Stronghold (914)

[Strix varia]

Mitchell was showing initiative. There was a Staff Cannon enplacement pinning the rescue team down and another Jaffa in some hardened cover. Mitchell used the chaos to sneak forward and eliminate both positions. This, in turn, took the heat off the rescue units and they were then able to advance.

I think that argument might work up until the point he took off for the pyramid without backup.

On edit: And I blame the writers for this entirely... they could easily have written it to where he didn't do anything wrong. But the fact that they had him cornered by Jaffa at the end sort of indicated to me that they purposefully wanted him to come across as having been out of line. Unfortunately, for me, that didn't help his character.

[jckfan55]

I don't know if they could do an entire episode around it, but it would be nice to see it come up in an episode where Bra'tac is elected leader.

majorsal

Agreed. Not a whole episode, but a minute or 2 of story time perhaps.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

The only problem with that, Shipper, is that in dangerous occupations when your leader/buddy has a bad day and can't control him/herself, people end up dying. It's like football where the players get caught up in the heat of battle... whoops, there's a quick fifteen yard penalty for a personal foul hurting the team. Only in combat, it's whoops, there's a couple people killed or wounded because someone was too stupid to think.

But wasn't that exactly the point of the b-plot, to show that Cam can be rash under pressure, and others end up paying the price? Didn't Sam call out to him when he dashed off to do what, this time, turned out to be a successful stupid move?

I think there's potential here for Cam to make some rash action that will really put his team in jeopardy. I look forward to it.

[Dani347]

Okay, everywhere I go, I read about this episode being Daniel-lite. But, isn't it more Sam-lite? She disappeared from the episode after the briefing, all the way until she came to bring the memory device to Mitchell.

Now, at first, I was just looking at the quality of the Daniel scenes, and wasn't thinking of quantity. The quality was fantastic, imo. (By quality, of course I mean character wise and plot wise) Daniel was Daniel, he contributed, and in a realistic fashion -meaning it was clear that he wasn't in charge, but he wasn't tagging along, either. I felt Daniel was in character throughout the whole thing. So, I would feel it was good for Daniel based on that alone. But, then, I decided to see what the quantity was like. I counted 7 scenes spaced out throughout the episode that he was in. Now, I already knew he wouldn't have the most scenes, but I think 7 is hardly light, or it didn't feel that way to me. Plus, like I said, I felt he contributed or conveyed info to the audience in the majority. I'd say only the very beginning where they found out from Bra'tac that Teal'c was missing, did he not really do much, but since it was just the set up scenes, so I wasn't expecting anything from that. And, I didn't count the battle scene, but I suppose it could count as 8. So, like I said, a Sam-lite episode, yeah. I see that. I don't see a Daniel-lite episode, especially an episode that was more lite for Daniel than any of the others.

[binkpmmc]

But wasn't that exactly the point of the b-plot, to show that Cam can be rash under pressure, and others end up paying the price? Didn't Sam call out to him when he dashed off to do what, this time, turned out to be a successful stupid move?

I think there's potential here for Cam to make some rash action that will really put his team in jeopardy. I look forward to it.

This alone indicates he should not be co-leader of this team - he is too emotional and is not ready. If he can be rash under pressure than he has no business co-leading anyone, anywhere until he can control that because he could very well get himself, and worse yet, a teammate injured or killed with his rash hot-headed, emotionally charged stunts, all because he "had a bad day" - that would be the "others end up paying the price" part. No excuse for anyone in the real world in a professional position and no excuse for a supposed military man with a supposed wonderfully mary-sue background who is supposed co-leader of this team.

His behaviour distracts the other team members from the job they are out to do since they have to go off after a half-cocked Mitchell to save his rash, hot-headed a$$ while they're supposedly on a rescue mission for Teal'c - bad form, very bad form. If he wasn't the supposed co-leader this type of behaviour may not be so bad as it could be part of his character as he works with SG1 to "learn from the best" which was the original premise stated in Avalon - maybe then this type of rash, immature behaviour, which IMO shows very bad judgment, would be acceptable and would make sense within the context of the team.

[AGateFan]

But wasn't that exactly the point of the b-plot, to show that Cam can be rash under pressure, and others end up paying the price? Didn't Sam call out to him when he dashed off to do what, this time, turned out to be a successful stupid move?

I think there's potential here for Cam to make some rash action that will really put his team in jeopardy. I look forward to it.

You look forward to the team "lead" putting the team in jeopardy? Really?
Ok, so if my disconnect is that great then there is no hope that I will ever enjoy this show.

IMHO the team "lead" should not be the one putting the team in jeopardy, he should be the one pulling the team out of jeopardy when other people do something foolish to put it in jeopardy. So if this is Mitchells role then he should not be the "lead" he should be the new hothead 2ic or something. JMHO.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

You look forward to the team "lead" putting the team in jeopardy? Really?

