Arthur's Mantle (918)

[Fargater]

I think it was a natural thing for her to do. Okay, obviously I've never been out of phase, but I think I would do the same thing, sort of subconsiously thinking that if I talked louder, maybe their subconscious would be more intune to me. Or, maybe not even that deep. But, you tend to react like they can hear you. It's not any more unreasonable than her talking to them at any volume in the first place.

Indeed. And think one or both of them did talk louder, and repeated things, as if hoping they could somehow bridge the gap and get them to hear on a subconscious level. I almost thought it worked when that guy said "Wait a minute. . . Oh, it`s nothing." Or whatever he said. And Sam was so hopeful he saw it (as was I) . . . but no. I was perhaps the most engaged in the story during those scenes when they were trying to communicate.

Thinking about that scene, I think it would have been better without the bright light effect. Don't have any special effect, just have the scene, then they all realise that Daniel went out of phase, too. I mean, even if the audience figured out what would happen beforehand, I think it would have fit the effect better if they didn't show that Daniel had been sent out of phase before the characters figured it out.

Hmmm. Interesting thought. That would have worked, even with the surveillance camera stuff, because they could just have had the camera go blank because of the power surge even if there was no bright light. When it happened to Daniel later I thought they were trying to just have the general lighting up without making it obvious that he`d gone out of phase. I even sneaked a peek at my watch to try to figure out how far into the ep it was and whether it was logical for them to bring Sam back at that time to serve another direction in the plot or whether they had time to have Daniel get stuck there too. But I guess on second thought the light did make it pretty obvious that Daniel had been sent out of phase. But it was still fun to watch them figure it out.

[Ziu]

I liked it, although it could be called something else. They didn't even go look for it. They just talked about it. Good ep though. I am starting to like Mitch, that or he is growing on me and I am geting used to him.

Don't worry, they have two more episodes to look for and possibly find the mantle. If not, the looking most likely will continue in the beginning of Season 10.

[atlantisrocks]

Sam: Loved her in this episode. It was the first episode where I got to see Sam really show her comic flare. She was great. It must be frustrating being such a genius when the other local doctors and scientists can't figure out simple things (well, simple to her, anyway). Sam and Daniel's scenes together were great, and they really do seem like brother and sister. Their easy banter and the way they seem to understand each other without all the explanations makes them a joy to watch. They really need to have more interaction together.

That was actually my favorite part of the episode when Sam and Cam poked each other, then Sam and Daniel poking each other! It was so adorable! I agree that Sam and Daniel seem like brother and sister. I also loved when Dr. Lee said "Daniel if you can hear me press yes," and Sam pushed it for him, since Daniel was kinda busy thinking I can't believe this happened to me again!

The Zombie Sodan guy was pretty freaky. Mitchell didn't really bother me this episode, but he's not my favorite character either.

And I absolutely never get tired of the opening theme! It's very cool.

[Maxum]

I never thought BB was trying to be like RDA, so I agree. Amen to the great comedic timing too. I think at first he or they were trying to tone down his personality for Cam, but I don`t like where they take him when they do turn him loose. I want more of the thoughtful Cam from the beginning of the season. He can do the one-liners and not be a doormat without also looking like an idiot, as he has too often in the later eps. If Cam`s read all the mission reports, he should have an even better idea of why he shouldn`t do most of the things they keep writing this character as doing.

I have to wonder what BB thinks of the character. When he got the part he watched all the seasons of SG-1 to get educated. I wonder if he agrees that this guy is believable at all for SG-1 the way they have him behave most of the time.

