Are you satisfied on how they ended SG-1 ? (Spoilers!!!)

[PG15]

Ya know--I could argue with you for hours on EVERYTHING you just stated but it would be time consuming and pointless--you loved it--I hated it--let;'s agree to disagree.

Done.

That was fun.

PS--I have seen very old people suffer and die--yes, they fight to the last breath FYI. It's human nature to fight--not give up and euthanasias yourself.

Hmm...interesting. My uncle has told me on more than one occasion that he wants a bullet in his head the moment he becomes senile or suffers any kind of mental illness (i.e. a stroke). He's about 72 so it's not like that kind of stuff could be far off.

The Asgard were fighting for their race to survive--thus they would have the same basic instinct.

I'd say they fought against the replicators to make sure they don't spread, and fought against their disease for thousands of years to the point where they really had no where to go. IMHO no one can keep fighting forever; at some point it just becomes an exercise in futility. I think the Asgard realizes this.

[g.o.d]

no, I wasn´t satisfied. The Unending was incredibly boring.

[apolo]

No, but I didn't expect any better.

agree

[Jackie]

Done.

That was fun.




Hmm...interesting. My uncle has told me on more than one occasion that he wants a bullet in his head the moment he becomes senile or suffers any kind of mental illness (i.e. a stroke). He's about 72 so it's not like that kind of stuff could be far off.



I'd say they fought against the replicators to make sure they don't spread, and fought against their disease for thousands of years to the point where they really had no where to go. IMHO no one can keep fighting forever; at some point it just becomes an exercise in futility. I think the Asgard realizes this.

Lots people talk like that, I've known a number of them...but when they really do become that sick...suddenly their attitude changes dramatically...even for old people who are over 80.

I have watched people die...both slowly from age or disease and traumatically from accidents...they really do fight to the last possible breath--to the last heartbeat.

It is instinct to fight till you cannot fight no more.

For the human mind--to over come the instinct of survival the person would have to put themselves into a frame of mind where there is no options, there is no emotional states to connect too. When a patient that suffers from severe depression kills themselves there is a number of marked changes the patient will go through.

One of those marked changes is that outside--what we would see--they actually seem to be getting better. They stop talking of suicide, they seem happy, then one day...they are gone.

What happens mentally is the patient sees suicide as the answer to their problems. They really don't see past their own death and how it will effect members of the family and community.

A number of people who tried to commit suicide and failed, reported that they would actually see themselves at their own funeral. They would imagine how everyone would react to their death and would please them to see their relatives in despair. But those people fail to kill themselves because they thought suicide would bring them attention.

Those who succeed, aren't around to report what when their mind before killing themselves. But, from notes left behind or from the means of which they take their life--you can tell they did have enough for thought to address their family.

Notes would usually say something along the lines of "It's not your fault--you did nothing wrong." Means are general more thought out, they actually research the best way to do it.

It's usually bloodless--however I remember one case where the husband did shoot himself--to save his wife the mess he wrapped his head in a towel and placed his head with a pistol in his hand in the dryer and killed himself there.

When I have brought patients to the hospital who tried to kill themseleves, they are usually white, teenage females. They are distraught over a guy. They attempt suicide as a last ditch effort for attention and it's usually with a bottle of over the counter pain reliever. They end up killing their liver and end up on a transplant list.

FYI--a gun is not method of choice because it's--dangerous--according to one young girl I brought in.

[Naonak]

Re: the Asgard

IMO, it wasn't a case of "we're probably going to die", it was "we will die". Thor said that there was nothing more that could be done, so as PG15 said, continuing to fight would have been futile.
They also had the responsibility to not let all their technology fall into the wrong hands. By doing what they did, they could control what happened to it.

(Yes, MGM has such faith in the movie that they won't release it on any other media form...that's a BAD sign guys)

No, it's just realistic. Even as a fan of the show, I know that the movies wouldn't do well if they were given a cinema release.

Personally, I loved Unending.

[the fifth man]

Re: the Asgard

IMO, it wasn't a case of "we're probably going to die", it was "we will die". Thor said that there was nothing more that could be done, so as PG15 said, continuing to fight would have been futile.
They also had the responsibility to not let all their technology fall into the wrong hands. By doing what they did, they could control what happened to it.


