replicators...

Thing is, while they've used most of the major mythologies and a number of the lesser known ones, they have only really touched on each one, and even then, mostly just by using the names of gods from them. Only rarely did they actually reference mythological events as misinterpreted 'real' world events.

I think there is plenty of potential left in the Stargate franchise to visit, or revisit Earth mythologies, but not for Stargate Universe. Mythology didn't feature much in SGA (which I always considered a failing) because the Pegasus humans didn't have any contact with or knowledge of Earth and the Milky Way, and most of our mythology was formed afterwards, by the Goa'uld and the Asgard, and the Ancients who returned to Earth (Myrddin etc).

Would things be much different for SGU? If the Ancients never got to the follow up ship, they can't have become the basis for mythologies in the cultures they meet...or seed.

[IrishPisano]

i like the idea of a technothiestic society it would be something new for the show...

aside from that

if the Ancients never followed up, then you eliminate some greco-roman myths (Janus for example)... and you eliminate Arthurian legend...

we can assume that the goa'uld did not have intergalactic tech, so we can eliminate the egyptian mythos as well...

HOWEVER... we cannot eliminate Anubis.... as we do not know the full extent of the ancient knowledge he possesses

we also cannot eliminate the Asgard as we know they had IG tech...
or the Ori for the same reason...

that is not to say that we will see either race... but there is the possibility that they can be referenced by some of the races we have met


i think it would be interesting if we met the Second Evolution of the Asgard somewhere...
or perhaps met a race that worshipped the Asgard, and then deal with the explanation to them that not only were the Asgards not gods, but they have also died...

i need to get a job as a writer for SG...

[Flyboy]

And it was going so well until you mentioned the replicators...

Thing is, while they've used most of the major mythologies and a number of the lesser known ones, they have only really touched on each one, and even then, mostly just by using the names of gods from them. Only rarely did they actually reference mythological events as misinterpreted 'real' world events.

I think there is plenty of potential left in the Stargate franchise to visit, or revisit Earth mythologies, but not for Stargate Universe. Mythology didn't feature much in SGA (which I always considered a failing) because the Pegasus humans didn't have any contact with or knowledge of Earth and the Milky Way, and most of our mythology was formed afterwards, by the Goa'uld and the Asgard, and the Ancients who returned to Earth (Myrddin etc).

Would things be much different for SGU? If the Ancients never got to the follow up ship, they can't have become the basis for mythologies in the cultures they meet...or seed.

True, but Atlantis itself was based in mythology. The thing about SGA, is that because the very centre of operations was the ancient sunken city from earth myths, they didnt NEED to have actual mythology episodes like SG1. But SGU is more like a spin off from SGA, not Stargate itself, and is shedding the last links to any mythology.

If the mythology link cannot be as strong, then they need to look hard at what made original Stargate so unique, and that was making it VERY present day, NOT present day with future tech like in Atlantis. So SGU has, imo, two options to be a good show. Keep all the future tech, but ground it in some mythology, or have no mythology, but ground it in contemporary technology and strategy.

[ciannwn]

True, but Atlantis itself was based in mythology. The thing about SGA, is that because the very centre of operations was the ancient sunken city from earth myths, they didnt NEED to have actual mythology episodes like SG1.

Viewers can also speculate about the Wraith. Did the Ancients tell the primitive humans on Earth about them so that history became folklore about vampires? eg. Vampires are 'undead' in that they're animated corpses. Wraith don't have detectable life signs when they hibernate.

Maybe Stargate Universe will be the ideal title. It's a series set in the Stargate fictional universe but it won't have anything relating to the original series apart from Stargates on planets, a ship built by the Ancients and a crew of humans.

[Flyboy]

Viewers can also speculate about the Wraith. Did the Ancients tell the primitive humans on Earth about them so that history became folklore about vampires? eg. Vampires are 'undead' in that they're animated corpses. Wraith don't have detectable life signs when they hibernate.

Maybe Stargate Universe will be the ideal title. It's a series set in the Stargate fictional universe but it won't have anything relating to the original series apart from Stargates on planets, a ship built by the Ancients and a crew of humans.

Point 1 - Interesting. Something I hadn't considered. If we hadn't actually SEEN the Ancients leave pegasus in Before I Sleep, I'd have wondered if one or two had gotten to earth and were the basis of certain legends. Wonder how it would have been if an SGA episode had discovered a wraith on earth in transylvania...

Point 2 - Maybe you're right. But that doesn't sound like good Stargate to me. Only (possibly good) sci fi. SGU will most likely suffer from the same problems that made SG Infinity so hated. (Except the non canon part).

[Sealurk]

Viewers can also speculate about the Wraith. Did the Ancients tell the primitive humans on Earth about them so that history became folklore about vampires? eg. Vampires are 'undead' in that they're animated corpses. Wraith don't have detectable life signs when they hibernate.

Maybe Stargate Universe will be the ideal title. It's a series set in the Stargate fictional universe but it won't have anything relating to the original series apart from Stargates on planets, a ship built by the Ancients and a crew of humans.

Good analogy with the hibernation / undead aspect. Wraith as vampires is probably one of SGA's biggest lost opportunities - after all, life sucking humanoids feature in virtually every Earth culture and mythology. They really are a global cultural archetype, and whilst the vampire thing has been overdone and overused in recent years on TV, I long held out hope SGA could give it a fresh transfusion of blood (!) and a novel twist. Alas, twas not to be.

[ciannwn]

If we hadn't actually SEEN the Ancients leave pegasus in Before I Sleep, I'd have wondered if one or two had gotten to earth and were the basis of certain legends. Wonder how it would have been if an SGA episode had discovered a wraith on earth in transylvania...

One or two Wraith on Earth wouldn't have led to the undead part of the legends. They'd have had no reason to hibernate seeing as they'd never be short of lunches.

So how would the Lanteans have known about Wraith hibernation?

HOLOGRAM ... Then one day our people stepped foot upon a dark world where a terrible enemy slept.

Maybe the Wraith were managing their food resources in their own little corner of Pegasus in the way that they'd evolved to do. A party of Lanteans could have woken them up early.

Point 2 - Maybe you're right. But that doesn't sound like good Stargate to me. Only (possibly good) sci fi.

It could work if -

1: I'm guessing that the first story will be starting on Earth to give some explanation as to why a group of people are being sent to the Destiny. If this is the case this part of the story could have Carter (talking about the technical side) and Daniel because he's the expert on Ancients. Anyone who'd never seen SG1 or SGA wouldn't be baffled by it all because, for them, Carter and Daniel would just be there to help set up the scenario.

2: There is some way in which the Destiny can communicate with Earth on occasion even if the crew can't get back. 'Letters From Pegasus' ended by showing us Walter and Sam at SGC when the transmission from Atlantis was received. SGU could make a big thing out of the first contact so we see one or two familiar faces from SGC. After that the SGU characters could mention communications even though we don't get to see them on TV. This would remind people familiar with SG1/SGA that SGU is set in the same universe.

SGU will most likely suffer from the same problems that made SG Infinity so hated. (Except the non canon part).

I looked it up on wikepedia and it sounds ghastly. I really, really hope that the SGU cast never ends up wearing outfits like that

[Ackeb]

I belive SGu has the potential to become a great show, but the is only if they can retain the current fans of the Stargate world. While this show is meant to draw in more viewers by in a way filling BSG shoes, if they cant manage to keep current fans of the franchise it will be a total failure just as Flying Officer Bennett has said, it will be the next Stargate Infinity.