I agree that the writers can do MUCH better for Mitchell. Ben Browder is a very good actor and perfectly capable of doing the very dramatic, emotional scenes (for anyone who watched Farscape). That's why I enjoyed yesterday's episode so much. I didn't find Mitchell over-the-top or immature. Everything he said and did was not ridiculously out of character. I actually liked the fact that Mitchell was a bit of the fanboy to SG-1. I mean, realistically, SG-1 is famous and legendary, both on Earth and throughout the galaxy. If you get assigned to their team, you're going to be a little giddy. Add in the fact that Mitchell knew Sam Carter, and you get an added layer of familiarity where he doesn't have to start from scratch getting to know everyone. With all that being said, however, I'm hoping that by Season 10, the writing team give a slightly harder 'edge' to Mitchell, but he's by no means an unlikeable character (not that you said that).

Thanks for posting this. I keep finding myself almost hating Cam the way they write him, and look desperately for posts that point out things maybe I`m missing. That said, I can`t agree with everything you said, but it was still nice to read it.

I did like the Sam/Cam interaction, like hitting each other. Like others have said, I immediately thought of the falling thru the floor issue. LOL

And I guess I really need to lighten up, because I was annoyed with Cam pestering Sam after she`d been up all night working on that thing to go and get hash browns. Go get `em yourself, and leave her the frell alone! But why interpret the scene that way? Why not see it as friendly concern and an attempt to get her away for a break? Hmm. Now he`s not so annoying.

And the food talk was funny to a point, but as others have said I thought it was a bit too much. Or not. A couple of ways to look at that. 1) Idiot is more concerned about missing out on roast beef than about their predicament. 2) Cam is not too concerned because hey, it`s happened before (he read the report!) and he`s confident Sam or Daniel will find the solution. The second interpretation is more pleasant. I gotta get that mindset more with this show.

Yeah, I just take it as Mitchell's way of dealing with stress and blowing off steam. Carter invents or tests things, Daniel reads books, and Teal'c blows up things. (Jack went fishing). Like I said, I'm hoping that the writers start to give Mitchell that harder edge come Season 10, but don't remove his sense of humor. You need it with SG-1.

I agree 100% with what you said about Cam`s reasoning to want to go to help the Sodan if possible. But IMO they ruined that for me by not having him show more (or really any) reaction to the news of Jolan`s(?) death at the hands of his own brother, or just a general reaction to the fate of the Sodan.

I guess it didn't bother me because I wasn't as invested in the Sodan as perhaps some other viewers. I do agree that certain plot lines were probably sacrificed to fit the episode into one-hour. Maybe they'll address the loss in later episodes.

Yep, I loved all that too, except I agree more with the people who feel that Dr. Lee is being reduced to comic relief at the expense of his brilliance. He used to be funny and brilliant, but this time they seemed to want him to be funny and inept.

I don't think they changed Dr. Lee's character at all. Remember when he and Daniel were captured by those revolutionaries in South America? He was a bit dippy then too. He was funny and brilliant, but he was definitely a geek. Truthfully, I think Dr. Lee was added to the cast for exactly comic relief, but also for his brilliance as a doctor. He would be someone the SGC could go to when Sam or Daniel are not around to figure out scientific/ancient information. The fact that he has caught on with the viewers was perhaps something they had not foreseen. However, I don't see a different Dr. Lee than the one I was originally introduced to earlier on the show. He's still uncertain, he's still amusing, and he still knows his stuff - he just screws up every now and then in a very endearing way. What person in the entire SGC hasn't, you know what I mean?

Even though it was to me predictable that Daniel would be sent out of phase rather than bringing Sam back, I didn`t care. It wasn`t about "Oooh, now he`s out of phase!" but rather "Now how do they fix this?"

When he initially went out of phase, I couldn't figure out if Sam came back or Daniel went out or did Daniel and Dr. Lee BOTH phase out. Only when Sam and Daniel (and Dr. Lee) reacted did I know, and that was hilarious.

