Babylon (908)

[ForeverSg1]

I don't get it? Why are so many people having issues with Carter calling Mitchell by his first name? The way they have written Mitchell, he and Sam are of the same rank. Mitchell was temporarily given command of SG-1, but they have not really said who is really in charge thus far. Mitchell and Carter seem to have established a very friendly relationship since his injury in Lost City and Mitchell has called Carter 'Sam' in Avalon, Beachhead and EDM.

I am rather glad that Carter doesn't have to spend another year being the only person on the team to have to refer to someone as 'Sir'. I was getting rather tired of hearing 'sir' on off-world missions and while off-duty. It's actually quite refreshing to think that she and Mitchell are equals.

[esoap524]

I am rather glad that Carter doesn't have to spend another year being the only person on the team to have to refer to someone as 'Sir'. I was getting rather tired of hearing 'sir' on off-world missions and while off-duty. It's actually quite refreshing to think that she and Mitchell are equals.

Amen!

[Fargater]

While I may not be among the majority, I thought this was a pretty good episode. Mitchell finally really got involved, getting some serious action. I mean, come on, groundbreaking events aren't supposed to happen every damn week. Little things build upon each other to form something big. The introduction of the Sodan may be one of those "little things". Some of you I think are expecting way too much. And even if you got it, others would find something to complain about. This season is far from over, and I just hope by its end, all of us, well, most of us anyway (some can never be pleased), will have seen enough things we like.

I thought I was going to read this whole thread and then post my comments, but I keep going, "Yeah!" And "NO NO NO!" every other post.

I agree with you. This ep is setting up a lot of things that can happen in future. Someone mentioned further back that the one without the symbiote (sorry, forgot his name) should now need tretonin. I said the same thing elsewhere. Did they send him with a supply or will he need to get more? How often must he take it? And just the fact that he is alive without the symbiote will be eye-opening to the other Sodan (unless he tries to hide the fact that it`s missing). To finally have a way to be independent of the Goa`uld they hate yet need for symbiotes has to be worth a lot. Heck, I can already see a storyline with him needing more tretonin and (if he concealed the missing Junior issue) confiding in his brother, who already has the beginnings of a bond with Mitchell, and maybe they`ll try to contact SGC for tretonin. Maybe they`ll all want to lose Junior and get it, and there`s an alliance forming right there.

[majorsal]

i havn't read any spoilers but as soon as i saw the smoking guy i knew this was a set up ep. with all the talk of tradtion and the sodan originally being the elite gaurd the best of the best jaffa. their arc can go one of 2 ways. either they join the jaffa and bring some order to their population (which i hope it isn't at least not yet) or (what i hope it is) they will follow the ori and become their elite gaurd. with their strong ethic and apparent great skill together with some ori technology they will hopfully be a great force to be reckoned with.

Sodan ori elite gaurds will add someone the free worlds to fight against. they can't do anything to the priors and the ori's people seem to be along way a way, also not trained at all. when we start seening prior/ori bases being established in the MW i think SG1 will feel more like SG1 with ground battles and situations where a small team is needed to infiltrate a base working together.

so i guess we're seeing the sodan as the solution to the free jaffa's probs? the sodan have lived free for a loooong time, so they should be perfect leaders/teachers to the new free jaffa. i hope this happens.


sally

[pittsburghgirl]

Not their best ep, but i guess if u look at it purelly as build up and an atempt to give more depth to mitchell then it was to bad.

i thought mitchell was good and i'm starting to enjoy his charictor. i havn't read any spoilers but as soon as i saw the smoking guy i knew this was a set up ep. with all the talk of tradtion and the sodan originally being the elite gaurd the best of the best jaffa. their arc can go one of 2 ways. either they join the jaffa and bring some order to their population (which i hope it isn't at least not yet) or (what i hope it is) they will follow the ori and become their elite gaurd. with their strong ethic and apparent great skill together with some ori technology they will hopfully be a great force to be reckoned with.

Sodan ori elite gaurds will add someone the free worlds to fight against. they can't do anything to the priors and the ori's people seem to be along way a way, also not trained at all. when we start seening prior/ori bases being established in the MW i think SG1 will feel more like SG1 with ground battles and situations where a small team is needed to infiltrate a base working together.


my main problems with this ep.
who didn't see that guy training him to be the kin a mile away??
last samuri anyone?
that was the worst interigation i have ever seen. and i dont know why Dr lam didn't want them to interogate him they didn't do anything.

as for Dr. Lam and her antagonistic attitude toward daddy-i actually was waiting for him to slap her. She is working in a military facility for the military-what did she expect them to do-offer him tea and crumpets?? I know that they are building up the inevitable confrontation between daddy and his little girl-but she ain't Janet-and not even Janet was that dense.

