Avalon, Part 2 (902)

[Lida]

The plot wasn't bad i think, but executed poorly. I was very disapointed in the temple and traps, everytime they failed and all they had to do was try again and they could succeed. Not that hard. I mean for example the pots, there were 2 options, and they succeed because they got it right on the SECOND try.

The whole fight sequence with the knight and Cameron i can let slide that he beat the highly traind knight after a few lessons years and years ago.

I almost started dancing when i saw Vala die, then i almost started crying when i saw her come back to live. Guess you cant have everything.

The Doc and the General i still havent decided on if i like them but they are defintly doing better then goodie two shoes Mr.Mitchell. Im starting not to like his personality and maybe as he starts going on missions (maybe see a few people die) he wont be Mr. Chipper any more.

Oh yea and if they plan on taking Teal'c away from his Jaffa they better have a darn good reason or i will take another step towards not watching the rest of the season 9.

As for your assessment of Avalon, Part 2. It is based purely on your own likes and dislikes of characters, not the actual execution of the storyline.

Was the cave sequence a bit "lame" (you like that word, right?)? Yes, it was. However, as the story continued to play out, it became much more believeable.

The fight sequence? Ever hear of over-compensation? That occurs when someone, who was an over achiever to start with, is sidelined by injury, or some other problem. They then over-compensate for the loss, or perceived loss, but becoming "better", at either their former occupation or hobby or a new one. Just look at Lance Armstrong. So Mitchell beating the knight is entirely believable. Perhaps if you had understood why the tptb included the flashback about his struggle and determination to walk again, after being told, he probably would NEVER walk again, would have allowed you to better understand how he defeated the knight.

General Landry is doing a great job as the commander of the SGC, but it's only been 2 episodes, so I think his "tough" stance will soften a bit. His daughter, no comment.

As for Mitchell being a "goody two shoes"? ROFL Guess some people just never grow up. He is not being "chipper" and he has seen his share of death, including his own close brush with death. Why don't you like BB, because the character of Cameron Mitchell is not who you are attacking, is it? Be honest.
And the same for Claudia Black/Vala......CB is a great actress, and in Avalon, Part 2, added depth to her character. Too bad you are judging 2 very accomplished actors, by previous roles.

[Kalliope]

Being sort of a newbie to SG-1 (I admit not to see seasons 1-6 almost at all, only season 7 and one episode of season 8), I must say that I enjoy watching season 9 very much. Avalon pt. 1 was a lot of fun, Avalon 2 added much more drama and darkness to the picture, great job R.C.C!!! This episode definitely added depth to Claudia Black's character and for the first time we were seeing "real" Vala for a while, vulnerable woman desperately trying not to meet Daniel's eyes so he can't see her tears the moment after she was brought back to life... It's definitely going to change her a little bit, we'll see... Deep bow towards the composer, the music was fantastic in this episode.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

The fight sequence? Ever hear of over-compensation? That occurs when someone, who was an over achiever to start with, is sidelined by injury, or some other problem. They then over-compensate for the loss, or perceived loss, but becoming "better", at either their former occupation or hobby or a new one. Just look at Lance Armstrong. So Mitchell beating the knight is entirely believable. Perhaps if you had understood why the tptb included the flashback about his struggle and determination to walk again, after being told, he probably would NEVER walk again, would have allowed you to better understand how he defeated the knight.

hmmmm.....possibly. Cam states he took fencing in college, which he flunked. Fencing is a FAR cry from broadsword, which is what was used in the fight sequence. Over-compensation possibly, but without any practice since flunking an unrelated class in college???? dunno

my beef with the fight scene is that the technique seemed bad (this is just my unexpert opinion). Noone hires broadsword coaches for fight scenes any more. I just watched it again and they are both stabbing at air and madly blocking parries/thrusts that are't going to hit their mark. One of the basics of any sword fighting (but especially broadsword) is that ya just don't waste your energy doing that. Plus, the footwork was abysmal. From this respect I can see why Cam beat the knight, but found it Pythonesque that the knight who is supposed to be defending something can't fight worth beans (its a flesh wound, I'll bite your knee off, you're a loony, etc. et al. yadda yadda).

Anyway, after the fight scene the ep picked up for me. I have to go back and watch it again before commenting further, but I'm optimistic about Season 9. (yes, corp1, you've brought me over from the Dark Side haha).

I'm with you on Cam, though, Lida, I like him so far and am looking forward to seeing how they develop his character.

[the Fifth Race]

I loved Avalon part II, the whole burning Vala sequence was brutal and hard to watch, but riveting none the less. A very interesting episode, I'm looking forward to part III.

Is Daniel the master of SG now or what!?. The show will remain great as long as he is a part of the show!.

[kryon22]

Everyone's said what I think so far.


