Avatar (806)

[Liv]

The moment they mentioned "There are two ways to end it. Win, or activate the internal failsafe." I turned to the person next to me and said 'bet you $50 the internal failsure doesn't work'.

Yep, that was pretty much my reaction, too. Can´t have something like that actually working, there´s no fun in that.

The surprise would have been if it had worked. "Whoops, all over, no need for a rescue after all. Too bad, Daniel. Maybe next time."

[keshou]

Even though there was a lot more Jack than I had anticipated--and I liked that!--it still was noticeable that there were things caused by his reduced schedule. There were at least two scenes where, in seasons 1-6, Jack and most likely Hammond would have been present, while here Jack was not there either as Jack or as the base CO. And though they tried to give us an explanation, there is still no doubt in my mind that in seasons 1-6, Jack would have been the one to go in.

I agree that in seasons 1-6 Jack would have been the one to go in. I'm also not so sure the Avatar script wasn't originally written for Jack to go in this time. Now that I think about it the dialogue, once Daniel enters the game, sounds more like Jack than Daniel. The whole "Buddy" thing - that's something Jack would call Teal'c, sounded odd coming from Daniel. Where Teal'c says "it is not possible" and Daniel replies "yes it is, that's why I'm here". It was a lovely scene between Daniel and Teal'c but I can sure see Jack saying those lines.

I wonder if they rewrote it, threw in the line about Jack not being able to go into the game because of his tactical knowledge, and used Daniel instead. It may not always be easy to fit all the intended scenes into RDA's shooting schedule. I'm looking forward to JM's production notes on this episode.

They are still using Jack to explain things to the audience, and it adversely affects the character.

Yeah the Matrix line was cute but some of the other stuff seemed to be back to dumb Jack.

While I have no problem with Daniel's becoming more field savvy [he should be after all this time], we are seeing too much of a Daniel-Rambo and it undercuts his presumed different perspective. Look at Icon: Daniel did not even suggest trying to talk to Soren or to the people in the bunker; it was just blast away. That makes those times when he suddenly goes "pacifist" look more like plot devices than character. Just MO.)

This is an action show and perhaps they feel they need the Daniel character to be more action-oriented to take up the slack from Jack!lite. I think Daniel's different perspective is still part of his character but I get the feeling he's finally learning that some situations just can't be solved by talking -- especially when you're dealing with fanatics. I can see where you're coming from on this, though.

The set-up. I can understand the people on the Gamekeeper's planet wanting *their* chairs to be controlled only by the user, considering their experiences before (and the fact that, most likely, their "fantasies" would not be violent). However, it makes no sense for the SGC to do that, especially in light of all the things that can go wrong with tech and in light of the nature of the "game" they would be engaging in. They could certainly have insisted that the chair they got had an on/off switch, and they should have. For me, it made everyone involved look very dumb in regard to something about which they should have known better.

Can't disagree with you there. I thought the SGC should have never considered using the chair if they couldn't turn it off from the outside without injuring the user. Very unbelievable. Still it was an enjoyable episode so I just went with the premise. It might have been better if they'd installed an on/off mechanism and for some (hopefully good) reason it didn't work.

[LoneStar1836]

Going into this episode I had my doubts, especially after last week’s “Icon” which was a real snoozer, IMO. “The Gamekeeper” was never really big in my book so doing somewhat of a sequel was taking a chance. When Teal’c first entered the game, and they showed the game animation, I was like I hope this episode does not turn as cheesy as that looked or the premise of the episode seemed to be. After that I gradually got more immersed in the episode, and it really hooked me when they added Daniel to the mix when he entered the game. I’m sorry, but Daniel getting shot the first time (and the second, third, etc.) by Teal’c was almost priceless. And Daniel is borderline on being my favorite character. (I just can’t decide who my favorite is, because I prefer the team.) That must be some kind of theme this season – Daniel getting shot/injured. MS is going to have the acting monopoly on that type of portrayal since that seems to happen a lot to his character. Though I enjoy the way he does it. *slap* (this isn’t the superficial thread). Anyway I just have to say that I was surprised that I really liked this episode. And I liked it even better after the second showing. Not an all time favorite, and not the best episode of the season so far, but it was pretty darn good. The directing was interesting, and the pacing was good, and though the reset sequences seemed repetitious, I didn’t mind them, and I think they were necessary and added to the viewing experience by trying to get you to empathize with the plight of the character. We only lived through a couple of resets, who knows how many Teal’c eventually went through, obviously enough to get him to give up for a couple of cycles, which is a rare character trait for Teal’c.