No, it's just realistic. Even as a fan of the show, I know that the movies wouldn't do well if they were given a cinema release.

Personally, I loved Unending.

I totally agree with you concerning the Asgard's choice to do what they did. They did have a responsibility to not let their tech fall into the hands of the enemy.

As for the movies being released straight to DVD, it was the right move to make. SG, although loved by many, is in no way as big as some other franchises. It will, in the end, make a whole lot more money selling DVDs than it ever would have in the theaters.

[Daniel Jackson]

The show ended VERY badly. First, skiffy is the PAYING customer and that should have dictated what type of ending the show would need.

SciFi has no creative control over the show, only budgetary control.

Next the team. Just because 5 people are trapped together on a ship for 50 years doesn't make it a team episode. Who was helping Sam solve the problem?

Do Daniel, Vala, Teal'c, Mitchell, or Landry look like they know anything about time dialation fields? Really, Sam had to solve this one on her own.

Who was addressing the mental health issues associated with isolation?

They weren't isolated, they had each other. Why must mental health issues be addressed? Let them figure it out on their own.

We saw Sam alone, Cam having fits and being frustrated. Landry became a gardener and payed chess with Cam. Teal'c was the only person to hold Sam after she saw Landry die. No one else was at Landry's bedside when he died.

I found all of this to be appropriate, given the episode's plot. As for Landry's death scene, do you expect all of SG-1 to visit him each time someone want's to sit at his bed? Sam was visiting him, and he just happened to expire at that time.

We saw the majority of the episode be about Vala and Daniel's 50 year relationship. Nothing else.

Majority? Riiiiiight. The episode was about Sam trying to solve the problem, Mitchell slowly going nuts, Daniel and Vala falling in love, Landry accepting the situation and believing in SG-1, and Teal'c... being Teal'c.

The episode totally destroyed the asgard, not just physically but creditably as well. Mass suicide should NOT have been the answer to their problem. Suicide is NEVER the answer to a problem. In one swift move TPTB sent a message to their young and impressionable viewers that it's better to die then try to fight something you think you cannot win.

You're missing the point, here... mass suicide wasn't the answer. The whole point was that there was no answer. Obviously, if they decided to commit mass suicide, that means they would have otherwise died in a matter of days. How do you know that half the population wasn't dead already? The Asgard felt their civilization had come to an end and felt it was time to let go. What would have been a better ending would have been for SG-1 to visit the Asgard home world, only to discover they're all dead. A holographic Thor then gives them instructions on how to blow up the planet, to keep their technology and knowledge from falling into the wrong hands. Additionally, there might have been a few Asgard who weren't dead yet that could have upgraded the Odyssey.

If that was the attitude with cancer patients then suicide would be the number one killer in the USA. To me--there is very little difference between the Asgard's problem and a patient who was just told they have cancer and a 10 percent chance of living. (I know 12 people who died of cancer--each and everyone fought for their life.)

A better annalogy is to say that a city has become infected with a deadly virus. The city is quarantined, but hope has been lost. People are beyond saving, thousands are dead, and the rest are near-dead. Do you watch them suffer, or do you blow the city to finish off the virus and end the suffering?

Just because a situation seems hopeless doesn't mean it is. There was a number of thing TPTB could have done to "cure" the Asgard including bringing in old allies like the nox.

As I said before, they only would have resorted to mass suicide if they were out of time, meaning Asgard were probably killing over everywhere while the Odyssey was being upgraded. Did you notice that Thor was pale as a ghost?

Next--what kind of ending DOESN"T have Jack O'Neill in it! That's insane! He should have had some sort of appearance for the final--out of respect for the fans and actor--he should have been in it.

Richard Dean-Anderson signed on for five episodes. He filmed two for SG-1 and three for Atlantis. SG-1's cancellation was announced after he had filmed his five episodes. For unknown reasons, they could not sign RDA on for a sixth episode. Is "The Shroud," not a fitting finale for O'Neill? If not, you will see him in Stargate: Continuum, an SG-1 movie coming out in the fall of 2008.

The name of the show is "STARGATE-SG1" where is the stargate?

This is one issue I had with the show. Ships were severely overused in the final two seasons. It felt more like Starship SG-1.