I can't stand all this Jaffa storyline - I never could. I like this show for its sci-fi aspect. The political part on Earth is okay when it's directly related to the Stargate Program, but this Jaffa stuff is so freakin' boring... does ANYONE really care about it? I'm tired of their storyline creeping into the show for the past few seasons. I have a distinct feeling that this storyline is something Christopher Judge has REALLY been pushing for and I like CJ and all, but... I just don't feel this Jaffa political crap belongs on a show about EXPLORERS OF OTHER WORLDS.

I'm not always a big fan of the jaffa arc, but there is a very big need for it to be present in this season. Even if it's not going to be as big as the Ancients, it's big because of the way the Goa'uld and jaffa have been so integral in the Milky Way. Having just been deposed as a collective whole, the Goa'uld have followers that have to go somewhere. Not including them in the show where one of your principal members happen to be a jaffa would be a disservice to that arc and that character. Not to mention that Earth is also a fledgling planet that is rising to prominence in the interstellar sense as well. We're bound to bump into jaffa at every turn and corner now. Given that we are still vulnerable in some ways to external planetary offensive, having the jaffa as an ally rather than an enemy is a major theme that needs to be explored. Otherwise a lot of the other episodes might seem out of context with the larger universe that Earth inhabits. You can't just imagine away the budding jaffa nation into oblivion (like the way TPTB did with Jonas) and not have some sense of disjointed dislocation creep into the show. That doesn't mean that it has to dominate every episode, but like with most arcs in stargate, they're interwoven together to be more cohesive (most of the time anyway).

But that's just my take on it...

[DarkQuee1]

Okay, what the heck? Those tests look like they were designed for any reasonably intelligent thirteen year old to be able to solve them. It's good to know that the puzzle that Merlin used to guard his massive treasure trove is the same one that Lisa Simpson had trouble solving that made her doubt her intelligence. The lameness of the puzzles really hurts the episode because it breaks suspension of disbelief.

Someone who posts on a list I'm on wrote that the same puzzle had been given to her 5-year old at his school--and it took him 3 minutes to solve! TPTB have forgotten for a while now how to do complicated and clever, and it doesn't look any better so far in season 9 (as another example: the Mitchell-looks-for-a-new-team bit in ep 1 was basically a repeat of their Get in the Gate promo, and it made the members of what is supposedly an elite base look like idiots). The spoilers don't show the show becoming any more original down the road.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

Is Daniel the master of SG now or what!?. The show will remain great as long as he is a part of the show!.

I like Daniel too - I agree with other posters that it would be helpful if they wouldn't rush him through his lines so much!!!! I really appreciated that in Part 2 they actually let him finish a sentence without being interrupted by Vala.

Go Daniel!

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

This episode definitely added depth to Claudia Black's character and for the first time we were seeing "real" Vala for a while, vulnerable woman desperately trying not to meet Daniel's eyes so he can't see her tears the moment after she was brought back to life... It's definitely going to change her a little bit, we'll see... Deep bow towards the composer, the music was fantastic in this episode.

This was my hopeful take on her also, from the minute she walked thru the Stargate in Pt. 1. Coming back from death has to change her, I think. And as a musician I agree about the music - kudos on the score!!! OT confession: when I play I try to sneak in lines from the Stargate music, so I'm extra excited about the music.

[Lida]

hmmmm.....possibly. Cam states he took fencing in college, which he flunked. Fencing is a FAR cry from broadsword, which is what was used in the fight sequence. Over-compensation possibly, but without any practice since flunking an unrelated class in college???? dunno

my beef with the fight scene is that the technique seemed bad (this is just my unexpert opinion). Noone hires broadsword coaches for fight scenes any more. I just watched it again and they are both stabbing at air and madly blocking parries/thrusts that are't going to hit their mark. One of the basics of any sword fighting (but especially broadsword) is that ya just don't waste your energy doing that. Plus, the footwork was abysmal. From this respect I can see why Cam beat the knight, but found it Pythonesque that the knight who is supposed to be defending something can't fight worth beans (its a flesh wound, I'll bite your knee off, you're a loony, etc. et al. yadda yadda).

Anyway, after the fight scene the ep picked up for me. I have to go back and watch it again before commenting further, but I'm optimistic about Season 9. (yes, corp1, you've brought me over from the Dark Side haha).

I'm with you on Cam, though, Lida, I like him so far and am looking forward to seeing how they develop his character.

Gee, I didn't know they still taught broad sword fighting? Still a call for it?

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Fencing is one thing, but the technique in broad sword fighting was really very simple, kill your opponent, before he slashes or hacks you to bits.

And you've been brought over from the Darkside.....I'm impressed. May the Force stay with you!

[ChillinTheMost]

Still loving this show, still anxious for the next episode!

