Unending (1020)

[suse]

This has been answered here before. He stayed old because he stayed outside the field, but there is no original young one to add to the mix -

We didn't end up with two Sams, two Camerons, etc. (i.e. a new young one that used to be old and an original young one), did we? We just ended up with the young ones who used to be old. And with Teal'c, we end up with one as well - only he's still old.

I still don't get it. Why is there no original young one to add to the mix? He was there back in time. Which they reversed. If that's the case Landry wouldn't be there. as he was no longer alive to *make* a younger Landry. Unless they kept him in stasis. For over 20 years. Gross.

suse

[suse]

Well, I think that trusting someone professionally and liking them or being attracted to them are very different things.

Oh, I agree - up to a point. But if he can't tell one way how can he tell the other?

suse

[PG15]

From her actions, of course. They've all seen through the last year that she is dedicated to being part of SG1. However, that doesn't mean her personal, romantic feelings were well-understood, since that almost never surfaced in anyway that Danny liked.

I guess she kept her personal and professional lives/feelings separate.

[suse]

From her actions, of course. They've all seen through the last year that she is dedicated to being part of SG1. However, that doesn't mean her personal, romantic feelings were well-understood, since that almost never surfaced in anyway that Danny liked.

I guess she kept her personal and professional lives/feelings separate.

She is a *con-artist*. She gains people's confidence and then runs off with the spoils/sells them to the highest bidder. Prometheus Unbound. The bracelet insident that went on for *5* eps. Sometimes the confidence game can take a bit of time. In the grand scheme of things she's not been with them that long. About as long as she was in the Ori galaxy. Doing who knows what. She's only told them she was an unwilling vessel. They don't *know*. She could easily be trying to gain their confidence. It's been her livelihood for years. She's been somewhat successful too, as she has useful contacts who don't blow her off.

On topic: The only people who's voices changed with age that I heard were Beau, Amanda and Michael. I'm actually pretty surprised Claudia's didn't.

suse

[PG15]

Yeah, I'm not even going to touch that; it seems to be a part of a much bigger argument that I've been avoiding since Season 10 started.

[scarimor]

Yet they let her on the team??!!?? If they know she's so good at hiding her true feelings, what's to say she isn't scamming them? Yes, I know she's not written that way, but the characters don't know that!

I don't buy that they can trust her professionally but not personally. She is, as you say, a con-artist.

Exactly. Can't have it both ways. Either Vala is suitable to be trusted with a place as sensitive as the SGC, as important as SG-1, and freedom of movement on earth, because she has proved herself to be honest and open with them now... in which case Daniel is indeed as clueless and much changed for the worse as he appears.

Or she is not, which makes her inclusion farcical. Viewers' opinions on Vala go both ways with good reason (I see her as worthy at this point - it's just too ridiculous to me for her not to be by now), and the change in Daniel is not new.

Vala's "personal life" always was a major part of her operation as a con-artist. She used seduction etc. as a ploy for one thing or another. If Daniel still has good reason to think she's doing that in Unending, then she can't be trusted.

But he doesn't have good reason. He's clueless, and his callousness and indifference is just more blatant in this episode than it has been before. Given that his connection to other people's sensibilities was such a significant part of his character in the early years, and so important to the team, I wonder what the point of him is now His behaviour in Unending was just another milestone in his decline imo.

ETA: It would be something bold, though, if as suse's observations show, Vala did turn out to have been running the Long Con. Wow. And duping Daniel into falling for her - undermining his suspicions and getting the better of him - was just one part of that. I doubt they'll ever go there, but it would certainly be dramatic.

[scarimor]

I still don't get it. Why is there no original young one to add to the mix? He was there back in time. Which they reversed. If that's the case Landry wouldn't be there. as he was no longer alive to *make* a younger Landry. Unless they kept him in stasis. For over 20 years. Gross.

suse

The difference is this: they didn't go 'back in time'. Sam 'reversed time within the field'.

