New Order, Part 2 (802)

[Mio]

Who else thought that Thor seemed more energetic?

[Scarym1]

Oh, I dunno about that. I think Fifth might discover that Repli-Sam is just as impossible to control as the real thing. Just because he created her to love him doesn't mean she will...

Now that sounds like a really cool idea!!!!

[keshou]

is it jsut me or do daniel and weir have a wee bit of chemistry going on?
not at the beginning, at the beginning he was rather rude and condescending, but once they started negotiating, they really got that 'silent communicaiton' thing going

I probably saw more personal UST chemistry between Daniel and the Jessica Steen version of Weir than I did with the Torri version of Weir. I enjoyed Daniel's interaction with Weir in New Order -- especially some of the looks Daniel was giving her as Weir demanded Ba'al's territory -- but I didn't see anything really shippy. Which is good for Weir, cause if Daniel liked her she probably would have been snaked before she could leave for Atlantis.

[morjana]

The clips shown during Fifth's torture of Sam.

The two segments had different clips.

Note: It seemed to me that overlaying all the clips in the torture scene was an impression of fire, or flames.


FIRST TORTURE SCENE

Face of Chaka -- the original one from "First Ones"
A human eyeball -- probably Sam's
Face of Chaka again
What looked to me like Jack's face...at a skewed angle, from just below the eyebrow area down
The scene from "Fire and Water" of Daniel burning in fire
A scene of human skulls -- counted at least five
An interior view (looking outside) of the ruins of what looked like a church
A clip of Sam crying from the first remembered memory in "Jolinar's Memories" aboard the cargo ship



SECOND TORTURE SCENE

Jack's face -- same distorted view
The human eyeball
This is a hard to describe -- a multi-barked spike (black) with what looked black tendrils coming off of it -- can't think of anything we've ever seen like this on the show -- or what it could represent
A HONKIN' big spider -- probably a tarantula
A clip of Sam from "The Devil You Know" when the Blood of Sokar was being forced down her mouth
That HONKIN' big spider again
Oh, now this was interesting -- from "Abyss" -- Jack on Ba'al's gravity torture screen -- towards the end of the episode, when he's all done in
Clip of those human skulls again
Hmmm...a clip of what looked like another tendril, white, looked like a piece of ganglia
That clip of Sam from "The Devil You Know" again, only this time enlarged
From "Serpent's Venom," Teal'c being tortured with the pain stick
And the last clip -- also interesting -- of a window -- a sashed window -- night time outside the window -- possibly from sixth season's "Nightwalkers?"


Morjana

[Shipperahoy]

Cool. Thanks Morjana. I find that really interesting. I do wonder how Fifth could access events that Sam wasn't even there for. Like Jack being tortured by Ba'al and Teal'c getting tortured with that pain stick. I'm glad that you took the time to write it out because I didn't catch any of the Stargate scenes.

[Skydiver]

it looks to me like they 'chose' things that haunt her

the bug part is interesting, i've always wondered if sam has bug issues. every single time they've fought the reps, sam has stayed behind

the boys being tortured, it must be her concern for her friends

and i think a bit of her dealing (or not dealing) with all the people she's killed

[Ancient]

the boys being tortured, it must be her concern for her friends

and i think a bit of her dealing (or not dealing) with all the people she's killed

I like that explanation , because they are so close as a family and alot of officers in the armed forces have trouble dealing with that aspect of their actions meaning the people they killed, that is very observant, I thought originally that it could be all the lovers or people she felt strongly for/cared for etc... taht had dided like narim, orlin, jonas, martouf, sam has had alot of death in her life between her line of work and her mom and her male counterparts very sad

[Jo Raumo]

I'm posting my thoughts before reading the rest of the thread.

Thoughts on A New Order:

My first thoughts on this year’s opening is that it was the weakest of all the season openers we’ve seen. It was mostly filler and setup for next week’s Atlantis. While there were many interesting plot developments they seemed to be presented in such a way as to kill any suspense or tension in the actual episode being told. It seems that there is something about telling a concise and compelling story that is also part of a larger arc that the writers of Stargate still don’t quite understand.

As an example, there was a short scene towards the middle of the second hour where the Celtic Goa’uld asks Dr. Weir for asylum. It would have made a terrific teaser for an episode where Celtic Go’ould’s actions actually had some influence on the plot of the story being told. As it was, the scene served no purpose in this story and the impact of Celtic Goa’uld’s actions is blunted in whatever story they eventually write to pick up this plot thread.

The first half cut between the A story, Sam and Teal’c going to the replicator system to contact the Asgard for help with reviving O’Neill, and the B story, Daniel and Dr. Weir negotiating with the System Lords in the aftermath of Anubis’ destruction. The intercutting between the two stories was particularly frenetic and served no purpose other than to disguise the fact that nothing of much substance was going on in either plotline.

