The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[SG1Fan10023]

The lack of Daniel's name was not intentional by any means, I was just caught up in the typing and it slipped my mind

I understand that not many will be seeing SG1 through my eyes as I cannot see it through theirs. It is the way of the world but I wonder if we as a whole are being too demanding, and very hard to please. Perhaps it is how society is changing with all the technologies and the options we are offered, we are becoming more "discerning/discriminating" consumers. Healthy and good yes but too much of a good thing can turn bad.

In the old days, there were one or two TV channels, I definitely do not want to go back to those days but there should be a nice balance between having no choice or say in what we watch and having too much choice to the point each of us want our own tailored TV show

Maybe what I am hoping for is a little more "flexibility" and "patience" with a hint of "forgiveness", if we all appreciate SG1 and the whole concept of the Stargate universe, while acknowledging the few negatives we saw in the recent seasons, we would still give TPTB a chance to correct their mistakes. We discuss, be fair, not overly critical nor absolutely awe-struck.

PS. You are correct however in drawing that conclusion from my posts Something like, can't we all just get along and watch SG1 and have fun doing it, point at the goofy things and say "shame they made this or that mistake" but hey on average it is still a quality show. Write a letter or a post appreciate the good, point out the bad, and generally be groovy!

[Danner]

Maybe what I am hoping for is a little more "flexibility" and "patience" with a hint of "forgiveness", if we all appreciate SG1 and the whole concept of the Stargate universe, while acknowledging the few negatives we saw in the recent seasons, we would still give TPTB a chance to correct their mistakes. We discuss, be fair, not overly critical nor absolutely awe-struck.

What if the concept of the Stargate universe you fell in love with was trashed in favour of a Stargate universe they wanted to write about? Is it still fair to expect someone to stay with a show which is no longer the show they wanted to see?

Unfortunately the PTB don't see any mistakes. They are all perfectly happy with their often substandard work and expect us to lap it all up in the process. I actually have been very patient with them over the years, waiting for them to get their collective heads out of their collective rumps and it's been a pretty futile wait. Providing they have 'x' number of viewers, they really don't give a toss about those they've left behind, even those who got them to the point of having this show to muck about in, in the first place.

Loyalty works both ways.

I actually do see myself as a reasonably flexible person, but that doesn't mean that I am happy to worship at the altar of their rather sizeable ego's. If the writing had been on par with what initially drew me into their world, if they hadn't taken on the persona of the very enemy of the Stargate universe, demanding with their scripts that we submit to their rule and not have the luxury of an opinion of our own, I would have stayed 100% loyal to the show. As it was, at the end of the day, regardless of the fact that Cameron and Vala seemed like perfectly acceptable characters, the show itself had nothing left to offer me. Not even the presence of Daniel was enough to draw me faithfully to the tv, not if I had something better to do, and that is a far cry from my 'I can't miss an episode' attitude of the early years.

[AGateFan]

i have to disagree, mitchell83.

stargate sg1 survived just fine without these characters for 8 long years. i think it would have continued very well without them. just my opinion.




sally

I agree, in fact, I think it could have lasted longer without them or if they were relegated to the newguy\background status they should have gotten. But the later is assuming the writers would do a better job with the characters if they didnt have to focus on them all the time. Either way I think the concept of the show and the original characters would have been strong enough to continue the show in an enteraining way. Maybe instead of the oreos they could have actually done some adventuring through the gate and then encountered a new\different enemy instead of just regurgatated ancients.

Note the I think implies that this is my opinion so no need to tell me it is my opinion, unless you are really that bored.

[scarimor]

Yep she is the most popular here and especially among the "inner circle" who find it ok to be sarcastic and condescending (perhaps not openly, but in a clever subtle way) to the opposite camp. The little elite club who sit high above all others snickering at the idiots who dare like Vala/Mitchel or enjoy seasons 9 and 10. Do they openly call them idiots? No, but the sarcasm is abundant.

Oooooh, someone's got a tummy-ache and a conspiracy theory! *rubs hands together Mr Burns-style* Ex-cell-ent!

Where do I find the "inner circle"? (ok, I suppose it's inner somewhere, I'm just not sure of the where). Can I join? Please pretty please with a blob of blue jello on top? I'll even pretend to dislike Vala if it will get me in the "elite club" (assuming there's no gruesome forfeit to pay when my subversive treachery is discovered - I'm delicate). Do we get secret handshakes and passwords and all the other kinds of exciting things that inner circles usually have?

