The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[Kalaz]

Quite simply, Cam and Vala did not kill off the show, they were merely symptons of a deeper underlying problem which had begun to afflict SG1: poor direction.

The direction of the show from towards the end of Series 7 moved far too much to focus upon the Ancients, Ori, Ascension, the Pegasus galaxy and far too much else. Episodes stopped becoming self contained and required that people had seen the last 15 or so episode to understand what was going on. Moving out into space was another poor decision - Stargate was excellent as a modern day semi-realistic sci fi show, yet poor as a space faring one.

It simply had started to become ridiculous, with ridiculous new technologies, concepts and in my opinion the special effects worsened. Stargate got too mixed up in trying to advance its format and stopped doing what it did best.

It lost the humour and it lost the plot.

For the record this is not an attack on the actors, writers or directors, as as i have acknowledged their prior work was excellent, simply a criticism of recent decisions.

[doylefan22]

By the end of Season 8 my main issue was that SG-1 had got so wrapped up in itself and its own mythology that at times it did become hard to watch. Only really because you couldn't jump in and out of it very easily (which you have to do if like me you're watching it from the DVD releases). You had to remember 3 seasons worth of increasingly convoluted and intricate backstory in order to understand everything. Even now much of season 8 is a blur to me and I know I've got to go back and watch it again. Heck, once the hiatus starts I'm going to try to watch the whole of SG-1 again because there's plenty I've forgotten, especially from 7 & 8.

Knowing Jack had gone I was a little reluctantly to watch 9 and it took me a long time to get round to seeing it (I've still got Crusade and Camelot left to go!). It was Daniel/MS that brought me back since I've always loved that character. I have to say I have been pleasantly surprised. All you really needed to recall going into Season 9 was that the Goa'uld and the replicators had been beaten and the Jaffa were free. I think that house cleaning really helped. It made the show fresher and gave it a clean restart.

Having only seen a little Farscape I didn't know much of BB or CB. I remembered Vala from her previous appearance and was admittedly surprised they were going to bring the character back as I had found her very one dimensional. Thing is, I grew to like Mitchell and Vala after a couple of episodes. I liked the way Mitchell tried to 'get the band back together' and that they didn't make it easy for him. Their likeability has kept me watching the show and will make me watch season 10.

But hey, I'm the girl who adored Daniel and yet still totally accepted Jonas after his first 1/2 hour in season 6 - maybe I'm just easy when it comes to Stargate characters?

[Enemyone]

I truly hate threads like these becasue what it boils down to is fans tha dont really know all the details trying to come up with why something happened. Cam and Vala were brought in the show becasue RDA wanted to leave which left a hole that needed to be filled. The decision was made not to change the title, and in my opinion this is what killed it. Cam and Vala could have been cast with millions of other actors and im willing to bet the outcome would have been the same your always going to have people that wont like the change But it HAD to happen becasue of casting holes. funny part is everyone seems to be picking on Ben and Claudia Im betting becasue of the Farscape connection but they arnt the only new cast members since RDA left. Dont let ignorance prevail.

[david2708]

What killed Gate was the poor writing that began way back in season seven and continued up to its very end.
Blaming Vala and Mitchell is a cop out IMO.

[Krilia]

There are many things, IMHO, that combined to bring down this once great show. The poor introduction of new characters and poor explanations of old characters leaving are two of them, and are indicative of some writing issues. I think that the escalation of technology so far beyond our own to where it can regularly be used to escape life and death situations is another problem - our heroes can't be in too much danger with intergalactic-capable ships and beaming tech out there, can they?

Finishing the fight with the biggest enemy of the series only to introduce another enemy that also claims to be a god was underwhelming.

[suse]

Well, now you won't have to worry about it. Your show is cancelled.

I personally loved Cam and Vala. And doubt very seriously if their characters had anything to do with it. If that were so then there would have been no season 10.

Sybil

Nope, no more worrying.

Of course there'd have been a seaon 19. They were this close to the record for longevity. Though I am rather surprised it wasn't renewed for 13 eps only I bet they were shocked when the ratings tanked that badly. Though they were heading that way the second half of S9. You know, after renewal and pre-production of S10 had started.

I'm glad you enjoy the noobs. At least some people did. But apparently not enough.

Suse

[suse]

What killed Gate was the poor writing that began way back in season seven and continued up to its very end.
Blaming Vala and Mitchell is a cop out IMO.

Oh, I don't think anyone is saying that Mitchell And Vala are the only reason for cancellation. Far from it.

! agree that piss-poor wrinting is the isuue. And those characters as wrutten are a product of it. If they'd have been woven into the show instead of shoehorned/sledgehammered they'd have found a lot more acceptance.

So...copout? No. IMHO, naturally.

Suse

[suse]

I truly hate threads like these becasue what it boils down to is fans tha dont really know all the details trying to come up with why something happened. Cam and Vala were brought in the show becasue RDA wanted to leave which left a hole that needed to be filled. The decision was made not to change the title, and in my opinion this is what killed it. Cam and Vala could have been cast with millions of other actors and im willing to bet the outcome would have been the same your always going to have people that wont like the change But it HAD to happen becasue of casting holes. funny part is everyone seems to be picking on Ben and Claudia Im betting becasue of the Farscape connection but they arnt the only new cast members since RDA left. Dont let ignorance prevail.

Nope, they aren't the only new cast members. I like Landry. But then he hasn't been thrust to the foreground to the detriment of the established characters. And canon.

I don't think the outcome would have been the same at all. Without "names" the writers would have had to find reasonable explanations instead of the contrived farce they usedto get them on the team. Still, it's not BB and CBs fault how they were written in.