The second half concentrated on the revival of O’Neill by Thor, Sam’s hallucination of the simple life induced by Fifth and the rescue of the Asgard world from a replicator infestation. The pace picked up appreciable though the solutions were pretty simplistic and cursory. I didn’t mind so much for the revival of O’Neill, there was precious little drama in that plot point anyway. I doubt there was a viewer out there that really felt Jack was in any danger. The two second design and build of the anti-replicator ray gun gave me more of a problem and it seriously defused Fifth’s menace as a bad guy. I hope Fifth doesn’t miraculously show up with an anti-replicator ray gun shield the next time we see him.

I liked Sam’s sub-plot with Fifth. I’m no fan of Stalker Pete but if we have to have him back this was an entertaining and inoffensive way to do it. I’m also really intrigued with the idea of Replicator-Sam and Fifth being an ongoing enemy for our team.

I thought Dr. Weir came across as very sympathetic and I’m looking forward to Atlantis’ premier next week. The visual effects were spectacular especially Fifth's ship lifting off the planet. There were quite a few interesting ideas presented but the actual story was slow, fragmented and lacking in drama. Here’s hoping that the writing staff tightens up their story telling style.

Jo Raumo

Best Line from New Order:

Don’t... every joke, every pun ... done to death... seriously. – Daniel to Dr. Weir on Yu

[shelsfc]

I do wonder how Fifth could access events that Sam wasn't even there for. Like Jack being tortured by Ba'al and Teal'c getting tortured with that pain stick.

I haven't seen the episode, but I have an idea about this - the other human-replicators would have had access to those memories in Unnatural Selection. Fifth said at one point that the others were merging with thier replicator brethern, or something along those lines. Assuming Fifth did this also, those memories could have been passed along to him.

[ShadowMaat]

I haven't seen the episode, but I have an idea about this - the other human-replicators would have had access to those memories in Unnatural Selection. Fifth said at one point that the others were merging with thier replicator brethern, or something along those lines. Assuming Fifth did this also, those memories could have been passed along to him.

There's that, which I think is important to remember. There's also the fact that even though she didn't WITNESS them, she's probably IMAGINED them, so that could be a factor, too.

[bcmilco]

First, all general offices have their rank (stars) centered on their lapels, not on the end like the lower ranks.

I thought it looked funny.

And lastly, what's with the "repeat after me.." ceremony right after Jack pins on silver oak leaves on Sam? No one ever does that after a promotion. Its a totally different ceremony that one goes through when one enters a new office of responsibility, NOT rank.

A new office, like becoming the leader of SG-1? It wasn't made clear, but that would be my guess.

[AgentX]

After just finishing watch the premiere after 20+ hours of agony, I have to say that I am thrilled. I really enjoyed this episode, and didn't really notice Jack's absence.

I liked all the Dr. Weir and Daniel interaction, lots of good lines with my favourite being:
"and then...Game OVER....too dramatic?"

I liked the three Goa'uld delegates, most of all Ameratsu I hope we see more of her, and I least liked Camalus - he was just boring as all heck, I'm not sure I like the idea of Ba'al has the main enemy from the Goa'uld side, he was rather uninspiring in the past.

Teal'C and Sam interaction is something we should see more of. Teal'C is a character that I would like to hear him more from this season. That replicator ship looked like something out of Babylon 5 or Voyager's Year of Hell time ship, but was different enough to be interesting. Jack inside the Daniel Jackson's computer was great. "Testing...Testing" that looked like one weird weapon he constructed, but the end result was cool. I wanted to see more reaction from Daniel after learning he has a ship named after him.

The ending with the speeches and the promotions, yeah that was boring but it had to be done and after a great episode I can't hold those minutes against them...but there are things that I didn't like about "New Order" two of them actually.

The first being FarmerSam. It just wasn't believable and I think another way could have been found to show that Fifth loved Sam. Speaking of Fifth, I don't think I can hate him enough to really care about anything he does. He doesn't inspire any kind of feeling, and for me that isn't good in an antogonist.
The second item I didn't like was T2Replicators. Hey it was cool the first time in Judgement Day, but after seeing them get cleaned up a couple times it gets old.

In conclusion a very, very solid start to the season. I would put it right up there with The Serpent's Lair and Small Victories as far as premiere's go.

[Stargate Agent]

I thought this was a great premiere, really got me excited about the season.

And how about Torri Higginson?? Damn can't wait to see her beautiful face in Atlantis. She actually made a good civilian leader.

The new Ancient weapon Jack designed was cool looking and finally the Asgard can battle the Replicators on their own now without asking earth to use our primitive weapons.

Having an Asgard ship named the "Daniel Jackson" was funny. It shows the Asgard really hold the humans in high regard.

I agree with AgentX that the Weir and Daniel interaction was good, probably because they are both technially civilians and both "Dr."



For as premieres of shows go this one was one of the best I have seen.

[Lil Naitch]

Now that the Asgaurd have an edge against the Replicators, maybe they can lend a hand against Baal. Also, how about they help us perfect the hyperdrive and sheils/weapons systems on the X-302/ X-303?

[Nolamom]

I know that Fluffy was in a sweat trying to help out his pal...