As for the Sodan, I was shocked and VERY disappointed at the lameness of their demise. Didn`t like the Ori Zombie thing, and it just didn`t seem fair to me that after the setup at the end of Babylon for a later confrontation between Volnek and Cam all we got was this blow-up-the-Zombie business. It wasted Volnek IMO to throw him away like that. I`d have preferred a more intellectual philosophical (and physical) conflict. Or was that already resolved by Haikon`s acceptance of our help in dealing with the Prior? Still might have made for some fun personal antagonism from Volnek to Cam.

Also now we`ve lost the Sodan? Another waste. I was looking forward to a much better use of that storyline. I couldn`t believe that these great warriors could be taken out by one Zombie, even if he`s one of their own. and maybe been able to stop him?

Agreed. Not quite sure why the writers went in this direction either.

[Fargater]

Actually it was the Daily Double. It's a referance to horse racing i.e. gambling , kinda like the trifecta (sp) remark Mitchell made earlier.

Ah! I clean forgot about the "Daily Double" and "Trifecta" remarks. And was LOL at those at the time. I wonder if Cam plays the ponies.

[Skydiver]

What's wrong with that? It's a heck of a lot less awkward than how they normally get the history across - which is by the characters telling each other things they already know. I think it's charming that Mitchell sat in his hospital bed reading all the reports. As someone who was stuck at home for 6 weeks straight with my own injury, I can tell you that you'll read just about anything to pass the time.

actually, i don't think it's bad. i'm one of those rare folks that liked jonas. liked that he was new enough to ask those 'what's this' questions.

i was just saying that it's another similarity of the two

[DEM]

I think at first he or they were trying to tone down his personality for Cam, but I don`t like where they take him when they do turn him loose. <snippage> If Cam`s read all the mission reports, he should have an even better idea of why he shouldn`t do most of the things they keep writing this character as doing.

My thoughts exactly. There must to be a middle ground between Pompous and Idiot, and between Doormat and Hyper.

And I guess I really need to lighten up, because I was annoyed with Cam pestering Sam after she`d been up all night working on that thing to go and get hash browns. Go get `em yourself, and leave her the frell alone! But why interpret the scene that way? Why not see it as friendly concern and an attempt to get her away for a break?

For me, it's some ineffable something about his nonverbals (e.g., tone of voice). He sounds condescending, as if Carter doesn't know how to take care of herself. There have been plenty of other scenes in the past in which various characters urged Sam to take it easier and even though they were all said in ways unique to those characters, very rarely did they come across as patronising -- to me. The "Eggheads at Area 51" line didn't help either: Hello?! Recent Head of R&D there! The reading was off, or the line should have acknowledged Carter's recent posting.

Yeah, I enjoyed Sam in this one very much. Some people complained about her shouting at the people as if that would make them hear her, but lots of us have done similar things. I was LOL.

In case you (and Dani347) were referring to my post, I should clarify. I wasn't complaining about the shouting; the shouting was funny. I was complaining about the overall lack of Carter doing ANYthing that moved the plot toward resolution. Yeah, AT was cute and funny and etc. etc., but I want more out of ALL of the protagonists than "they were cute together". ::shrug:: As someone else suggested (I think), even having Sam purposely move Daniel out of phase would have been more efficacious and ACTIVE than standing around hitting the Yes and No keys. Or, as Morse Code is a binary system, use the Y/N keys to push Lee's work in the right direction.

Agreed about the interaction with the other SG soldiers. Was nice to see that.

I hope Col Reynolds returns and: 1) doesn't become a double-agent or 2) die.

Not sure how I feel about the two guns thing. I keep reading people either loving it or hating it, and all their reasons make sense to me.

I'm good with it as long as he doesn't shoot in two directions at once.

Also now we`ve lost the Sodan? Another waste. I was looking forward to a much better use of that storyline. I couldn`t believe that these great warriors could be taken out by one Zombie, even if he`s one of their own.

*sigh*

[golfbooy]

Boy, I've had trouble finding time to sit down and gather my thoughts on Arthur's Mantle. Lucky for you all, though, I've finally mangaged it. I'm sure you'll all enjoy it muchly. Heh, heh, suck on my bluster.

