The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[jeb]

Hehe, i thought i'd put a disclaimer still.

To go back to the subject, both characters are quite enjoyable in last episode.

[DEM]

archetype

1. An original model or type after which other similar things are patterned; a prototype: "'Frankenstein' . . . 'Dracula' . . . 'Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde' . . . the archetypes that have influenced all subsequent horror stories" (New York Times).
2. An ideal example of a type; quintessence: an archetype of the successful entrepreneur.
3. In Jungian psychology, an inherited pattern of thought or symbolic imagery derived from the past collective experience and present in the individual unconscious.

stereotype

1. A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.
2. One that is regarded as embodying or conforming to a set image or type.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 4th Ed. © 2004

[majorsal]

Given how much crap I've seen shoveled at Sam since the time I joined this board back in ...December 04, which is right around season 9 time, I sort of doubt it. Before they really knew Vala so they could beat up on her, it seemed to me there was a surprisingly large number of people who were complaining more about Sam and her character--the Pete stuff, the fact that she had feelings and wanted to show them, the fact that the character had developed in such a way that she actually did "schmoopy" things...

I say it was a surprisingly large number of people complaining because I really hadn't expected that level of vitriol, especially because some of it was leveled at AT herself. I had always thought Sam seemed like a nice character, if not a tad on the vanilla side, and that she was a well liked character.

What's ironic is that AT seemed to like playing that aspect of the character. In the few interviews I've seen, she wanted Sam more feminine and not just a guy in a girl's body.

My point is, I'm sure people would have found something to ***** about there too. I doubt any new viewers would have come in because there was nothing new to see; it's likely that older viewers would have tapered off because they'd pretty much seen it all after 8 years.

Frankly, I think TPTB were right to introduce a new leader. I'm not sure I would have given him the connecting backstory to Sg1, though--that really set him up as a hero, which we didn't need to see set up. Why not just bring in a guy who had a glowing service record? why not create a little conflict between the team, although it seemed that Carter had already rejected any command by going off to Area 51.

Would I have brought in Vala? Hmm...that's a tough one because I'm not sure I can separate my like for the actress from what's good for the show. I like Vala, but I think I like her because Claudia Black plays her. Someone else likely would have been too shrill or flat (SG1 has never overly impressed me with its ability to cast female guest stars). Vala certainly brought humor to the proceedings.

Landry...he doesn't get a lot to do. Maybe leaving hammond in place might have changed the dynamic to something people liked better. Wouldn't have mattered to me either way.

The only thing I can say with certainty is that I only started watching in season 9 because of Claudia Black's extended appearance, and Ben Browder's casting. I'm sure there are many who can say they stopped watching for the exact same reason.

speaking as a sam fan, there was a heck of a lot more story to tell on this character, especially if she was kept in place as sole team leader.

*my* idea of a wonderful sg1 after season 8 (after jack left) was for sam, daniel, and teal'c to be the team. or, bring in someone that's the fourth (like jonas). the ori storyline, landry, the rest could still have happened, just without mitchell and vala being brought into the mix.

would this have selled? well, with GOOD WRITING, it would. just look at the 8 years previous as a hint.

i still totally agree that change can be good. add the ori and landry, but keep the heart and soul of the show with the sam-daniel-teal'c combo. or when you add another member (which i wouldn't have minded at all), make him/her someone that has to fit with *them*.

but i have no doubt we could have seen wonderful and interesting stories with the sam-daniel-teal'c team. heck, you could have even retold some of the stories, only this time under a new flavor with sam, daniel, and teal'c being THE decision makers without jack's parenting comfort.

what's so sad is the stargate sg1 story is far from done... i just don't like this current configuration.




sally

[jeb]

De Facto, this is not my native tongue, and I often make a typo/approximation per sentence, but thanks for pointing it out.

[idlewild202]

I thought Cameron fit in much better in season 9. It took awhile to get the team back together, but once that happened, the rest of the season flowed very nicely.

Right now, with season 10, Cam seems very... how would I put it. Stale? It's like he's just there for affect, just saying the words. And I'm still trying to figure out what the heck is going on with Vala. Is she apart of SG-1 now, or just hanging around at Stargate command and accompanying them on missions. It's just not fitting together well.

In my opinon, season 9 was a huge sucess, but season 10 so far is a bit below standard in my book.

I'm very curious how they plan on wrapping this season up.

