Bad Guys (1016)

[immhotep]

I really liked this episode, it reminded me of the good old days when SG1 would go through the gate and get stuck and have to fool about in an alien culture to escape, it was very funny and enjoyable.
I loved the scenes with the hostages, "theres a whole hostage/hostage taking etiquite" line was great and daniel was surpurb. Vala wasnt the overbearing self she can be which was refreshing and used her skills well. She has become the logical thinker of the team, right form the start she was making the points about how to best go about these situations.
One thing that bugged me, when the hell did SG1 have a standard protocol not to interfere with cultures that "arent ready for revelation" they have told dozens of worlds about stargate, it must be a very recent protocol because they have never done that before. Probley since they exacerbated a world war last time they appeared in the museam piece.
But yeah i think this was solid piece of Sg1, it wasnt overly filler and references to old technology like the Naquadah bomb made it a good episode.

[IWKYZerocool]

The episode was interesting but now the people on that planet have buried the stargate, how are we going to get the weapons that they were looking for.

I like episodes like this, best part was when vala was telling the guard and mitchell how to get in a glass enclosure.

[cshawzye]

Wow, lots of very different opinions on the episode. Very interesting takes. Personally I loved the episode. It was a break, it was light and very funny. IMO, you can't always have serious hard-core stories you have to lighten it up a bit and I think this episode did that very well. It definitely made me laugh out loud several times.

Loved Vala here. And I'm glad they're working on her relationship with Cam a bit. I'm a Dan/Vala shipper but I like seeing her interact and grow in her relationships with the others.

Also, as much as I like AT I was kinda glad she wasn't in this one. IMO, it was nice to get to see the team trying to function without Sam's technical expertise. And I think that was brought out when Daniel said "Yeah 100% chance we should've brought someone who knows what they're doing." My guess is that Sam would've been able to rig something to get the gate working a lot faster and more efficiently than Vala did ... So although I'm sure AT would've been great in the episode it was nice for a bit of a change up.

Great scene of Daniel yelling at the two women fighting. Anyone feel that he was channeling Jack though?

LOL ... I loved that bit, Daniel was so exasperated. And I totally wouldn't have thought about it that way but now that you say it I can definitely see the way Daniel was in this episode from that perspective.

[Pitry]

I thought the story idea was good, so kudos to Ben Browder. Now this storyline could probably be made much darker and had this been an early SG-1 episode (season 1-3) then it probably would've been darker and more allegorical.

See, I have to say I'm not sure you're right - that description fits nicely to Road not Taken. Maybe they thought that two dar allegorical episodes so closely together would be too muich> Even in seasons 1-3 they didn't used to have this, but once in a while.

ETA: oh, scratch the two. Line in the Sand wasn't very shiney and hit us on the head with the allegorical hammer more often than not. Hell, coming to think of it, the entire plot for season 9-10 is darker and more allegorical than anything Stargate's ever done.

[langdonboom]

What has happened to SG-1 this year? Any episode that doesn't deal with the Ori inevitably turns into a camp piece of crap. Remember the days when SG-1 was good serious drama with a hint of comedy? Oh those were the days.

I really think the writers have decided that the original concept has run its course, and without RDA to anchor the real-seeming danger/peril/stakes in the show, that they are now 'playing with house money' and are able to entertain themselves and make post-modern, post-Stargate Stargate. Its as if they ran out of narrative steam with the first 8 seasons and now they're just kinda vamping on a theme. As much as I like to play make-believe and se the Ori as imposing as the Goa'uld once seemed, it just isn't there, and so I take these episodes for what they are -- light hearted Sci-fi camp.

Agreed, its not as good as the original tone of the show, but it is still the characters I knew and loved, albeiet with a new twist on them, so its not all bad. Even funny if you aren't expecting super perilous sci-fi opera (anymore)

[fellip_nectar]

Just wondering...

Does anyone else think that the reason they could not dial back to the planet at the end of the episode, was because Vala was wrong about the gate depleting the bomb's naquahdah core, and therefore it exploded.

Now that really would be "Worst. First contact. Ever."

[Dutch_Razor]

Ok.....

Worst. First contact. Ever

Although wiith the Goa'Uld might have been worse there wasn't a whole city of people wiped out

But probably not, maybe they could send the Daedalus to check in on em?

[Starxgate]

I got to say though even after 10 years SG-1 found themselves in a situation none of them knew how to handle outside of watching action movies SG-1 was always the one who were the prisoners & now for the first time it changed

[Dutch_Razor]

Hey indeed SG1 have always been the prisoners!

