Babylon (908)

[Seastallion]

Also, did I hear right, and Sam used her walkie-talkie thing and called "Cameron"??? Talk about a breach in military protocol. She shouldn't even call him "Mitchell," but instead either Colonel or Sir.

Yeah, you heard right, but I really wouldn't fret over it. The fact is, that she and Mitchell are the same rank. When Mitchell was going to first join SG-1 he had expected to be serving under Carter. The only reason Mitchell is in command, and she isn't, is because there was no SG-1 until Mitchell reconstituted it. In any case, I don't think of the 'new' SG-1 as I did the 'old' SG-1. The 'new' team is much more a team of equals, in which Mitchell is only technically the superior officer by default. Don't get me wrong, the 'old' team was a close-knit band of *cough* brothers *cough* ( *thinking to myself that calling Sam a 'brother' is somehow just so wrong* ). However, the difference is that Col. O'Neill was the undisputed leader of the SG-1, despite his close friendship with the members of his team. Mitchell is the leader, but mostly only by title. He respects the 'old' SG-1 members way too much to get too cocky with them. He wanted to work with the best, and he knows he'd best treat them that way.

About Mitchell being 'rude' to Teal'c by talking about him behind his back... I didn't take it that way. While he very much respects the team, I think he is also wise enough to know they're people too, that can make mistakes. His informal banter with them lets them know he's not going to take them way too seriously (that would be bad... no one wants a 'puppy' following them around), despite his great respect. Also Cam new that Teal'c was well within earshot of what he was saying, so he wasn't really talking behind his back (well, okay, literally speaking he was... but only because he actually was behind Teal'c's back.).

I liked this episode, and while it wasn't on par with say... "The Lost City" or "Heroes" it was still a good episode. We needed some character development for Cam, and we finally got a little. This is what we know so far about Cam --

*- He's a fighter, unwilling to give up easily, even when the odds seem to be stacked against him.
*- He likes movies and TV, as shown by his constant quotes.
*- He may or may not have a slight thing for Dr. Lam.
*- About the only thing he seems to take real seriously, are his commanding officers... everything else is fair game. I think he probably does it to hide his own bewilderment. He's like a kid in a candy-store when it comes to off-world adventures, but since he's still relatively new he really hasn't quite gotten used to the 'weirdness' of space yet.
*- He's learning not to run off at the mouth as much, particularly when dealing with the Jaffa who don't mix well with it. As evidenced by his holding back further explanation when he admitted to killing the Sodan Warrior.
*- He's picked up a few fighting moves... probably still not as skilled in single hand-to-hand combat as Teal'c (Teal'c has the advantage of size, strength, and experiance in combat), but given he was trained in an elite form of Sodan martial arts he could probably hold his own against Teal'c much better than O'Neill could have.

I found the Sodan interesting, but I think they are probably headed for some sort of division, perhaps even civil war. I think the Ori would very much like to get the Sodan as followers, because it would give them elite trained warriors to do their bidding already in our galaxy, meaning they are familiar with the territory.

I don't really have much to nit-pick over... mainly because I don't look for things to pick at. I simply watch to enjoy the show, and consciously take note of the parts of the show I enjoy the most. I have very little negative input on any episode I watch. Maybe I set my default level for enjoyment at what many people apparently consider a 'mediocre' level, so when a show has good points in it, the show automatically exceeds any expectations. And when a show is really good, it just blows me away. On the otherhand, it could just be that I'm not picky as some folks, so by default I'm not so hard to please. Personally, I think the latter is true.

...and now... to prove my "un-picky-ness"... I rate this episode: Outstanding..!!!

[1DanielForMe]

All in all, I found this episode rather mediocre. It's probably my least favourite season 9 episode so far. I did love the bit when Cameron was impersonating Teal'c, though!

[Temporarily_cloned]

Why bring in the cig-dude from X-Files and have him do NOTHING? He never even spoke. Unless he is coming back????

I knew I saw this actor somewhere before! Thanks, FoolishPleasure

[ShimmeringStar]

What you ought to understand that there is NOTHING original. The only thing that matters is execution. Anyone that goes out to look for things to nit are NEVER going to enjoy the show for what it is.

True... there's nothing original under the sun. It's only on how those same 26 (or was it 36?) plot lines (in books, movies, TV series, sitting around the campfire telling stories... ) are packaged to the next generation that makes it seem new to them. And what makes it interesting is the unexpected & different twists that the writers put on it. And most importantly, when you have the actors/actresses who have the skills/range and 'newness' to the viewers to sell it as something new.