I was talking about the potential for good drama, that's all.

I'm not going to enter into any debate over Mitchel's "right to lead." I wouldn't have written him that way, but TPTB have and it's their call to make. So, working with what's been given us, I'm just saying....

[Strix varia]

But wasn't that exactly the point of the b-plot, to show that Cam can be rash under pressure, and others end up paying the price? Didn't Sam call out to him when he dashed off to do what, this time, turned out to be a successful stupid move?

I think there's potential here for Cam to make some rash action that will really put his team in jeopardy. I look forward to it.

But nobody paid a price this time. His friend told him he shouldn't change, so he didn't, and he got to go up to the ship by himself, play the hero, rescue Teal'c, and earn Teal'c's undying gratitude for saving his life. Where is the lesson in that? That is telling me that it's okay to be rash and impatient under pressure... you win a few you lose a few, why change?

The writers seem to be telling us we should view Mitchell as a hero most of the time, then a buffoon and comedic relief part of the time, then, I don't know what we were supposed to get out this ep, exactly, except that he's sometimes rash and impatient with mixed results, but maybe that he's going to be true to himself from now on (whatever that means)... and all of that would be perfectly okay, except that he was given the leadership of SG-1. That's my sticking point. For some reason, I have it in my head the leader of Earth's flagship team, a Lt. Colonel in the United States Airforce, should do better than periodically put his team in jeopardy because he's naturally impatient.

On edit: As a junior officer, he'd be a great character, and I wouldn't be discussing this as an issue.

[Skydiver]

On edit: As a junior officer, he'd be a great character, and I wouldn't be discussing this as an issue.

i thnk that's my issue. if cam was a major or captain, he'd be cool. he'd be fun and i could see the flightyness coming into play. he's exhuberant and it shows. and while i do enjoy cam, i find it a bit worrying that the writers, while telling us ad nauseum how great and wonderful and fantastic he is have yet to really SHOW us that he's got the right stuff to be a team leader.


that's gonna be cam's greatest handicap.

as to his brashness getting someone hurt. might happen. but i'm sure he'll either treat us wiht a great angst fest or he'll be absolved with a 'that's ok cam, i know you've had a rough day' cause that seems to be the only way the writers want to treat thier new super hero

[nccjones]

i thnk that's my issue. if cam was a major or captain, he'd be cool. he'd be fun and i could see the flightyness coming into play. he's exhuberant and it shows. and while i do enjoy cam, i find it a bit worrying that the writers, while telling us ad nauseum how great and wonderful and fantastic he is have yet to really SHOW us that he's got the right stuff to be a team leader.


that's gonna be cam's greatest handicap.

as to his brashness getting someone hurt. might happen. but i'm sure he'll either treat us wiht a great angst fest or he'll be absolved with a 'that's ok cam, i know you've had a rough day' cause that seems to be the only way the writers want to treat thier new super hero

I have to agree on this. I don't think his character would bother me as much if he became the 4th on the show and maybe a Capt or Major. Then all of this would make sense and it wouldn't bother me as much. But since it's apparent TPTB want him to be the star and hero of the show, the others are getting pushed aside like when they were by the rings and only Mitchell went up...riiiiiiight, only one could go up because they may not have a way down. That excuse does not fly in my book. I don't recall the team ever letting just one go because they may not get back, they always went as a team. This was purely contrived so Mitchell could go up and be the hero and rescue Teal'c so he'll have his undying gratitude. Gag me with a spoon.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

On edit: As a junior officer, he'd be a great character, and I wouldn't be discussing this as an issue.

You'll get no argument from me on that point.

Makes me wonder if the screw up that cost Buddy his health, his position on the X303 mission and, ultimately, his life, is a secret only those two shared. Mitchell has an impeccable record. Surely a screw-up would have been noted on his record and General Whatisname would have remarked on it, even called into question Jack's decision to let Cam have command of SG-1.

The way it was presented I can't help but think that it is a secret, but that only serves to diminish the character even more, which I doubt the PTB intended.

[PG15]

Wasn't the buddy injured because he tried to help Cam?

[Shep'sSocks]

Haven't seen all of this episode but I like it heaps, if only because Reed Diamond (squeeee!), Ba'al (in camel suede, squeeeee!) and Mingo. Or possibly, Fanti.

[Draugr]

Am I the only one who wants the Jaffa to submit to Baal?

Also, the little skirmish at the end reminded of the old days when the Goa'uld were in their prime.

[valaCB]

Ben was VERY good when he was with his friend but when he joined to the team...i didn't like it, it's like no chemistry between the main characters

P.S - BEN IS HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!