Please let there be a really cool wacked out initiation too, cuz I have a fetish for quasi-religious ceremony. Something involving prostration and ritual abasement before images of RepliCarter would be nice.

[Skydiver]

well sally, it's been said that season 9 was either originally not going to happen, or be some kind of spin off show, but since ben and claudia were going to be there, they decided just to continue sg-1 and try and revive it and get some audience back since jack had become less of a character.

cite your source please.

while i can certainly see adding ben to be a necessity (daniel and teal'c simply do not and will never have enough of a presence to carry the show solely on their own. Any pairing of just two of them fits into the same rule. It'd be the same if it was sam/teal'c, sam/daniel) and i do agree that they needed to add someone.

even basically i have no issue with cameron as a character. i have a HUGE issue with his OTT Marty Stu back story and slipshod and careening all over the place in actions. cameron the character was ok and needed. cameron how he was written did literally come off more as felger's VR fantasy than any sort of decent tv show.

vala...as much as some adore her, vala was nothing more than a fill-in. a way to suck in the farscape fans (and do you really think there was no little amount of perferse enjoyment from skiffy at the thought that all those 'you cancelled my show, i'll never watch your network again!!!!!' people coming back in droves, easily tempted and teased with a chance to get their actors back?) and a way for the writers to indulge thier juvenile fantasies with a cheap character that is little more than a talking leather bustier. in s9, she had no depth - beyond her cleavage - and served no real purpose beyond allowing the boys to trot out some of that scintillating dialogue they'd noted in American Pie or Saturday NIght Live.

And in indulging themselves in teh silliness of vala and the self-indulgent fantasies of living the show through cam's eyes, both characters did more harm than good.

they are doing thier best to redeem both of htem this season. But it's too little too late. 20 episodes of crap turned so many folks off that they didn't even give the show another try when s10 premiered.

Again, did cam and vala kill the show??? not by themselves. but there were two bullets in the gun that did. And the writers pulled the trigger

[Farscapefan]

cite your source please.

It's enough to listen to Rob Cooper's episode commentary to Avalon episode or read/listen to Brad Wright's recent GW interview. For them season 9 is really season 1 of the new show. It's unfortunate that Skiffy stopped them from re-naming the show.

[KatG]

Ok I am curious to know who here belongs to the following segment of the fans (all items below must apply, not just one or two):

1) Likes all seasons of Stargate, 1 to 10, not necessarily equally BUT close enough to actually plan on watching them all again on DVD or re-runs. The person can/may have some reservations regarding the way recent writing/directing has been handled, wishes some minor changes here and there, BUT ultimately still watches the show and "enjoys" it.

2) Likes all Stargate characters, Daniel, Hammond, Landry, Jack, Mitchell, Sam, Vala, Teal'c, Jonas etc. with the exception of maybe one or two minor characters (example of a minor character that is not liked perhaps Hathor or Anise).

3) Is sad that SG1 is not going to be renewed.

and

4) Wants SG1 to continue in the form of another season, a new rebranded/renamed series, or movies etc. with the same current cast or with minor adjustments maybe add RDA or something similar, and the same Ori story till its conclusion. After that perhaps go on into other stories/arcs/villians.

-------------

I add my name to the list, all the previous 4 points apply to me.

If all four criteria must apply I have a feeling you're going to have a pretty short list. Very few people here, regardless of their opinion, meet all of those.

I have yet to bring myself to re-watch S9. It just does nothing for me. While I'm enjoying S10 more, I'm not too concerned if I watch it first run or catch it a couple of days later on TIVO. There was a time when you couldn't pry me away from the TV on Friday nights. We even planned vacations around it. Not anymore.

And it honestly has nothing to do with RDA leaving. I was excited about S9. I knew that RDA had wanted to leave for sometime, and I really think they should have let him go sooner (for his sake). I was excited and anxious to see SG-1 with Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and the "new guy/girl". But I expected someone of lower rank than Sam, with all the giddy excitement of a newbie to the Stargate program, who wanted to "learn from the best", maybe a major or a captain or even a leiutinant. Never did I expect a goofball Lt. Colonel, who goes from one extreme to the other depending on his mood. Neither did I expect a brazen in your face sex kitten running amok around the SGC. But that's what I got. And I didn't like it.

I used to be proud to recommend Stargate SG-1 to my friends. I still would recommend Season 1-8, but I'd suggest that they stop there, since that's when imo SG-1 ended.