[Fargater]

It seems to be that people don't get Lam just yet. To me, her snarkiness was perfectly in character.

Think about it: she's Landry's daughter, and some how or another, her mother and her father had a falling out because Daddy was more concerned with his job than his family. He literally made the choice of putting his occupation before his private life, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason why him and his wife divorced.

And from what i can understand and what I can see in their relationship, Lam doesn't like her father for leaving them. that dislike has grown into resentment, and from how awkward they were in TPTB, I would guess that before this gig, before Jack appointed her at the SGC, her and her father haven't spoken for many many years.

They're both pretty stiff, and she's still carrying a bit of a grudge. She's trying to show him that, hey, he left! He wanted his job, not his family! And only NOW he's trying to get back to the family thing?

She's a grown woman. She could possibly be married (taking Lam as a husband's last name. If she's not, then maybe she took her mother's name instead of her father's, as a sign of trying to cut him out of her life like he cut them out), she's the Chief Medical Officer of the SGC, she's got a personal life..... but it doesn't include him. In her mind, he's trying to start up the family feeling when it's already too late: she no longer considers him as her father in any way but biologically.

Yup, that`s exactly how I see her too.


EDIT: I just want to say though that I agree with the people who say she should expect Landry to want to interrogate the prisoner. I think her hangup was that she wants control regarding medical matters. She complained to Lee when Daniel and Vala were linked to that communication thingy because she thought he was proceeding without giving her a chance to make some medical decisions. With the Sodan she doesn`t like Landry getting ready to interrogate without her declaring him fit enough for it. And getting back to the personal issues between them, she`s extra ready to be snarky when he invades "her" territory (medical matters).

[Fargater]

I obviously have too much time on my hands.





Screencap courtesy of ThomasDM. Thank you!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

That`s great!

[Fargater]

I am a lurker here and love reading all of the varied responses to Babylon. I also have to admit my prejudice: I come from Farscape fandom and am not as immersed in the Stargate universe (although I have seen many episodes). I find it fascinating that people are concentrating on comparing Mitchell to O'Neill in terms of Mitchell's competance to lead. I think what Ben Browder and the writers are building is a character of another stripe than O'Neill's cynicism and snark (that I agree is always used as a leadership tool). Someone earlier said that Mitchell is unsure of himself and covers his insecurity and maybe fear by being a wise ass. I like the fact that the man is not perfect and that he is awkward still. Yes, he is supposed to be the Leader of SG-1 and that he was chosen by O'Neill and Landry because he had leadership qualities. I think we are seeing that his qualities are not tactical or strategic (which are more Teal'c and Sam's skills) but people oriented. The man is great with people. He disarms with charm and grace.

Ben is building a layered performance based on his physicality and slightly goofy/gawky persona. And yet, he stood there in front of Haikon like a soldier and did not bend. He does have The Right Stuff and can hold his own. I also think the man is very intelligent and deep. Look at his arguments to the Sodan about freedom and not loosing faith because it is what sustains you when times are hard. Haikon needs to SEE to believe. The other Sodan (based on that brother who ended up at SGC) also seem to be very grounded. Mitchell is a believer in himself and fate as well as a higher power. He sold that well. So he uses his sarcasm to disarm and relax people vs. O'Neill using it to push hard on people.

This was a high quality episode that really gave Ben some physical acting, something he is amazingly good at. The fact that the ep was self-referential is charming to me. Most of Stargate is very boring (sorry guys) because it doesn't deal in deep characterizations (at least in its later years). Everything is usually tied up in an nice ribbon at the end of the ep. This ep left things untied and awkward. Look at Mitchell's face at the end of the ep. It is saying "We're so screwed."

I give this ep an A because it moved me, was exciting, and sexy as all get out.

I agree with 99% of what you said. The other 1% is about most of Stargate being "very boring". I haven`t seen Season 7 yet but for the most part I think Stargate`s characterizations are deep enough. As you might have guessed from my handle, I`m one of those Scapers that got on the Stargate wagon when I heard BB was coming, and belatedly discovered another great show I hadn`t been watching.

Hmm. I gotta watch it again, but I don`t remember thinking Mitchell was thinking 'We`re so screwed" at the end. He just seemed kind of thoughtful and a bit . . . well when he dropped his head when Volnek went off about nothing being changed it seemed like he was thinking Volnek was either hopeless or going to be a tough sell, but I`m sure he has faith that he got somewhere with Jolan(?).

[CeeKay Sheppard]

I thought "Babylon" was pretty good. The character development (and whumping! ) for Mitchell was excellent, though plotwise I could think of nothing but The Last Samurai – kind of a rip-off, but BB was fantastic.