[esoap524]

Executive Summary to those who do not want to read my whole post: Suck it up and watch the show, nothing is perfect, and life is not fair (proof: SG-1 gets canceled and American idol goes on lol), be happy that there is a show like Stargate on the air in these intellectually challenged times, albeit Sg-1 is not perfect it is still better than nothing at all. Inwhich case we all get to watch ECW =O

That sounds like what one could say about life in general:

--Nothing is perfect
--Life is not fair
--Be happy with what you have, be it SG1, etc
--SG1 is not perfect but it's better than a poke in the eye (my interpretation)

Isn't it possible that TEN SEASONS is a hell of a lot? Isn't it possible that ten seasons was likely all there'd be? And regardless of who did what, when they came on the show, etc, it was going to end eventually? And if the folks who produce it and air it believe that their cost/value ratio is higher on the cost side than the value side that they're going to bail? Wouldn't any rational-minded business person do the same thing?

I guess it's an interesting discussion and it's all a matter of personal tastes. I started watching BECAUSE of Black, and to a lesser extent, Browder; ergo, I was interested in those characters. Vala intrigues me more than Mitchell but I'm usually more intrigued by a female character anyway so I can't say for certain that's a reflection on Mitchell.

I know I've already answered the question: No, I don't think they "killed" Sg1. I think price and lack of return on value did and I think, given the age of the show, that was inevitable.

[AGateFan]

Sci-Fi killed Sg-1, they wouldn't even give it a chance, and if they were to do Season 11, it would be years before their contract with Sci-Fi runs out. Sci-Fi wanted to cut spending and they take the show that made them. Why not cut some other crap like those ****ty movies?

They wouldnt even give it a chance? The shows been on scifi for 5 years.

IMHO scifi saved it from cancellation on showtime, didnt destroy it in the first year (major success for them). Kept renewing it every year that it got higher ratings to go with the higher cost and finally cancelled it when it got lower ratings to go along with the higher cost. It gave stargate plenty of chances.

Now dont get me wrong as it is also my opinion that scifi helped kill the show with bad suggestions of sex kittens and cheese (just like all thier original movies).....but ultimatily if it was scifi suggestion to have bad cliche characters on the show, its still TPTB who failed to find a way to fit these characters into the stargate universe and instead took the bad fanfic way out by writing a mary sue and anime sex kitten female cliche\transformed into anime annoying little sister cliche.

[.Aaron]

Anyway....

No, they didn't kill it, last season was going great, that had cam and some of valla in it. Even if they made the ratings worse, nothing killed stargate, sci fi just decided it was time to end it.

[Madeleine]

I am not advocating a patriarchal society nor a matriarchal one, just a society that is harmonuous with the laws of nature.

Nature doesn't have laws. Physics has laws, and governments have laws, but nature just has rules of thumb. Harmony isn't achieved by checking for external genitalia before deciding a person's capabilities and then informing them what those capabilities are.

[Tekin_Kashami]

I disagree. The writing has not suffered since season 7 it has gotten better. Scifi and the scheduling changes and the fact that all they wanted was the record is what cancelled the show.

I totally disagree. The humor has lost it's wit, andhas become childish. That kind of humor is why I don't like Atlantis. With the exception of Reckoning and Threads, the writing has plummeted since season 7.

[the fifth man]

I totally disagree. The humor has lost it's wit, andhas become childish. That kind of humor is why I don't like Atlantis. With the exception of Reckoning and Threads, the writing has plummeted since season 7.

I must respectfully disagree with that statement. I don't think the humor on SG-1 has lost anything at all, or become childish in any way. As for the writing, IMO, it is as strong now as it has ever been.

[Brockyman]

Cam and Vala are both good characters (although the team treats Vala really really bad...I know she was a former Goa'uld, but heck..Teal'c captured and killed several Air Force officers, captured and later killed Sha're, ect, and we all love him! Give Vala a fair shot!)

Anyway, other than Cam's hatred of Nukes, he is a good pilot and good leader. He'll never be O'Neill, but respect the man. Vala is hot, smart, and has a lot of talent (why don't the arm her w/ a ribbion device...the personal shield could come in handy....just a thought)

[Farscapefan]

Cam and Vala are both good characters (although the team treats Vala really really bad...I know she was a former Goa'uld, but heck..Teal'c captured and killed several Air Force officers, captured and later killed Sha're, ect, and we all love him! Give Vala a fair shot!)

Anyway, other than Cam's hatred of Nukes, he is a good pilot and good leader. He'll never be O'Neill, but respect the man. Vala is hot, smart, and has a lot of talent (why don't the arm her w/ a ribbion device...the personal shield could come in handy....just a thought)

Agree completely. After about 10 years people conveniently forgot about some things from the past. It's definitely much easier completely unfairly blaming new characters.

[scarimor]

Hey, it just occurred to me... if Cam and Vala did "kill" Stargate, shouldn't we be organising a posse or sumpin?

genre-clash

[scarimor]

Finally, I just want to ask a question, who is more successful and a shining example of her gender, a mother/homemaker or a TV channel president (lol)?

Both equally. Are we off-topic enough now?