[smurf]

It's enough to listen to Rob Cooper's episode commentary to Avalon episode or read/listen to Brad Wright's recent GW interview. For them season 9 is really season 1 of the new show. It's unfortunate that Skiffy stopped them from re-naming the show.

No it's not, because iheartvala was citing specifically that season 9 only existed because of BB and CB. I would be interested in the source of this titbit myself.
To the best of my knowledge season 9 of SG-1 exists because Sci Fi didn't want the show renamed.

[Skydiver]

) Likes all seasons of Stargate, 1 to 10,


Nope. sorry. s9 is nothing more than bad fanfic brought to life, complete with marty stu's, cliches and cliches galore

2) Likes all Stargate characters, Daniel, Hammond, Landry, Jack, Mitchell, Sam, Vala, Teal'c, Jonas etc. with the exception of maybe one or two minor characters (example of a minor character that is not liked perhaps Hathor or Anise).

LOL

i actually DARE you to find people on this forum that like ALL the characters. Course, you wll have to quantify 'like'. Is there a certain number of scenes they must love? or are they only allowed to dislike a certain number of aspects or a character?


3) Is sad that SG1 is not going to be renewed.

not sad. sorry. Sad that the show is gone, sad that the folks are out of work. but given that i've been told to bugger off by TPTB since i didn't squee mindlessly over thier every word, i'm not shedding any tears.

4) Wants SG1 to continue in the form of another season, a new rebranded/renamed series, or movies etc. with the same current cast or with minor adjustments maybe add RDA or something similar, and the same Ori story till its conclusion. After that perhaps go on into other stories/arcs/villians.

all depends. are we gonna get farscape redux? with boobs, butts, leather and ships? are we gonna get endless 'homages' to every show known to man? are we gonna get fanfic brought to life, complete with marty/mary sue's and plot holes teh size of texas?

or are we gonna get a smart,f unny, intelligent and quality show?

time will tell and, imho, only a fool promises thier loyalty to an unknown quantity. If it's good, i'll watch, if it ain't, i'll change the channel. I will make a determination after i see what they pull out of thier hats

[Arative]

cite your source please.

vala...as much as some adore her, vala was nothing more than a fill-in. a way to suck in the farscape fans (and do you really think there was no little amount of perferse enjoyment from skiffy at the thought that all those 'you cancelled my show, i'll never watch your network again!!!!!' people coming back in droves, easily tempted and teased with a chance to get their actors back?) and a way for the writers to indulge thier juvenile fantasies with a cheap character that is little more than a talking leather bustier. in s9, she had no depth - beyond her cleavage - and served no real purpose beyond allowing the boys to trot out some of that scintillating dialogue they'd noted in American Pie or Saturday NIght Live.

What is your source that Claudia Black was brought in as nothing more than a fill in for the boys or to suck in the Farscape crowd? I mean other than your own jaded opinion.

[Egraine]

To the best of my knowledge season 9 of SG-1 exists because Sci Fi didn't want the show renamed.

That was my understanding. MGM wanted to rename it StarGate Command or some such and SciFi wasn't having any of it...they were afraid of losing the established fan base.

SG1 would have continued with or without Mitchell or Vala....I'm just happy that it continued WITH them. Both Browder and Black bring a strong acting prescence.

vala...as much as some adore her, vala was nothing more than a fill-in. a way to suck in the farscape fans

ROTFLMAO!! Uh...no! First off, Claudia was brought in because of her talent. It was a one spot guest appearance in Prometheus Unbound. They liked her portrayal of the character so much, they brought her back. Haven't you ever had a friend or a relative that was SO over the top, but was a constant source of amusement? And at times could be quite profound? I've had a few of them in my life. THAT is Vala. She was so diametrically opposed to any other character on SG1....she added some wonderful comedic moments that became lacking with RDA heading off to have a life.

And as regards the bustier-sexy wardrobe issue...ever watched Andromeda? Lexx? The original Trek? Oh...and those tasty G'oauld goddesses weren't exactly in nun's habits.

[Zoser]

I agree, in fact, I think it could have lasted longer without them or if they were relegated to the newguy\background status they should have gotten. But the later is assuming the writers would do a better job with the characters if they didnt have to focus on them all the time. Either way I think the concept of the show and the original characters would have been strong enough to continue the show in an enteraining way. Maybe instead of the oreos they could have actually done some adventuring through the gate and then encountered a new\different enemy instead of just regurgatated ancients.