Should have known they would send Daniel in since he has the less tactical military mind. Oh well, I don’t mind Daniel getting to tote around a gun and show off those muscles. Got a kick out of Chevron man ( a.k.a. Sgt. H blah blah blah. I like Davis better but wha’ch gonna do) and Siler getting killed, and Siler being the bad guy. I thought Jack was the goa’uld there at the end and thought they ought to pop him, but like someone said up the thread, if they’d shot Jack, Carter would have probably shot one of them and thus game reset.

Fitting that the final objective is to have all of SG-1 survive. Notice how everytime Teal'k failed, it proceaded the death of another member of SG-1. So in the end, Teal'k wasn't fighting the Gou'ald, he was preserving his team and defeating the Gou'ald

I agree. I hadn’t really thought of it that way until you stated it. Of course Teal’c would consider a successful mission one in which the whole team makes it out alive. He wouldn’t settle for less. That was possibly the final objective to the game since it supposedly was continually modifying itself based on Teal’c’s underlying mentality.

I have to agree with Jack and cringe at the sight of the doctor jabbing that needle in Teal’c. I didn’t want to see that again either. I hate needles. I missed the “Matrix” quote by Jack and twice for that fact. Will have to go back and watch it again. On that note, I think RDA’s screen time was managed effectively. He added to the scene rather than just be there for the cursory remark. The writers and RDA have greatly improved upon that this season, IMO. Jack wasn’t really there, but I felt that he was, rather than MIA. Yeah, he's still playing "dumb" Jack but not to the extent that it had gotten last season. So I consider it an improvement. MS, AT and the other actors, including those portraying Dr. Lee, Siler, the countless airman fodder, etc., did a great job filling out the episode. I felt that the episode had a good balance of team while seemingly focusing on a single character.

The concept of the episode seemed rather lame to me based upon the commercials for it, but after seeing the episode I guess I can see the reasoning behind why the SGC and the military for that matter would be interested in modifying those Gamekeeper chairs to produce a more realistic (minus the pain thing) VR trainer for combat scenarios. So using this episode as a sort of follow up / stand alone worked out pretty good IMO for a story. Yeah, it had its bugs and plot holes, but I found it entertaining and engaging in that it kept me wondering what the final piece to the puzzle was in order for Teal’c to resolve the scenario. Guess I’ll shut up now because my word count feature on MS Word says this ramble is 780 words.

[greytop]

At first I didn't think I was going to like this eisode but the more I watched it I liked it. What I like about it, is when Daniel first came into the game and Teal's shot his a couple of times. Then Daniel finally shot hin with a Zat so he could explain that he was a player too and why he was.

[greytop]

I to bad the Gamekeeper wasn't in it. That would have made things interesting.

[Major Fischer]

Actually, the military does frequently use computer games for training in tactics. I suppose the terms "simulator" and "simulations" are also used but they are games after all. And what are live-action training exercises called? War games.

I have nearly seen people SLAPPED for calling a simular a game. *shrug*
Sort of like calling a rifle a gun or a ship a boat.

But it's a nit pick, and the ultimate truth was that I just didn't like the episode, but others obviously did. That's fine, not everything is going to be everyone's cup of tea.

[Nikkirose]

I dont know if this has been asked before, but if it has I'm sorry ..... Does anyone know when they will repeat this episode?? I totally forgot to watch it. *smacks head*

[DarkQuee1]

I know I'm new and all, but I can't help but point out that that's two more times Daniel's died. I just found that amusing. ^_^;;

Jack's still ahead. <<g>> He died every time.