About the fight scene... Someone smarter than me explained it this way:
The ancients could care less whether you can out-sword fight a knight. It was all about determination and spirit. In the beginning, the HoloKnight is programmed to fight just one notch higher than the person it is fighting. The purpose is to wear down the opponent and bring him/her to the brink of defeat. It is what the opponent does at that point that is important. If they escape to the rings, than they have failed. If they find, within themselves, the courage and resolve to get back up and fight, then they will win. At this point, HoloKnight fights one notch below the opponent, maybe starting at an equal level to see if the opponent's resolve holds, but allowing the true in spirit to eventually win.
It had nothing to do with whether or not you can hold a sword correctly, but whether you will keep fighting.
I thought this was an excellent analysis and I agree wholeheartedly.

Someone said that the sword work and foot work wasn't correct. This is also explained by the theory above. Mitchell didn't know how to fight with a broadsword, so why would he be fighting correctly? And the knight is only programmed to stay one-step ahead, so he isn't going to be showing off any clever moves, since Mitchell didn't know any. Put in this context, it make sense that no experts were called on the set to get the moves right.

[WhatFateAlmondRoca]

Guys, help me. I'm still not over "Vala Flambe"

Its okay, its okay, she lived - how was that?

That scene was quite dramatic! But I sure liked Daniel's response when he thought she was gone - the dynamic of that relationship has got to change after that. Hang on, only - well lots - of hours left till part 3. Its okay, its okay...

[Jace021903]

Regarding the sword fight...

It seems as though the technology was adapted to the person trying to use it--for example, no one else could use the sword but Mitchell because he touched it first.

What if the level of difficulty of the sword fight is based on the individual's abilities--Cameron was pushed to his limit and still able to win, but someone with more ability would have to fight at a higher level of difficulty.

I also agree with the poster who said that the test was not about skill but about not giving up. Cam passed because he didn't give up when he was nearly defeated.



That's my story anyway.

Regarding Vala's body being too hot for Daniel to be able to touch...

Obviously it wasn't or Daniel wouldn't have touched her. If the scary guy could get rid of the fire, I have no problem believing he could get rid of the heat from the fire as well.


Jace

[Bobthespirit]

I actually like the jaffa arc.

I think I'm in the minority in that I've always liked 'subtle political wrangling' episodes.

Like, I really liked Weir's negotiation with the gu'ald in New Order and all the bluff tactics she had to use to prevent the gu'ald from testing their defenses.

I am quite interested to see how this 'Militarized jaffa' arc plays out. But it is a bit strange how Teal'c still works with SG1 after the gu'ald have been defeated. Maybe this jerk who got elected is going to somehow force him to go back to the Tari?

But I still want an explanation as to why Vala died in real life when Sallis burned up. And don't give me that Matrix 'Mind and body connection' crap. They only made that up so it was possible to die at all. I want a real reason.

[akimbo]

First time post, though I've been lurking for about a year.

I had to weigh in a little about the sword fight. I will say that I don't know much about the broadsword, but I do know it's two-handed slashing technique is totally different than the one-handed approach used with the epee or foil traditionally in fencing.

So my first thought is to cut Cam some slack on his footwork or strategy (plus college was a little ways back for the Lt. Col. to just snap back into expert fencing footwork). Actually, you'd probably find Mitchell's outright adeptness the more implausible action.

Anyway, I liked the way that the action was shot. I thought it very good quality, especially on a TV budget. It seemed like it had more flow to it, with longer pieces of action that were not played exclusively in cuts. The fight told a story with Mitchell getting the crap kicked out of him while he just tried to defend and not get sliced up.

As the fight continues, the right-handed Mitchell took a blow to his dominant hand and continued his defense solely with his left hand. That's got to be difficult with a broadsword that is meant to be wielded with two hands. The moves were different, the flow was different and he was obviously still losing.

So the flashback made sense to me in the "fight or flee", "never give up, never surrender" sense. A little "Rockyesque" I'll grant you, but still good character stuff.

The push off from the flashback even matched the flashback in the fight scene.

To me they obviously took great care to do it well.

Just my .02

[TINemo]

In Avalon 1, Vala slaps a bracelet on Daniel and one on herself(any scapers recognize similarities with I Yensch,You Yensch?) that bind them so they collapse if seperated by any distance and kill if one dies. This, then is the rationale for why Vala and Daniel pair off to search for treasure and why they are the ones to test the ancient *communicator* device, So far, so good,

But then Vala(in the body of a woman in a different galaxy) is burned at the stake. Why doesn't Daniel die? Secondly Vala and Daniel, in their own bodies, are in the med lab at Cheyenne. Vala codes as her other galaxy person dies, but Daniel doesn't die there either???? Thirdly, as she dies at the stake, the bracelet opens and falls off(so that's the answer to the first two questions????) but when she is revitalized by the blind night of the Orii, they don't show her picking up or putting back the bracelt. So now what???????

This is sort of an interesting premise(though it's been done before) but it seems to have inconsistencies--or am I missing something?????