[pittsburghgirl]

I thought "Babylon" was pretty good. The character development (and whumping! ) for Mitchell was excellent, though plotwise I could think of nothing but The Last Samurai – kind of a rip-off, but BB was fantastic.

not having seen the movie The Last Samuri (sp?)-I can't really comment on it-but it was good seeing BB's character get a little action-I was wondering why they brought him on. In all honesty though-I liked this episode-probably the first that I can actually say that for-the others I was pretty neutral on-except for one that bored me to tears for the first 20 minutes. But I wonder how soon they would see the warrior that they started using Tretonin on-unless they sent him with a supply and instructions-he is either going to be back for a follow up or looking for a new symbiote.

[Temporarily_cloned]

To be honest, i don't think she knew Landry was going to be her boss. I know Jack hired her, but did he, during one of his "forgetful" moments that he's prone to have, forget to tell her?

To me, that's believable. He did it to Cam, neglecting to tell him that everybody on SG-1 was shoving off for separate adventures in Avalon Pt. 1!

Exactly. She didn't know that Landry was going to be her boss. It was explained at the beginning of season 9.

[Fargater]

Oh boy. You people have done it to me again. (Made me stay up like all night.) It`s 3 a.m., I have to empty my bladder desperately, but can`t stop reading the comments. Wow, some people really hate this one! Ouch! But I can`t agree with a lot of the nitpicks. Hmm. . .

Okay, the beginning was good. I`m not sure what I thought of Mitchell imitating Teal`c. Every time I`d read someone`s opinion I`d think, "Hmm." But I guess they`ve been together long enough for him to do that. Also, wouldn`t he kid around with other pilots the same way if he were back with them? He probably sees Teal`c like that, or at least is trying to drum up that sort of camaraderie. And Daniel even got into it by saying it "needs more bass", although it seemed a bit strained. But I agree with the person who said he should have shut up when Teal`c said he heard something. Unless he didn`t really think there was anything there. Stupid though. Shut up.

I don`t know how to hold those guns either, but I actually yelled at the screen "Get down!" when he just stood there. Duh. And then I thought well he`s a pilot, they`re used to being in the open with the enemy and having no cover, just maneuvering, so maybe he was reacting more like a pilot than a ground soldier. Lame excuse though because I`d have to assume they all get ground combat training. But that was probably a long time ago and he`s been a pilot mostly. Still instinct should have kicked in and he should hit the dirt.

People keep saying they`re not acting like a team, they should be together. Maybe, but there have been plenty of eps where Jack was alone, like that planet with the meteors that buried the gate and stranded him for like 2 or more months with those people, and even the advanced aging one although there was contact with the others, and, um, well I can`t think of anymore, but it`s happened at least those times. Oh, the one with Maybourne and him with those funky plants. Anyway, I didn`t see a problem with putting Mitchell front and center.

As for comments on lack of retrieval efforts, they showed that one scene of the remote controlled plane (forget what they`re called) flying over the mountains looking for him (and we can assume they sent more than one or many trips), and Landry`s lines served to let us know that rescue efforts were ongoing to the point that the higher ups were getting ready to say enough already for one guy. Or do you folks mean that SG-1 should have been on the planet looking? But they could see there was no trace of Mitchell or the Jaffa, and weren`t they trying to crack the code from that Ancient thingy? So it`s not like they were standing around. They do have to move the action along, and most of it took place with the Sodan and Mitchell. The other scenes let us know that yes they were trying, albeit unsuccessfully, and as someone commented, that oversight committee also had the power to pressure them to stop the search. Sam expressed the appropriate concern that they don`t leave people behind.

As for the mediocre interrogation, well what were they supposed to do? Beat on Volnek? Heh, like that would matter to this elite warrior, loss of Junior notwithstanding. They could see that just talking wasn`t getting them anywhere, especially since he was so enamored with the Ori. So they get that other Jaffa to come and try to tell him about the Ori from personal experience to convince him. Well it didn`t work of course because he disdains them anyway and thinks they`re all weak fools and nonbelievers. But what else were they supposed to try? They weren`t going to break thru his arrogance.

I already commented on the whole Landry/Lam thing in response to someone else, won`t repeat here.

Didn`t see The Last Samurai, so any blatant lifts from that movie were lost on me. But I liked the whole training thing. Ben really throws himself (literally, LOL) into his work, and it shows. Like someone already asked, does anyone know what the Hong Kong Twist is?

Yeah, I think we all knew Jolan(?) was Volnek`s brother. I even thought they were twins, they looked so much alike. What`s wrong with us knowing something Mitchell doesn`t? I didn`t think the writers were trying to hide the brother thing from us anyway.