Suse

[twiggy]

i blame the cancelation on teal'c's hair... just kidding!

i pretty much agree with everyone who's stated that it's the writing that was the problem, not so much the adding of new characters.

[smurf]

I truly hate threads like these becasue what it boils down to is fans tha dont really know all the details trying to come up with why something happened. Cam and Vala were brought in the show becasue RDA wanted to leave which left a hole that needed to be filled. The decision was made not to change the title, and in my opinion this is what killed it. Cam and Vala could have been cast with millions of other actors and im willing to bet the outcome would have been the same your always going to have people that wont like the change But it HAD to happen becasue of casting holes. funny part is everyone seems to be picking on Ben and Claudia Im betting becasue of the Farscape connection but they arnt the only new cast members since RDA left. Dont let ignorance prevail.

I think this requires repeating because these things always end up rolling this way.

The thread is talking about the characters of Cam and Vala, and not the actors, Ben Browder and Claudia Black.
BB and BeauB were brought in to replace RDA.
Cam, Vala and Landry were brought in to replace Jack O'Neill.
Now I didn't know BB from A. N. Other sci-fi actor, but I do know that if the character of Cameron Mitchell was better and more logically (for the Stargate Universe) written then I would still be mostly enjoying the show as fluffy entertainment. This is because I am quite happy to roll with a show as long as I enjoy the characters, because they helpfully, for me, wallpaper over the cracks of duff writing. (see Supernatural for reference.)

Character, not actor.

[Egraine]

There are many things, IMHO, that combined to bring down this once great show. The poor introduction of new characters and poor explanations of old characters leaving are two of them, and are indicative of some writing issues. I think that the escalation of technology so far beyond our own to where it can regularly be used to escape life and death situations is another problem - our heroes can't be in too much danger with intergalactic-capable ships and beaming tech out there, can they?

Finishing the fight with the biggest enemy of the series only to introduce another enemy that also claims to be a god was underwhelming.

Ditto that. I think Vala was a nice addition and a real contrast to the existing characters...but I also think she was over the top for a lot of viewers. A shame...she gave me some of the best laughs since Ground Hog Day.

I think they had a really hard time defining who Mitchell was....an actor can't tell you who the character is if he doesn't know. So it pretty much leads back to the writing. In all sympathy...if I had to write a show for 10 years and keep it fresh...no way I could to it. A new team of writers might have been a good way to go, but I guess we'll never know.

There was also the issue in changing the time and yanking BSG out of the line up.

Ultimately, it was a financial decision. NBC is tanking in the ratings and the lesser networks (USA and SCiFi Channel) will bear part of the cuts of less revenue from advertising. *shrugs*

I really don't have faith in the SciFi network. They don't cater to the fans....WRESTLING???? *shakes head in bewilderment*

[Descent]

Meh...people can play the blame game all they want, whether its the characters or the writers. In any case, the cost of making the show had just become too much thanks to Sci-Fi wanting to keep SG-1 in the title. I like Cam but im not too crazy about Vala, especially this season.

[Jackie]

What killed Stargate in my opinion is that the writers were writing for a whole new show and placed it under the stargate SG-1 name. They should have ended SG-1 with season 8 and then started new. Using MS, CJ, AT as reasons to watch the new show.

If the approach was differnt, SG-1 would have been SGC or what ever they wanted to call it. They should have marketed it as a new series, a spin off of SG-1 using old cast to attrct old followers and been more upfront about RDA leaving. They also should have gotten the average three years to establish it as a new show along with SGA.

One thing I would have done differntly is how to portay Vala. She started as a thief and a liar. She either had to have been locked up in the brig and faced charges or something would have to be held over her head. They also shopuld have not had the first six episodes of season 9 center on Vala and Daniel. It should have been Daniel and Mitchell who found the Ori.

They also should have given Walter more lines, maybe have Mitchell speak candidly to Walter about what Walter knows about the team and how to get them back.

I also believe Ben B should have been able to adlib his lines a bit more. They needed to have some friction between the team and Ben as to why he deserved SG-1 lead role. Not-"I want to learn from the best." Have him a little more arrogant and then get his butt kicked by the Ori thus realizing he needs the team and why they are so important.

[Farscapefan]

I think this requires repeating because these things always end up rolling this way.

The thread is talking about the characters of Cam and Vala, and not the actors, Ben Browder and Claudia Black.
BB and BeauB were brought in to replace RDA.
Cam, Vala and Landry were brought in to replace Jack O'Neill.
Now I didn't know BB from A. N. Other sci-fi actor, but I do know that if the character of Cameron Mitchell was better and more logically (for the Stargate Universe) written then I would still be mostly enjoying the show as fluffy entertainment. This is because I am quite happy to roll with a show as long as I enjoy the characters, because they helpfully, for me, wallpaper over the cracks of duff writing. (see Supernatural for reference.)

Character, not actor.

Actually it's not entirely true. Vala was introduced much earlier, when RDA was still on the show, so she definitely wasn't meant to replace RDA.

[Cmdr. Perkins]

If the approach was differnt, SG-1 would have been SGC or what ever they wanted to call it. They should have marketed it as a new series, a spin off of SG-1 using old cast to attrct old followers and been more upfront about RDA leaving. They also should have gotten the average three years to establish it as a new show along with SGA.

...and here i come again with my "Baywatch-Syndrom" Rename Baywatch into Baywatch: Hawai dint help the show, why should it be working with SG-1?

But its true, it was actualy a new Show, with an old name and a deeply missed RDA...