We saw them go through the gate once at the very end of the show. Come on--after 2 years of trekking the show they give us one little walk up the catwalk to the gate at the very end of the show. And then have Cam give that stupid speech about how the gate is only way to travel. It's the center piece of the show. It should be the ONLY or main way of travel. Not just thrown in at the last minute as a shallow gesture.

Agreed.

What was the message I got from the very last episode of SG-1 on skiffy: Suicide is fine if you think you are dying--and it's okay to take out your whole race. You don't actually have to work on a common goal to be a team. You don't even have to work together to be a team. It okay to ignore 8 years of show history in order to remake the show in a different image than what the paying customer wants. It's okay to misrepresent your product (the theme of the show) to sell it to your customer. Coop stating it's a "team episode because they are on ship for 50 years" is false advertising and misrepresentation of the product. Kind of like stating--"this diet pill will make you loose weight no matter how much you eat." Then fail to inform your customer that they could lose weight and eat more food if they ate vegetables, fruit, breads, meats and dairy providing they followed the food pyramid on a loaf of bread. It's okay as a "professional" show runner to push the other actors back for an extended period of time in order to get your own favorite couple to the front and center. Mustn't ever mention former stars again.

I've already commented on the Asgard mass suicide. As for teamwork, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Carter was the only one remotely quallified to solve the problem. If you were trying to fix your computer, would you want a friend who's never used one to help you fix it? The whole point of a team is that each member has their own tallents. Unfortunately, this means that some problems result in one member of the team trying to solve the problem while the rest of the team sits around, trying to figure out what to do next. They didn't ignore eight years of show history in order to launch it in a new direction, there were numerous references to past episodes, characters, and events from those previous eight seasons. As for the show's advertising, that was largely SciFi's department, and SciFi has crappy advertising. You can't blame the show's production team for that. Coop stating that it's a team episode is not a misrepresentation. When he said it's a team episode, he ment that it would focus heavilly on the SG-1 team, and the finale did just that. I think you just missinterpretted. Landry got pushed back, but then... he's a supporting character. I found Mitchell, Carter, and Teal'c to have as much screen time as Daniel and Vala. Maybe you just payed more attention to Daniel/Vala since it annoyed you? As for referencing former stars, why if it's not relavent to what's going on? References just for the sake of references is bad writing.

Finally, where was Jack?

On Earth?

[Jackie]

It's interesting to see so many posters on this thread repeatedly tell me that I am missing the point on the Asgard solution or AKA suicide.

I am wondering how many actually understood my points that I brought up.

My points were:

The writer's deliberate use of having the Asgard commit mass suicide in a "heroic"...I stretch to say heroic...fashion as an act of disregard for not only the impressionable viewers but also the very canon of the show.

First...don't tell me that the viewers are intelligent enough to know it wasn't real. I realize that the majority of viewers can tell that. But, when you are as influential as Stargate you should have some cation to your products.

Mass suicide cults have a long history in the human race. Heaven's Gate anyone? Highly educated people brainwashed into killing themselves because they thought and alien ship was behind the comet.

My point was how the writers chose to just have the Asgard commit suicide and have no repercussions from the action.

What bad thing happened because the Asgard killed themselves?

We got their toys--that was a good thing.

What bad things happened? Earth lost a valuable ally. That was NEVER addressed in the show.

Next, the very canon of the show was thrown out the window in oder for the Asgard to commit suicide. The shows first 8 seasons dealt with the Asgard trying to save their race...not come to an end.

Why...as the show runners...do that?

The Asgard problem was not out of the blue but the solution was. There is absolutely no documented history in all of the human race where a vast number of people committed suicide because they had NO chance of surviving a plague or a disease. Absolutely none. There are cult suicides and even canonicalizing...but nothing in the human history that would come even close to what the writers did in SG-1.

So, how do we know there wasn't another senerio that the writers could have had planned that would have been not only more acceptable to viewers but more responsible as well.

Kids, teenagers and adults are influenced by TV. There is no denying that.

For 8 years the canon of the show was to respect and preserve life. To have purpose to tragedy.

But the last two years that has not been the case. The attitudes of TPTB is reckless. Instead of having an overall agenda in the SGC we have treasure hunt week.