Everything within the field apart from Teal'c in his bubble goes backwards, step by step. So Landry 'un-dies' and then 'un-ages' like the rest of them.

But Teal'c stays the same.

[cjp240573]

this is just crap
asgards are dead

wounder if they were asended by their so called allies

Didnt they take the technology side of things over the learning how to ascend many millenia ago? I dont know if they know how to.

Cliff

[ShardsofGlass]

I thought Mitchell's voice was markedly different when he was old. Plus, he moved like an old man, including the way he waved his hands after he learned Sam had solved the time problem.

[scarimor]

I thought Mitchell's voice was markedly different when he was old. Plus, he moved like an old man, including the way he waved his hands after he learned Sam had solved the time problem.

And the fact that the young Cam is so physical (we see him running off steam, staying fit [legs! legs!], and trashing his room when he's frustrated) made that contrast stronger.

[Mesenet]

But it looked like "Danny" exploded. It was so different. I was like what the heck happened to Daniel? But it was all a test, a very mean test, if I do say so myself.

I haven't read through this whole thread so I don't know if anyone tossed this thought out:

Daniel's rant, though out of character and ott, may have also been tptb/writer's poke at the fans who are adamant that Daniel should not be romantically paired with Vala. I have to admit it - my tirades, when the S9 and 10 scenes between them leaned that way, sounded similiar.

I have to say kudos to RCC for giving something to both sides of the debate in the final ep.

[General David Niemi]

I haven't read through this whole thread so I don't know if anyone tossed this thought out:

Daniel's rant, though out of character and ott, may have also been tptb/writer's poke at the fans who are adamant that Daniel should not be romantically paired with Vala. I have to admit it - my tirades, when the S9 and 10 scenes between them leaned that way, sounded similiar.

I have to say kudos to RCC for giving something to both sides of the debate in the final ep.

That works too

[SGalisa]

Did any one notice that Daniel looked suspisciously like Machello in this ep?

this is just a guess, but I think that was deliberate.

Ya eh? Weird. WAIT! Maybe Machello is an old Daniel that went back in time!
(I just made that up and it sounds pretty stupid)
But ya, so weird!

But hey, wrinkle makeup is weird to make. Makes you look like an old alien (sorta)

I hope you guys realize that Machello was played by Michael Shanks in that episode.

I think TPTB might have (indirectly??) possibly been doing a *tribute* to their own creative make-up (facial disguise work) when Michael Shanks did (portray) Machello in the earlier SG-1 seasons. ..that was just an additional thought that entered my mind, while watching the finale ep..

[PG15]

Aww geez, what the hell.

I'll just address one detail of the Vala/Danny thing. I find it very strange that you guys can't seem to understand that she has kept her professional and personal lives/feelings separate.

For example, let's say I work for some company; well, I'd obviously try my best to get my work done. Now, imagine there is a coworker that I was attracted to, but I'm too nervous to do anything about it. The fact that I would act completely different around her than what I really feel has nothing to do with my dedication to the company, am I right?

In the same vein, Vala has seemingly changed her ways with regards to her loyalty to people, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't still have a type of personality that makes it difficult to express her true feelings towards Danny, and that she's so good at hiding her DEEP personal feelings, that he just didn't notice.

Vala isn't being dishonest with the SGC, she's being "dishonest" with Daniel, and it's a very personal issue.

I don't think I can explain it any more clearer. I mean, just because your friend is loyal to you, doesn't mean you know how he/she feels deep down inside about certain things.

[suse]

The difference is this: they didn't go 'back in time'. Sam 'reversed time within the field'.

Everything within the field apart from Teal'c in his bubble goes backwards, step by step. So Landry 'un-dies' and then 'un-ages' like the rest of them.

But Teal'c stays the same.

Don't buy it. But then I don't buy any of S9 and most of S10 so that's nothing new

They went back in time within the field. Hence time travel. Just because the older version of Teal'c was protected from the memory loss (and de-aging) by *another* bubble doesn't mean there shouldn't be a younger version in what is their past. <shrug>

suse