And I don't think "how to take hostages" is a chapter in the USAF handbook

[Starxgate]

Hey indeed SG1 have always been the prisoners!

And I don't think "how to take hostages" is a chapter in the USAF handbook

Daniel said it best

"We don't know how to handle a situation like this"

[golfbooy]

Do you guys hear that? No, no. Shh! Listen......................hear that? Want to know what it is? That high-pitched, wailing moan is all the enthusiasm and renewed faith that Quest II, Line In the Sand, The Road Not Taken, and The Shroud instilled in my easily trounced upon heart being sucked into the vacuous nothing that is Bad Guys. I can think of no stronger indictment of the writers' inability to script 20 decent, quality episodes per season than the last two that have been served up. Both Bounty and Bad Guys were put out there by the writers, knowing full well that they were silly, cliche-ridden scripts that contributed absolutely nothing to the plot, character development, or overall richness of the Stargate universe.

Bad Guys was a missed opportunity. It wasn't a horrible premise, and if that's what Ben Browder contributed, then good for him. It could have made for an ok episode. But Martin Gero failed. Well, he not so much failed as much as he Atlantisized this one. What does that mean, you ask? Well, "Atlantisizing" an episode is my little pet term for how the writers on Atlantis seem to be unable to consistently write any conflict into an episode without lobotomizing the so-called "best and brightest" that Earth has to offer. So long as you can suspend your disbelief enough to buy that highly trained and experienced individuals can be so mind-numbingly stupid, then everything makes sense. If not, well, you know. "Atlantisizing" an episode also quite frequently involves excessively childish sight-gags and inane action sequences featuring "weapons at maximum" and long camera shots of our intrepid heroes running down corridors amidst a hail storm of bullets/ray gun blasts. Martin Gero has supplied all this for the benefit of us reluctant Atlantis viewers in his sole SG-1 offering this year. Thanks, Martin. Happy Valentine's Day to you, too. Couple this cracker of a script with Peter DeLuise's newfound inability to imbue an episode with anything remotely resembling either that "Stargate" feeling or seriousness, and toss in the fact that there seems to be no on-set producer to oversee the most basic quality control, and you've pretty much got yourself a recipe for turning out the same dreck that we saw in much of season nine that cost the show so many viewers.

Honestly, I thought that the first act was good. I like the idea of the team winding up in a museum without a way back. And honestly, of all the people involved in this episode, the set designers should probably get the most credit. I thought the museum set was nicely put together, and the inclusion of so many Goa'uld devices certainly made sense. Heck, this might be the first non-Jaffa society that has acknowledged the influence of the Goa'uld since season eight. For so very long it's been nothing but an undending string of Medieval villages that bear no signs of Goa'uld influence and seem to be quite incapable of advancing past post and lintel architecture. So, yeah, I liked the setting. The fact that the "aliens" seemed to have raided the Earth Weapons Supply Depot makes no sense at all, but whatever. I guess I'm supposed to ignore such petty details.

The episode pretty much goes downhill from there, though. Even if I'm to buy into this premise that SG-1 is going to pretend to be hostage-taking rebels, the writers are asking for far too much anymore when it comes to guest characters. The idiotic portrayal and characterization of the security guard was just painful to watch. And to actually believe that that character could be responsible for providing enough conflict and substance to carry two acts by himself is just patently ridiculous. And as others have mentioned here, what's with the screaming chick? Do the producers really think that's funny? The catfighting women? Come on. For the sake of brevity I'll just say that it was abysmally boring, and that there were absolutely no scenes of substance or meaning in the entire episode.

Believe it or not, Landry annoyed me again. I suppose it's not so much Landry here, though, but the lazy inconsistencies in the writing. In the writer's attempt to once again make Landry seem aloof and superior they flippantly degrade and mischaracterize President Hayes. Normally, I wouldn't give a rat's ass what they said about some faceless President or any number of random generals, but we've met Hayes. He was a big player in the Lost City arc, and he was played very well by William Devane. He's a big part of why those episodes were so good, and he's almost the sole tool used by Wright and Cooper to create the character of Dr. Weir. Ninety percent of her admittedly dwindling credibility came from her interactions with Hayes. And here in Bad Guys Gero unthinkingly marginalizes the character with a meaningless throw-away line designed to give General Landry something to say. It's crap.

Far and away the best part of this episode was Teal'c. He was great in Bad Guys. However, Martin Gero gets to join the list of writers that refuse to attempt to substantially incorporate Teal'c into a story. Chris Judge is capable of so much more than just holding a gun and looking pretty. In particular, he could probably put out an episode way, way better than half the crap we get nowadays. Anyway, I loved the part when Teal'c zatted the minister. He's got incredible delivery when it comes to humor. I hope Talion really gives Teal'c some great stuff; he's been more criminally underused this season than perhaps any other.