Overall, I have pretty mixed feelings about Arthur's Mantle. I really liked both parts of the story. The whole out of phase scenario was handled really well despite being yet another rehash of an older, and yes, better, SG-1 episode. Likewise, the demise of the Sodan due to their betrayal of the Ori worked for me. However, I think that both of these stories needed more time overall. That is, maybe they each should have been their own episode. Frankly, the Sodan part of the story deserved more drama and oomph. This is an entire race of mythical Jaffa that have now been entirely wiped in one day, women and children included. That's a bigger deal than Arthur's Mantle put forth. And the out of phase element of the story included such terrific character interactions that it too could have been an episode in its own right. Any situation that puts the talents of the actors to work rather than the writers' at this point is a good thing.

I agree with others that the manner in which we learn about all of Merlin's machinations is a bit too easy. Though it wasn't nearly as easy and contrived as Mitchell's pickpocket skills while getting wailed on by Volnek, or Daniel's CTRL+ALT+DELETE fix, but it was pretty easy, too. And I think the SGC keeping that device sitting around for six months (does anyone else think that that's a rather short time stamp for the whole of season 9?) without sending it off to R & D is a bit far fetched. However, I really, really liked all the tie ins to previous Ancient technology in this episode. Between all Merlin's stuff and the Volnek tie in with Telchak's device from Evolution, I'm at least finding the overall depiction of the development and use of Ancient technology in the story believable. I didn't find it too far fetched that Teal'c could see and hear Mitchell given that the two technologies being used are so similar in origin. I'm all for consistent depiction of Ancient technologies, whether they be Ori or Alteran.

Like most of the other posters here, what really sold the episode for me was the character interactions, Sam and Daniel in particular. There are more than a few things not to like about this episode, but I am just so happy to see Sam and Daniel actually be allowed to interact with each other and act like they're friends that I'm willing to forgive nearly everything else. The Big 3, as they have been aptly dubbed, are exceptionally good at providing fans with that great team dynamic when they're permitted. It's a shame that so many episodes this season have been structured in a way that separates the characters, as the past few stories' shining moments have all been brought about by the actors, not the writers.

As I mentioned above, Sam was once again great, and once again came across far more laid back during this whole experience than she might have in previous years. Amanda Tapping seems to be playing Sam much more comfortable in her own skin and much more relaxed in general this season, which I think works nicely as a subtle acknowledgment of all the soul searching Sam's done in recent seasons. She seems to be at peace with both her past and future, whatever it brings. It works for me. Sam's frustration in the control room while Walter and the other scientist were working through the Sodan transmission was a good character moment, and nice reminder of how crucial she is to the SGC and of how intuitively she finds the answers to problems. There wasn't a whole lot of substance for Carter to do in this episode (a crappy trend this year), but I feel they made the most of what was there.

And Daniel doing research in his office? It makes so much sense it's scary. Sometimes I think the writers forget how smart Daniel is or why he goes through the gate to begin with, but they've done great with him these past two weeks. And despite my complaint about Sam not having anything to do but stand around, at least Daniel taking the reins on figuring out the device is logical. For a moment I was afraid Cam was gonna push a button and accidentally get them back in phase so they could go rescue Teal'c. Catastrophe averted.

As for Teal'c, well, I thought Chris Judge did a pretty nice job with his solo work on the Sodan planet. He played his scenes with an experienced, grim seriousness that added to the sparse dialogue amidst the devasted village. If only he hadn't looked so damn silly while doing it. Two P-90s? Seriously, it was a stretch in Off the Grid, but forgivable given the campy nature of the rest of that episode. Here though, it just looked foolish. It was a bad production decision by Peter Deluise, and one that I hope doesn't continue. Give the man back his staff weapon. It's the only thing that can stand up next to Chris Judge's enormous frame. And, while it really doesn't bother me one way or the other, I can see why some people would also like to see him lose the sleeveless shirts. We get it, Teal'c is a huge monster of a man. There's no amount of clothing that could make us forget it. I also liked Teal'c's interactions with Haikon, Reynolds, Mitchell, and all of the other officers on the planet. It's easy to forget just how much of a leader Teal'c is in his own right. And the continuing trend seems to be that Teal'c will calmly ignore Mitchell nipping at his heels each week and just go about doing his thing. I can live with that.