So I can understand many posters' POV that it is the same stuff in exactly the same execution 'cause I share some of their sentiments along those lines. The 'original team' SG that drew me in, while it was a 20-years later rehash of the focus and fascination on all things Eygptian created in the 1970's with the Tutenkhamen exhibit that toured the world, it did put its own spin on the mythology and kept it fairly close to present day reality. And the actors for the most part were talented and new enough to most of us that it was a pleasure to get to know them as well as the characters they played.

IMOHO there's nothing new about the execution of these retreaded plots, and very little that's new in the acting department. (And I do like CB and BB from their Farscape days.)

There are two ways to rate an episode--on its own and within context of the series.

In the context of the series, this was a crucial episode. So far, we've had little character development for Mtichell. This episode provided that.

I agree it provided development for him and that it wasn't a completely terrible episode. But there were times I kept thinking oh good... they've got Ben & they can take this dramatic arc to a really *wow* kind of place in the 10 minutes before the next commercial break... and (at least for me) that didn't happen. I wanted it to be a *wow* since I really like SG & there's only next week's shows before we're left high & dry here in the States 'til the 2nd half of the season starts, but it wasn't... (although to get a close-up view of BB's baby blues and *ahem* chest was some nice eye candy.... )

[jyh]

all the guest stars were great tonight. always a fan of tony todd (head sodan guy), and i liked the fighter mitchell trained with (i think this was the actor on 'without a trace' last night). the villiage looked super too, with details and such.

Omigod!!! You're right! The guy Mitchell bonded with (I think his name was Jolan) WAS the same guy from Without a Trace, which episode had been on the night before. I kept saying to my son "That guys looks so familiar!" but I couldn't place him.... silly me, I'd only seen him less than 24 hours earlier. Thanks for noticing that, Majorsal. Also, I remember seeing Tony Todd years ago in one or two episodes of Hercules. Even then he played a king or some other head dude. The guy just exudes authority, I guess. And I gotta say, I loved, loved, LOVED watching Mitchell train. Altho it seemed an awful lot to ask of someone who had just been staff-blasted the day before. But I realize the episode spanned a few weeks, so I'm going to go with the asusmption that he at least got to start out slow and work his way up to all that running & fighting!

[scifiannie]

Looks like I'm the only one who liked the episode a lot. About time they put Mitchell front and center. Loved the been-there-done-that reference to coming close to death (he almost died shooting down the alkesh) and all the southernisms. I liked the fly-boy swagger, too. And the fact that he isn't all macho like the captured Sodan warrior. Ben Browder really knows how to do pain and suffering and when that's over, the charm came through. I could believe he brought his enemy over to his side.

But I do think, as somone else said, the episode was derivative. Not all that familiar with other SG episodes (I didn't really think it was similar to the Warrior except the single combat aspect...) but I did see The Last Samauri all over the place, including the constant cutaways to the two children. Then again, if you listen to any of the Peter deLuis (sp?) commentaries on the DVDs (he directed Babylon) he steals from stuff anytime he can...

But I was happy to see Mitchell finally take center stage.

[chocdoc]

I really wanted to like this episode, but for me, it was just boring. I want to like Mitchell, but this episode didn't make me like him more or less. I like Ben Browder, but I am just not getting into the Mitchell character much. I know this can change for me--I am planning on it. No offense to BB fans though, but I don't get why this actor is top billing. He's good, but no better than the three originals still on the show. I just don't see the wow factor here.

I also see Carter as far more competent as the leader and as military officer at this point. It still is not apprarent to me why Mitchell would be the leader---it isn't even clear that he really is.

And Lam---I am not warming up to her at all. She should not be at SGC with that kind of attitude toward her father. Her behavior toward Landry seemed highly inappropriate and unprofesional to me. They may have father-daughter conflict, but it needs to be contained while on the job.

I am glad that Mitchell had the spotlight because it was about time, but it may have been better to have Mitchell and one other team member together working against the odds. I needed just a bit more team in the episode, and not just "the Mitchell episode."

And the plot was predictable---way too predictable.

TPTB said we would be getting team episodes (like what is happening in SGA!)---we need those now. We need to know that all four care about each other. Even if they would have had Teal'c, Sam, and Daniel all greeting Mitchell when he came back through the stargate---something. This episode had too much of "one character with the guest star syndrome" rather than more interaction with the four main cast members.


I'm usually not so pessimistic, so looking forward to next week's two episodes!!!! They could be great! (And have liked the last two episodes before this one).

[Agent_Dark]

Also, did I hear right, and Sam used her walkie-talkie thing and called "Cameron"??? Talk about a breach in military protocol. She shouldn't even call him "Mitchell," but instead either Colonel or Sir.