I thought Mitchell was being very tactful in trying to convince What`s-his-name that the Ori don`t exactly have the Sodan`s best interests at heart. Like someone else said, he could have been executed if he pushed too much, and he could see it was just riling the guy so he backed off. But he jumped on the opportunity to work on Jolan when he found out Jolan wasn`t ready to just blindly follow them either. Even when he "talked too much" in that later training scene, it was all about convincing Jolan not to believe in the Ori. And he said some good stuff to What`s-his-name about not doubting their power but doubting their intentions or whatever he said.

I clean forgot about that Trek ep. Duh me. But I didn`t care. I like the speculations of some here that maybe it was Mitchell`s idea to do the scam because he saw that ep. No problems there. Kind of cool when you think about it. Funny even. "So, Cam, how did you get away?" "Oh, well, you know that old TOS ep? We just did like that." Ben is well known for his pop culture references, so if the "Bones" line was ad libbed I could believe it, but someone said it wasn`t, and that makes sense because the writers used the Trek plot device so writing a reference to it in the dialogue is logical. And funny to me. Wink and nod and all that. Mitchell does make a lot of little comments and references to pop culture/movies/whatever, not sure how many if any are ad libs, and I was worried about seeing too much Crichton in Mitchell, but I`m just going to agree with the person who said it`s likely just Ben`s style. I saw him at a con last year, and the guy is VERY sharp and knowledgeable about a lot of things, especially SF stuff, so maybe they just pop out now and then. Or maybe it`s the writers and they`re not worried about them sounding alike. :shrug: Anyway I liked the Trek similarity.



Okay, not sure I said everything I meant to, but it`s 4:17 a.m. here and I can`t think anymore.


Once again, thank you all for keeping me up all night.

[Temporarily_cloned]

I obviously have too much time on my hands.





Screencap courtesy of ThomasDM. Thank you!

[Fargater]

Well, there are the people who are Browder fans and are just happy to see him in another role, and not necessarily a John Crichton re-tread. That's enough for them. I liked last night's episode but I'm partial to Browder. That being said, I wouldn't watch if I didn't think he was interesting and brought something to the show.

One thing I noticed, though, that I don't think has been mentioned is that Mitchell seems to have an alternative POV to the Ori question, from Daniel's. Daniel's argument is that people need to use a rational approach, using science and technology to improve their status. That's okay.

Mitchell, on the other hand, argues for a faith based approach. You don't need a bag of magic tricks to believe there is a god. I base that assessment on his discussion with the Sodan guy (can't remember his name) when he pointed out that a bag of magic tricks does not a god make, and that on his planet people have believed without seeing proof. That's okay too.

Daniel's approach is more humanistic whereas Mitchell's is more in the way of traditional Judeo-Christian religious values. I'm not saying that this is Mitchell's "purpose" but I, as a person of Judeo-Christian faith, saw Mitchell's take on the Ori as being different from Daniel's. They're both anti-Ori but they give different reasons why. And I liked this side of Mitchell.

Yep, you expressed something I was thinking but didn`t know how to say. Thanks!

I'm not a hard core SG1 fan so I can't speak to the show's history in leadership. I also have little to no interest in military procedure so I can't really address that either. What I liked about Mitchell as a character in last night's show was the way he tried to bridge the differences through dialogue, how he "accepted his fate" so to speak, yet didn't give up when he easily could have. He fought and trained knowing that he might still end up dead. He's perseverant.

Yep, I loved that about him too. Earned Jolan`s respect, and gave him something to think about concerning the Ori.

Does SG1 "need" him? I don't know. As a viewer, do I relate to the character? Yes. He's still the outsider and maybe his ribbing Teal'c, which I didn't think was that intolerable, was his way of trying to fit into a team.

Yeah, I appreciate that notion.

Maybe the problem isn't Mitchell, but the fact that the other characters aren't acting any differently. There's new blood on the team. That's a given, it happens in work places all the time. You get a new boss and maybe someone else on the team was more capable but passed on the job or was passed over. That's a possible opportunity for conflict, even if you like the guy. Or for guilt if something happens to the guy and you don't like him much. So why aren't we seeing more of that?

Perhaps Mitchell's purpose was to shake things up a bit, the way it happens whenever a new dynamic is introduced into an established environment. So how come no one has taken advantage of that?

Hmmm. You raise some good points here.

[Agent Scully]

this episode was terrible, the worst episode of season 9 for me....
well, i think i'll stop watching season 9.. i'm sooo desapointed !

we see "sg1" what ? ten minutes ?

i hate cameron, he brings nothing to the show.. :'( :'( :'( :'(