J.

[epiphany]

>>>>Daniel goes Rambo saves the day! Yay! So, why hasn't he gotten contacts or laser eye surgery to correct his vision? <<<<

Sometimes Daniel/MS does wear contacts. However, laser surgery is not fool proof. It has risks. And it is not permanent. Also, some types of vision problems still can not be corrected. If MS has one of these or is leary of the procedure, he may be unwilling to undergo the proceedure. I know I am unwilling. A friend of mine did and had alot of problems afterwards. He did not get the results promised and the doctor did not screw up based upon several other opinions. RDA did have laser surgery. So you have to be careful.

According to MS at the NJ creation con, Daniel hasnt' had laser surgery because he (said with great emphasis) "isn't a candidate".

There are reasons that people can't have laser surgery, such as having dry eyes, floaters, etc. So it's perfectly plausible for Daniel NOT to have laser surgery to correct his vision.

[epiphany]

This is an action show and perhaps they feel they need the Daniel character to be more action-oriented to take up the slack from Jack!lite. I think Daniel's different perspective is still part of his character but I get the feeling he's finally learning that some situations just can't be solved by talking -- especially when you're dealing with fanatics. I can see where you're coming from on this, though.

I disagree. Daniel had been on that planet in Icon for six weeks previous to the initial attack trying to figure out a way to prevent what happened. By the time it came to six weeks later and the attack on the bunker, all options were quite frankly exhausted. It's not like suddenly Daniel just decides spur of the moment to make it a fight. He knows what the situation was like beforehand(he gave that whole little briefing to Jack, Sam and Teal'c which I thought showed a pretty firm grasp of understanding on the situation), he knew what it was like right up until the time of the first attack, he had Jared's information since then. He's no dope and he generally has pretty good instincts, there isn't anything out of character about what he did.

Daniel's never been a pacifist. The man helped start a rebellion in the film because he knew that was what had to be done. He was also cool as a cucumber when he needed to be(talking with Ra for the first time after waking from the sarcophogus). He put a 36 hour ARMED guard on the Abydos gate when he had it unburied. He never showed any qualms about shooting a gun, he may not have had the training the military members of his team did, but he never had any qualms about using one if it came down to it.

What I liked about Daniel's use in Avatar was quite nicely summed up by someone on another board but as I can't copy her whole post I'll just say it balanced his complexity--he was both "lethal and sweet" at the same time and it seemed completely natural to him. To my mind really that's always been part of Daniel, it's one of the reasons I've always found him fascinating. He's just better able to balance both sides of himself now due to his experience and experiences and I'm glad they are allowing him that kind of growth. He was warm and supportive emotionally and confident and strong physically. That's Daniel as he should be, to me, after 8 years of doing this, 9 years since the first mission to Abydos.

[jayeffaar]

Easily explained. Either Dr. Lee or one of his co-workers who helped him programmed the simulation has a Canadian or British background, hence "armoury " and "armour" rather than "armory" and "armor".

The real world reason of course, now that I've read the episode's guide page, is that the video game is being developed by an australian company. They'll probably catch that goof before the game goes gold.

[thetron]

Just to offically and unoffical clear things up

I manage to email the creator, Ben Lozen from Perception. Into reguards the new stargate game being built in Australia.
Asking if the in-game footage shown in the episode. was pre-rendered or some machinma which is in-game animation using a game engine. Something like RedVsBlue.com
He mentioned

It uses all the same assets as the game in terms of character models, general models etc.
But to get it at the right res, it was prerendered."

[ShadowMaat]

Oh yes. That clears things up perfectly.

Say it again in English, please, Carter.

[Major Fischer]

I think a rough translation is, "was the game footage something taken from an already written game scenerio, or did they creat it seperately for the episode."

And the answer seems to be, "the detail needed for the episode meant that they had to spice it up, but it is based on many of the tools, programs, and models that were developed for the game."

But that's just a guess.

[ShadowMaat]

Thanks kindly.

So like I said, it was basically a giant commercial for the video game.