Ummm, calling someone Sir or Colonel over the radio is also a massive breach in communication protocol.... But it doesn't seem to stop anyone for the past 8 years...
Actually, its probably 'better' to go by first name anyway. They're alot more common then surnames, which makes it harder for an enemy listening in to identify who's being addressed.

I did enjoy seeing Carter in full soldier mode in the teaser. I always enjoy seeing that and she does it very well. If she's not in charge of SG1, she should be. I have the distinct feeling that with Mitchell looking out for them either he or they will be dead in five minutes flat.

For a guy who supposedly spent '6 months in Airborne Training at Fort Benning' he didn't learn much hey?
Teal'c indicates that he's heard something, so what does Mitchell do? Stand next to Daniel and start yakking on about something. 'Gee, there might be enemies around, but Teal'c can take care of it right? I'll just have a nice little chat with Dr. Jackson and an Earl Grey, no milk.'
Why would the person with a Sub-Machine Gun stay back and cover when Teal'c is carrying a freakin support weapon. They don't make those things just to look cool...

Pretty much no Sam and next to no Daniel :\ What the hell happened to the team part of SG1??? Sure there have always been episodes that have focused more on one character, but so far we've seen jack all team together-ness

IMO the writers have made Mitchell way too flippant and sarcastic. O'Neill had the sarcasm down pat and only used it when it was called for, to good effect. Mitchell on the other hand seems to try and make a joke about everything, and most of the time just falls flat :|

The rest of the show was okay... definately better than Ties That Bind (at least it had something worthwhile to offer to the overall storyline) but still pretty average compared to other episodes. I kept wondering when Tom Cruise would show up and lead the Sodan to battle against the Ori though...
The Sodan warrior guys themselves weren't bad. I'll be happy to see them come back. Lord Haidon kept reminding me of Morpheus for some reason

[SierraGulf1]

Lord Haidon kept reminding me of Morpheus for some reason

Holy hell, I didn't realize it at first but you're right.

[LaCroix]

Agent_Dark

The person that played Lord Haidon was Tony Todd, (it's almost like Lord Rayden from Mortal Kombat). At first I thought it was Isaac Hayes from Reckoning and that they were trying to relive their glory days.

That is by association, Isaac Hayes was in Escape From New York along with
Kurt Russell.

Also let me augment my previous post by saying that, when Mitchell was using "Bones" it was almost like their trying to make him into another O'Neill--
Phasers, We can't call it Enterprise?

[Dave Thomer]

the writers never had the characters explicitly mock the situation the way Mitchell did tonight. It's difficult to take the show seriously when the writers are admitting outright that they're out of ideas.

I didn't so much take it as mocking, as Mitchell recognizing the parallel.

Have you ever watched a show or a movie, and seen a character about to make the same dumb move that hundreds of characters before him have made, and yelled something like, "C'mon, dummy, you never split up to go down the dark hallway! Haven't you ever watched any TV?" Well, here we have Mitchell in a situation he's seen before. And so he actually uses his pop culture knowledge to possibly find a solution. I think that's actually kinda neat.

I'm assuming that Mitchell helped come up with the plan, which I don't know for sure. A problem with the episode is that it doesn't show you the decision point, or let you understand why the Sodan decided not to kill Mitchell. I do think that's a recurring problem with the season and with the entire series, but hey, it is what it is.

What I did like about the ep was Mitchell's approach to solving the problem. He was calm but forceful, he focused on trying to figure out the best way to connect with the people around him, and he didn't let his personal problems get in the way of trying to work against the Ori. It may be because I like Browder, but I do see Mitchell's people skills being one thing that might set him apart.

[puddlejumper747]

I didn't think this was a bad episode. Certainly not the best one this season, but....it was still alright.
It at least had enough momentum to kept me interested/awake for an hour. It wasn't that unimpressive.

Some questions I had, though.
1) This legendary group of rebel Jaffa....where do they get new symbiotes from, once the ones they're carrying mature enough to start taking hosts, and once their children grow old enough to require one for themselves?

2) The Jaffa-dude who they sent back home to that planet....did he take tretonin with him? I mean, I thought he needed to take regular doses of it to survive. It's not a one-time dose, is it? Will he just take another symboite?

3) And when he tells everyone that Mitchell is still alive back on Earth (which, I assume, he almost certainly will)....what's going to happen to his brother for allowing and helping Mitchell to escape? Will they overlook it, since blood never really had been shed in the first place? Or will his brother convince him not to say anything about it?

4) And what the heck happens with the Prior threat? We have the village leader convinced, and Jaffa resistance group against the Ori forming, and everyone on the planet in danger of being wiped out if they try to fight....is this storyline ever going to be revisited in any later episodes, or are we just supposed to never find out?

[akimbo]

I liked this ep, too. So don't worry, there are plenty of us out here.