Note the I think implies that this is my opinion so no need to tell me it is my opinion, unless you are really that bored.

I wholeheartedly agree. It is the Stargate concept that I like!

[BPC]

i have to disagree, mitchell83.

stargate sg1 survived just fine without these characters for 8 long years. i think it would have continued very well without them. just my opinion.




sally

Know what I think - I think there would be a season 11 if it hadn't of been for Mitchell and Vala and the terrible characterization and writing they got. Did they kill it alone - no - they have Mr. Cooper and the other yahoos at Bridge to thank along with Mitchy and Vala and the boring bores of the Ori and the plot holes and the arrogant "my way or the highway" attitudes of Mr. Cooper and friends and they seem to have been shown the highway as thier way didn't go over to well with hundreds of thousands (dare I say a million or so) fans who watched the show in S8.

It still really kind of perturbs me that Mr. Cooper and others insisted on saying that Mitchell and Vala "breathed new life" into this series and how they were oh-so-arrogant about many more seasons and it could go on and on and then BOOM - it became well this has been gravy and it's time yadda, yadda foolishness (their attitudes changed on a dime IMO when they saw the ratings starting to slide in Season 9 and then all of a sudden Mr. "my show is the greatest and I am so gald to have been a major part of that rejuvenation" (remember when the fool said something like that?)- it went from getting 2.3s and 2.4s for quite a number of Season 8 episodes, with a 2.1 average on Season 8, to 1.3s and 1.4.s in Season 10 - where exactly is the new life and this rejuvenation Mr. Coopr seems to have been so willing to take the credit for (ironic that the show is now dead).

I just wonder if we will see the little guy take credit for the downturn of the show, the lack of ratings, the mistakes that are acknowledged apparently in 200 (a show that he claimed had a new lease on life and a rejuvenation and oh-so-many years left). I still don't get how the 1.3s and 1.4s can be seen as rejuvenation and new life for a show that got 2.3s and 2.4s two short seasons ago (and whose ratings had actually grown for 8 years) and then started to slide when this so-called new life was breathed into it. I would love for Mr. Cooper to answer this question. I do not need any posts answering this question - it is rhetorical and for Mr. Cooper not that he would probably ever give a straight answer.

[Shipperahoy]

The thing that I think people are getting too defensive to understand is that we're not blaming the adding of Vala and Cam to the show as the death knell. At least 99% of us aren't. What I'm trying to say is that their advent brought upon us some of the most shoddy writing, in our opinions of course. of the show in quite some time. These new characters were being introduced to the show as regulars and yet their was no development and a lot of Vala's dialogue was so not the Stargate I know. While I'm certainly happy that there are people who love the characters, think that their was nothing wrong with the writing, and who loved every second of Vala's sex kitten act, there are those of us who didn't and think it might have contributed to the end of the show.

However, as has been said MANY times, there are many other things that have contributed to the cancellation. And fcol, I like the Cam and Vala characters this season. The writers have seemed to have corrected the mistakes they made with them last season and have given them depth. And I resent the whole, "If people were saying this about your favorite character you wouldn't be so open-minded". Well not so. Heck, I'VE criticized my favorite character at points in the show. I love Sam but I absolutely, positively, without a doubt HATED what they did with her in season 7. And I was up there at the front criticizing what the writers did with her in Gemini. I still can't watch Gemini again because I think it's the very definition of incompetence.

[Zoser]

That was my understanding. MGM wanted to rename it StarGate Command or some such and SciFi wasn't having any of it...they were afraid of losing the established fan base.

SG1 would have continued with or without Mitchell or Vala....I'm just happy that it continued WITH them. Both Browder and Black bring a strong acting prescence.



ROTFLMAO!! Uh...no! First off, Claudia was brought in because of her talent. It was a one spot guest appearance in Prometheus Unbound. They liked her portrayal of the character so much, they brought her back. Haven't you ever had a friend or a relative that was SO over the top, but was a constant source of amusement? And at times could be quite profound? I've had a few of them in my life. THAT is Vala. She was so diametrically opposed to any other character on SG1....she added some wonderful comedic moments that became lacking with RDA heading off to have a life.

And as regards the bustier-sexy wardrobe issue...ever watched Andromeda? Lexx? The original Trek? Oh...and those tasty G'oauld goddesses weren't exactly in nun's habits.

Someone like that is usually enjoyed infrequently and only in small doses. They become grating very quickly.