As for Mitchell, I don't know. I feel like each week I write something on here and it's all glowing until I get to his role in episodes. That's because I continually get the impression that the writers don't know what to do with the character, and in the absence of leaving him nothing, instead opt to force him into stupid decisions, scenes, and dialogue. I was really liking Mitchell's interactions with Carter while they were together as well as later when he was in Daniel's lab with Landry. The pushing each other scenes were great in the episode, as was the way that Carter quietly reassured Mitchell that Daniel, Dr. Lee, and the rest of the SGC would figure it all out. But a quick word to the writers--Mitchell doesn't always need to be speaking. It's particularly annoying when he's just spouting inane pop culture references and superfluous throw-away lines in every scene. Cripes, give the man some real dialogue. I'm sure he can handle it, and I'm sure the character would come off better.

Anyway, yes, taking off on his own while in a totally compromised state was yet another bonehead decision. No one knew what he was doing. No one knew he was there. Suppose Reynold's team and the rest all got killed. How would Cambo dial the gate to get back? How would he use the Sodan's transporter to get back to gate in the first place? Would the transporter work on him at all? What if he got seperated from the other team members? I mean, come on. Even if we're going to buy the lame ass "I can gather intel" line, who the hell was he going to communicate it to? I'll tell you who. No one. He couldn't communicate with anyone. That was the whole premise behind his altered state to begin with. But I'm supposed to believe that a Lt. Col. in the airforce who is qualified to lead an SG team would just run off of his own volition, despite the misgivings of the only other person in existence he can communicate with, all the while believing that he can render assistence while in a totally compromised state. SG-1 sort of did something similar in Upgrades, with the upshot of the episode being that the armbands affected their judgement and made them stupid. Perhaps that was mentioned as being a side effect of Merlin's device in Arthur's Mantle and I just missed it? No?

Um, I like Reynolds. Please don't kill him. Eric Breker always gives him the professionalism necessary to add to each episode's drama. Is it wrong of me to wish that he was the new member of SG-1? Competentence shouldn't be so rare in the SGC. But boy is it. I mean, seriously, what's with Dr. Lee? I'll tell ya. Again, TPTB have not just crossed, but completely jumped over the line with characters, sacrificing credibility for the sake of a lame joke. Just as with Nerus' gastronomic splendor, so too here Lee's "wacky professor" routine detracts from the episode rather than accentuates it. It's the kind of thing Mike Greeberg used to keep a handle on, and it's the kind of thing Peter Deluise has trouble leaving out of his direction.

Speaking of Deluise, I've always been of the opinion that his real strength when directing was in outdoor, on location shooting. The First Ones, Allegiance, and Orpheus are just a few that spring to mind, but likewise here I thought the bits with Teal'c on the Sodan world were really well done. Not so much the indoor, on set stuff where as I said above, the tone of the story didn't fit with what else was going on. Lastly, I am terribly disappointed in the now wasted conflict between Mitchell and Volnek. All the build up in Babylon seems like nothing but a bunch of hot air, with both character blustering at each other for naught. I'd have preferred it if more had come from Mitchell's most meaningful experience this season. And to whoever said that Mitchell should have been allowed to react to the deaths of Jolan and his fellow Sodan, you're exactly right. The whole thing is just a waste now.

So, that's about it. Crusade is next week. Um, gee, yeah. How 'bout that fiery face? Just makes your blood boil, though I imagine the reason varies dependig on your outlook.