I see a lot of complaints about Shanks' acting in Bad Guys and about how Daniel was over-the-top, but I really didn't think he was that bad. Daniel certainly wasn't any more doped up on stupid pills than the rest of the team. I thought Shanks was funny in trying to make Daniel seem agog and annoyed that they were in this situation in the first place. And while I agree with the complaint that he could have handled the whole thing with more seriousness, I feel that way about the entire episode. If anything, I'd say that Bad Guys is a pitiful, over-the-top, and out-of-character episode for the show SG-1; Daniel's behavior in this episode is just symptomatic of the very unStargate-like feel of Bad Guys.

Mitchell was, um, there in this one. I'm not sure where I fall on the "plan" to pose as rebels. I guess it was one way to go, but I feel like SG-1 should have executed it better. Or something like that. I feel like the fact that it all came off so poorly made Cam look out of his depth. SG-1 was never so ineffective a team before. Eh, whatever. I thought Browder did a good job, particularly during the first act with his first contact speech, and as I mentioned above, the pitch for the episode was probably pretty good. However, as much as many probably like seeing Vala and Cameron together like they have been the past couple of weeks, I can't shake the feeling that neither of them seem to know what they're doing. When they both just walked away from Cicero (really, Cicero?) I just had to shake my head.

I hated the whole bomb scene with Vala. The mere idea that Vala would activate a naquadah bomb without being able to disarm it makes no sense. It's a bit of character assasination, and it does nothing but lend credence to the arguments that Vala actually shouldn't be on the team. Likewise, I can't begin to fathom why the writers would want to portray Vala as such an inept thief. Is the comic relief that necessary?

I'm glad Carter avoided this mess.

In the end I suppose it bothers me that this is the best I can expect from the show anymore. A number of folks are pointing out things like "hey, you need lighthearted episodes once in a while," and, "SG-1 has always had filler episodes." In response I'd posit that the overall quality of those "lighthearted" or "filler" episodes of years past stand up there with the best stuff of New Stargate. Previously, filler episodes would be along the lines of Learning Curve or Family or even Proving Ground. Filler episodes used to be about either the characters or the program, not some random offering wherein nothing is accomplished save some bufoonery. Bounty and Bad Guys are so comparatively hollow next to single-shot episodes of years past that I'm astonished. They resemble more the fatuousness of Andromeda than anything akin to a Stargate SG-1 episode. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm relieved they've canned this show. It just doesn't cut it any longer. I hope the movies do.

[flynn1959]

Well if for no other reason than the fact that this epsiode gave my ff button a rest I would have to give it 9/10.

[jenks]

This episode seems to be a bit like marmite.

[Shipperahoy]

Did I miss something? When did Daniel turn in to comedy relief guy? At times I wasn't certain if he was talking or performing a stand-up routine for the poor hostages. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind a bit of levity in my sci-fi and even enjoyed Bounty last week for the most part, but it seems like they're completely trying to reformat the show into a space comedy. I don't think that they have to be all serious all the time (part of what I loved about the show in the first place was the banter between the characters and Jack's irreverent disregard for authority) but it's like we're getting Wormhole X-treme every episode lately.

With the addition of Vala it's like all slapstick all the time. I have actually grown to like the character of Vala this season but I grow incredibly tired of the way that they make her seem like she's halfway (or more) incompetent and the way they have the rest of the team treat her like she's the stupid relative that they have to have tag along. She had a few pearls of wisdom this episode but every time she came up with something good the others looked at her like it was a miracle of parting the Red Sea proportions that she even had an idea, much less a good one. I'm over it. Either she's part of the team or she's not. They need to make up their minds.

[Platschu]

This episode could have been better if they changed the airing order with 10x09 Company of thieves. In this case we could have got a double-episode about Athena's treause and a double episode about the Lucian Alliance:

Flesh and Blood
Morpheus
The Pegasus Project
Insiders
Uninvited
200
Counterstrike
---
Memento Mori
Bad Guys
---
The Quest, Part 1
The Quest, Part 2
The Shroud
Line In the Sand
The Road Not Taken
---
Bounty
Company of Thieves

The episode was a bit weak, because this is the best SG-1 season. The idea was good, the Goa'uld relics were nice references to earlier seasons: naquadah bomb (6x19), abydos walls (6x22), Heru-ur statue (4x14), Goa'ud flag (3x03) etc.