Daniel building Merlin's weapon to wipe out the Ori is genocide and yet...that's okay simply because the Ori is the enemy. No debt, no consequences. I guess i wasn't watching the same show as all of you.

[Naonak]

What bad things happened? Earth lost a valuable ally. That was NEVER addressed in the show.

Well, they were a little busy trying to escape the Ori ships.

Next, the very canon of the show was thrown out the window in oder for the Asgard to commit suicide. The shows first 8 seasons dealt with the Asgard trying to save their race...not come to an end.

You're right, I really don't see your point here. They tried... and failed.

The Asgard problem was not out of the blue but the solution was. There is absolutely no documented history in all of the human race where a vast number of people committed suicide because they had NO chance of surviving a plague or a disease. Absolutely none. There are cult suicides and even canonicalizing...but nothing in the human history that would come even close to what the writers did in SG-1.

'Cos no groups of people had been cloning themselves for thousands of years and left with degrading DNA...

There's never been a situation in which a huge number of people would think they had no chance of survival. Up until a few hundred years ago, people have blamed plagues on God/the gods, and thought that if they repented or something they would be saved.
The Asgard know better. Their very DNA is degrading, and nothing can be done to stop that.

But the last two years that has not been the case. The attitudes of TPTB is reckless. Instead of having an overall agenda in the SGC we have treasure hunt week.

That's exactly what we had in 'Lost City' (and much of season seven), which is a considered by most to be one of the show's greatest episodes.

[the fifth man]

That's exactly what we had in 'Lost City' (and much of season seven), which is a considered by most to be one of the show's greatest episodes.

True!

And in the first 8 seasons of SG-1, the SGC was constantly searching for technology and resources to defend themselves from their enemies. In latter Season 9 and all of Season 10, we knew what we were looking for to defend ourselves.

[PG15]

.

What bad things happened? Earth lost a valuable ally. That was NEVER addressed in the show.

Just to touch on this point: The Asgard has been missing since Camelot, and even then they weren't that much help. The Alliance between us and the Asgard has been fading, to no fault of either party, for years now.

It's an impact to loose an ally, but in terms of actually helping us, we lost them a year ago.

The Asgard problem was not out of the blue but the solution was. There is absolutely no documented history in all of the human race where a vast number of people committed suicide because they had NO chance of surviving a plague or a disease. Absolutely none. There are cult suicides and even canonicalizing...but nothing in the human history that would come even close to what the writers did in SG-1.

There's a simple explanation for that: The Asgard isn't human. I know this is probably beside the point, but in the show their way of thinking is kind of different to ours, and so are their priorities.

[suse]

Am I satisfied with how SG-1 ended? Not really. I thought it was a whimper of an episode with a few mildly interesting moments. Did I expect more? No.

I'd say I'm happy they can do no more to it but we can still "look forward" to the joy that is "The Ark of Truth".

suse

[Jackie]

Since genocide and suicide is a seemingly "okay" theme for our wonderful and ever conscious writers of show to allow earth's hero's and allies to preform with no consequences from the act to be considered...I will move on to what else was wrong with the ep.

Okay:

Over all writing was predictable to the extreme. There was no real surprises after Thor toasted himself. So, the big shocker was laid out at the begining leaving a long, drawn out sub plot to become the main plot.

Second: Lack of canon to the previous 8 years. Why was Landry in command of the vessel? He's supposed to be in the SGC and vessel should have its own commander.

Third: Why were the Ori able to track them? Other than Carter mentioning it was something to do with the asgard upgrades.

Fourth: The running from the Ori mothership, stopping to beam everyone BUT SG-1 and Landry off was the most unispiring, rediculas way to get SG-1 stuck on a ship in the middle of the galaxy that writer could come up with. Lame, lame, lame-O.

Fifth: The Daniel/Vala love story. Really didn't need to spend that much time on them. Of course, the whole aging fifty years in a time bubble was lame as well and they really didn't need to have SG-1 go through that. It did't benefit the plot and was just a device for the love story.

Sixth: The PLOT! It was not very good. It was predictable, boring, dry, no climax, no resolution, no real reason to even half the characters in the story--to be in the story.