[Fargater]

I don't think they changed Dr. Lee's character at all. Remember when he and Daniel were captured by those revolutionaries in South America? He was a bit dippy then too. He was funny and brilliant, but he was definitely a geek. Truthfully, I think Dr. Lee was added to the cast for exactly comic relief, but also for his brilliance as a doctor. He would be someone the SGC could go to when Sam or Daniel are not around to figure out scientific/ancient information. The fact that he has caught on with the viewers was perhaps something they had not foreseen. However, I don't see a different Dr. Lee than the one I was originally introduced to earlier on the show. He's still uncertain, he's still amusing, and he still knows his stuff - he just screws up every now and then in a very endearing way. What person in the entire SGC hasn't, you know what I mean?

I think that ep is from S7, which I haven`t entirely seen yet. I`ve seen all seasons thru 6th via the reruns, caved and got the box set of S7 just before they decided to start including S7 in the rerun cycle. Now I just throw the DVD in when the ep airs on SciFi. No commercials that way. I think actually that`s the next ep coming up, so I`ll get to see it now. The little I`ve seen of him though he was always a geek and funny but they made him interesting IMO by having him be brilliant too. Not a stock character.

Maybe you`re right and he wasn`t so bad in this ep. It is true that everyone screws up, and maybe what he did wasn`t so bad. I`ve been reading the back pages and seen others comment that his mistake was an acceptable possibility in the circumstances, so maybe I judged him too harshly.

[Fargater]

Ah! golfbooy! There you are. Was looking thru the thread for your review, but haven`t seen the whole thread yet. Now I know where it is.

<<proceeds to read golfbooy`s comments. . . >>

[betjam]

I enjoyed this episode from start to finish. One of those that made me rewind the tape and watch the last few minutes again because it ended too quickly.

I'm glad that the team let us know they think Cam is cocky. Daniel's "Why am I not surprised?" and Teal'c trying to hit him with the gun were great. Cam shouldn't be a perfect fit for the team from Day One. What fun would that be? Now we can watch him develop/mature over time.

My husband had missed last few weeks so when Teal'c struck his pose, I explained, "That's how he holds his guns now." I guess they can make the action figure in that pose.

One thing I thought odd, was that Landry said, "Mitchell, Carter, and Daniel." Not Jackson, or Dr. Jackson.

[contact2918]

And then, on the flip side, he seems to not care that much about the entire Sodan village being destroyed once he gets there, and he seems to care even less about one of his Sodan friends being turned into a zombie that now must be blown into pieces. (I mean, this WAS the same Sodan he befriended, right? Am I wrong?) I mean, if they want to characterize Mitchell as a grade-A jerk (to put it nicely) then fine, but please make up your minds, TPTB.

No, this was the brother of the one who he befriended. Volnek, our Ori-Zombie, was the one that Mitchell shot and was taken back to the SGC in "Babylon". They never liked each other. Jolan is the one who Mitchell befriended, and apparently one of the first killed when his brother was zombified.

[wolverine_nl]

cause the gate address to the home of the weapon that will destroy ancient beings came complete with earth's point of origin

Euhm, the device was found on earth, so that would be logic

[LMichelle]

It was nice to see Daniel doing something (the translation) that directly relates to his skills as a linguist. Usually he's out shooting things like a military man. Uh, he's not. Remember when Daniel did archealogy-ish things? I know it's hard, but try and think back.

A good team episode. Much better than last week's.

[Fargater]

My husband had missed last few weeks so when Teal'c struck his pose, I explained, "That's how he holds his guns now." I guess they can make the action figure in that pose.

LOL
Someone farther back said something about Teal`c reminding them of the Terminator. So now when I see him shooting away with the two guns I`m going to think of him as the Teal`c-inator.


hee hee
And in most of those action figures the muscles are way exaggerated to the point of being hilarious. But in his case it would almost look accurate.