I definitely saw the parallels to other SG-1 eps, TOS and Last Samurai (right down to the reactions of the kids watching Mitchell train and providing a running commentary on his progress - I can't wait for Peter DeLuise to tell us in the commentary how he "lifted" that one ).

The audience knew the two warriors were brothers, the audience saw the "drug induced almost death" (or some other familiar plot device) coming to save Mitchell (you didn't think he was going to die did you?) and many of you probably heard the familiar TOS fight music in your head during the last fight scene (I know I did). But I didn't think of it as a bad thing.

I agree with what others have said though: it's the execution of familiar stories, the unique twists that let you enjoy it or not. How many "buddy" movies have you watched? Which ones worked and which ones didn't? They're all formulaic and derivative. Some are definitely better than others. And as usual, its all about the characters and the interpretation than it is the actual plot points.

I loved that they used this opportunity to get to see more of Mitchell. He took the thinking man's warrior to Sodon and won them over with his physicality and tenacity before pressing too hard about the Ori. (Knowing that pressing too hard could get you killed is a good thing.)

I loved knowing that Ben Browder did most of his own stunts and has that physical presence (even if he doesn't quite know how to fire a P90 yet). But I also liked the small moments between Mitchell and the Sodon warriors...how he won them over or at least made them think about it.

I liked the opening scene when we actually saw the team all at the same time in the same scene. (Cool! Want more of that!) I liked that Mitchell felt comfortable enough with Teal'c to pick on him with the team, but that the team is not quite "settled" with each other yet.

The stuff back at the SGC, though, didn't do it for me and felt a bit jumbled. Like they were desperately trying to make sense of how they could be looking for Mitchell for weeks without actually doing anything but talking about it. That didn't seem quite as well executed as even some of the other SG-1 eps (Solitudes, Crystal Skull, Hundred Days, etc.). But its also true that the SGC weren't going to come up with the magic bullet that finds/saves Mitchell, because Mitchell saves himself. (Huzzah for Mitchell saving himself!) So the SGC couldn't really succeed and make the plot work. Poor Dr. Lee though.

I'm going to take the ep for what it was: a springboard that accomplishes a lot for future eps:
- It establishes Mitchell's character a little better
- It acquaints us with the Sodon and gives us an ally there
- It introduces Smoking Man Prior
- It was also fun to watch.

So while it might not be the masterpiece of Heroes or Threads or "insert favorite ep here", it was quite satisfying for me.

[Albion]

IMO the writers have made Mitchell way too flippant and sarcastic. O'Neill had the sarcasm down pat and only used it when it was called for, to good effect. Mitchell on the other hand seems to try and make a joke about everything, and most of the time just falls flat :|

Can only agree with this, too. Again, for me, it comes down to the difference between SG being an above par, special show that had an air of reality about it, where the responses of the characters were rarely that of TV characters, but of real human beings, and SG just being another same old, same old TV show.

Jack always had a reason for his humour. Whether it was to distract an enemy's attention away from his team and onto him, or to defuse a tense situation or a hundred other reasons. There was always a reason. Mitchell's humour - returning to the theme of real people -v- TV characters acting to a specific set of rules we see in all shows - is just the wisecracking for the sake of it leading man.

I just don't get the same sense that this guy is what he's supposed to be as I used to with Jack. Or that I do with Daniel, Sam and Teal'c. When they said or did something, I believe in them utterly. I knew that when Daniel tried to translate something it wasn't because he'd read it in the script two hours earlier but because he'd spent years studying languages. When Jack started shooting, I knew he was competent with a gun because he'd spent years training in the military.

But so far with Mitchell - I see an actor playing a character as scripted. No more, no less. And that's not really a criticism of BB, I hasten to add. It simply means he's doing the same job as any other TV actor in any other show I watch. And that for me is precisely the problem. RDA and everyone else previously involved in the show did something more, elevated it to something I'd never seen before, invested it with that sense of reality, of watching people not characters. Something above and beyond the norm. And it was that that attracted me to SG in the first place. I knew I was watching something superior to everything else that was out there.

I have the same problem with Landry and Lam, I have to say. They aren't real to me in the same way that Hammond and Frasier were.

Maybe they can't ever be. Perhaps, for a time, we simply had a golden age, that marvellous serendipity where luck and fate as much as skill and talent mean all the elements come together precisely to make something sparkle. A classic. And maybe once that's gone, it's impossible to recreate.

That doesn't mean that SG is now a bad show. Or a poor one. Or that I've lost interest in watching it or don't enjoy it any more. Just that it's one show I enjoy among many. Rather than being so high above everything else I watched that nothing else came close.

Albion

[VironX]

i actually liked the episode....... but w/e