Seven: The Asgard's reason to just go crispy instead of fighting to thier deaths in an effort to slow the Ori is bafeling. What became of the asgard ships?

Eight: What became of our other allies?

Nine: Why would the Asgard have us send one ship all the way to thier galaxy instead of ensuring a safe place for the transfer of technology to take place. Example: Download the technology onto one Asgard ship and bring the ship to Earth. Kind of dangerous to bring a ship so close to a planet you intend to blow up. (At least it used to be)

Ten: Who led the Ori to the Asgard home world and what were they thier for? We never got an answer to that question. If the Ori were there to stop us from getting the technology and they would have known they could track the earth ship then why not set a trap for us?

eleven: Since Vala no longer has a connection with the Ori and what little info she could give us she has--then what IS her JOB on SG-1? What is her title? She had nothing to do on the ship there or during thier--stay ina bubble. What does she do that actually helps the team?

Okay guys...educate my little brain.

[PG15]

Since genocide and suicide is a seemingly "okay" theme for our wonderful and ever conscious writers of show to allow earth's hero's and allies to preform with no consequences from the act to be considered...I will move on to what else was wrong with the ep.

Keep in mind that those were only "ok" because of the very non-real-life circumstances. Either way, from what you've typed it seems that, due to our different experiences with this topic, we will never agree.

Third: Why were the Ori able to track them? Other than Carter mentioning it was something to do with the asgard upgrades.

Adria perhaps? Or maybe they just thought it strange that an Earth ship is traveling outside of the galaxy and NOT to Pegasus. Of course, after what happened at Orilla, they locked onto the weird energy signiture and tried their best to track and destroy the Odyssey due to its new found powers.

Fourth: The running from the Ori mothership, stopping to beam everyone BUT SG-1 and Landry off was the most unispiring, rediculas way to get SG-1 stuck on a ship in the middle of the galaxy that writer could come up with. Lame, lame, lame-O.

Well, they had a good reason for it. Namely, they didn't want everyone on the ship...to die.

Fifth: The Daniel/Vala love story. Really didn't need to spend that much time on them. Of course, the whole aging fifty years in a time bubble was lame as well and they really didn't need to have SG-1 go through that. It did't benefit the plot and was just a device for the love story.

Considering what I said earlier that it was one of the overarcing plots of Seasons 9 and 10, yes, they needed to focus on that just like they do with any other of their storyline given enough time. Unending provided the opportunity for this arc to reach its climax, and so they took it.

Eight: What became of our other allies?

What other allies?

Nine: Why would the Asgard have us send one ship all the way to thier galaxy instead of ensuring a safe place for the transfer of technology to take place. Example: Download the technology onto one Asgard ship and bring the ship to Earth. Kind of dangerous to bring a ship so close to a planet you intend to blow up. (At least it used to be)

This one's easy. The MW is crawling with the Ori, while Orilla and the galaxy it was in was not. Of course, that plan turned out to be wrong, but they didn't know that.

Ten: Who led the Ori to the Asgard home world and what were they thier for? We never got an answer to that question. If the Ori were there to stop us from getting the technology and they would have known they could track the earth ship then why not set a trap for us?

They're not fast enough and therefore got there after we did?

eleven: Since Vala no longer has a connection with the Ori and what little info she could give us she has--then what IS her JOB on SG-1? What is her title? She had nothing to do on the ship there or during thier--stay ina bubble. What does she do that actually helps the team?

She is still knowledgable in the ways of a con-artist, which is good for us if we wanted other methods to do things than what we are used to.

Besides, if you're only talking about Unending, then neither Cam nor Teal'c had anything to do either. Sam got the techno stuff and Danny got the Cultural stuff. The rest of them were there because they are SG1.

If you're not talking about Unending...then it doesn't belong in this thread.

[Agent_Dark]

SciFi has no creative control over the show, only budgetary control.

err, yes they do... they are paying for it. The producers regularly receive notes from SciFi regarding issues that need to be addressed on the show. In fact the final episode was meant to be a big cliff-hanger that set up Ark of Truth, but SciFi asked them to change it for an episode for fitting for the end of the show on SciFi. So Dominion became the lead up to Ark of Truth and Unending was written to make it an appropriate end for the show on SciFi.