The Cam and Vala discussion thread

[scifithinker]

I'm stuck on first impressions from season 9. I find Mitchell bearable/ignorable as long as he never gives anything resembling an order.

I'm still stuck on the fact that Vala continually subjected Daniel to sexual harassment and was never called on it. It wasn't funny. Not to mention that it sent (Air Force) verisimilitude to he...Netu.

[binkpmmc]

Could you blame them if they did? Is it any wonder that the applicants willing to serve on his team didn't seem like the best the SGC had to offer?

good point -- it all makes sense now, the experienced ones did transfer out because they feared serving with mitchell and that expalins the lack of capable people to be on a team with a seriously inexperienced nooby until they gave the real SG1 lobotomies and sent them back to the SGC with personality tranplants.

[scifithinker]

Yep, she does. It was RDA that drew me to the show. But after watching a few eps I got hooked on the characters. The Jaffa who abandoned his home and family to fight for a cause he believed in. The female scientist who had to earn respect in a male dominated world. Daniel a geeky archielogist who had just lost his wife. And Jack the hardnose Col. whose life fell apart with one shot of his own gun. Somehow these people came together to form not only a team, but a family. That is what I miss about this show.

I was a fan of neither RDA nor the movie. I started watching the show because a friend told me I had to because it was just that good. And sure enough, the characterization sucked me right in.

[ReganX]

good point -- it all makes sense now, the experienced ones did transfer out because they feared serving with mitchell and that expalins the lack of capable people to be on a team with a seriously inexperienced nooby until they gave the real SG1 lobotomies and sent them back to the SGC with personality tranplants.

It would explain the lack of conflict.

In fairness to Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, Mitchell really put them in an awkward position as far as rejoining SG-1 went. Had he done as Landry expected - ordered - him to and chosen three of the people who had actually applied to join SG-1 under his command, I don't doubt that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c would have happily formed their own team of three. However, given the way Mitchell badgered them to rejoin SG-1 and the fact that the three slots were still empty, if they had returned to the SGC but refused to take the vacant slots on SG-1, they would basically have been saying that they didn't trust Mitchell and didn't want him as a teammate - which would have been a disaster for him personally, and could very well have destroyed his standing in the eyes of the other officers at the SGC, people he was going to have to work with.

I don't see any of them wanting to do that unless they knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was no way that they would be able to work with him.

[Skydiver]

Thanks.
That’s exactly it though. I don’t know how many times I heard RDA say that the workplace had to be fun, but that at the same time the job had to be done. And to me that’s exactly what a boss is supposed to do. He’s responsible to create and enjoyable environment, make sure people enjoy coming to work, but at the same time make sure the job gets done professionally and to the best of their abilities.

there is NOTHING wrong with having fun at work. especially when these folks are working 12-14 hour days. you gotta have fun or you're gonna go nuts.

but isn't it possible to have fun and still give a fig enough to crank out a quality product?

[Skydiver]

I'm still stuck on the fact that Vala continually subjected Daniel to sexual harassment and was never called on it. It wasn't funny. Not to mention that it sent (Air Force) verisimilitude to he...Netu.

vala's never called on anything.

she mouths off to the senator, and they just roll thier eyes. she shoots her mouth off to landry, again a rolling of the eyes.

it's beyond unrealistic that NO ONE ever takes her aside and coaches her on propriety

it's like tptb were so afraid that people wouldn't like the characters that they went OTT to never ever crit them.

unfortunately, all it did was to make them very shallow and dismissable

[binkpmmc]

It would explain the lack of conflict.

In fairness to Sam, Daniel and Teal'c, Mitchell really put them in an awkward position as far as rejoining SG-1 went. Had he done as Landry expected - ordered - him to and chosen three of the people who had actually applied to join SG-1 under his command, I don't doubt that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c would have happily formed their own team of three. However, given the way Mitchell badgered them to rejoin SG-1 and the fact that the three slots were still empty, if they had returned to the SGC but refused to take the vacant slots on SG-1, they would basically have been saying that they didn't trust Mitchell and didn't want him as a teammate - which would have been a disaster for him personally, and could very well have destroyed his standing in the eyes of the other officers at the SGC, people he was going to have to work with.

I don't see any of them wanting to do that unless they knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that there was no way that they would be able to work with him.

Ordinarily I would agree with you however in S9 and S10 it was not the Sam, Daniel and Teal'c I had come to know over the course of 8 years of respectable TV (and in some ways I am grateful for that as at least we have the 8 years of respectability) - they are not the same characters and, IMO, the changes have been harsh. Sam is almost non-existent as the leader, soldier I knew for 6 1/2 years (IMO the problems for Sam's character started with that dreck in mid-S7 and it has been downhill ever since and again I blame cooper's "vision" or lack thereof), Daniel, as many others have put so well, is not even a shadow of the real Daniel and Teal'c, poor Teal'c, he has been made to be the "damsel in distress" that the hewo has to rescue which I find appalling and if I didn't laugh so hard at the utter fabrication and implausibility of the number of times TPTKTS put Teal'c in danger so fly-boy could have something to do that made it seem like he belonged I might've cried for Teal'c. Teal'c can out manuever and beat the crap out of just about anyone - he does not, and in most instances where I saw it these past 2 years did not, need the hewo to rescue him.

That, IMO, is the stuff that made it so bad - it was so contrived in so many ways, so poorly thought out, so ludicrous, so laughable, so lame, so illogical, so ham-fisted, so in-your-face, so look-how-kewl-he is, so "he's the bestest eva so you MUST like and accept him", - not just the changes made to Teal'c, Sam and Daniel for the sake of making the 2 noobies look like they belonged but right from mitchell's laughably contrived backstory and his inexperience and having never even SEEN a Stargate or been off-world, to Hammonds lame " band back together" line which was so forced and contrived it made me laugh out loud (and talk about a waste of an opportunity with Don S. Davis - it was almost as bad as the wasted opportunities with RDAs time in S10), to the oh-so-convenient beaming technology, to the space ships and the space fights and the lame ori and the evil alien baby cliches (and I could go on and on but won't as it has already been said) it has, imo, turned into one of the most mockable, laughable, less-than-mediocore, cliche ridden sci-fi shows on the air. It really is a shame they had to drag the Staragte SG-1 name down with their new show which I have no doubt would have kicked it after 1 season and simply didn't kick it after S9 because skiffy was dead set on getting that 10 year mark come he!! or high-water. In the words of Bloom County's Bill the Cat -- "pppfffttt".

[ReganX]

there is NOTHING wrong with having fun at work. especially when these folks are working 12-14 hour days. you gotta have fun or you're gonna go nuts.

but isn't it possible to have fun and still give a fig enough to crank out a quality product?

It was in the early seasons.

[ReganX]

vala's never called on anything.

she mouths off to the senator, and they just roll thier eyes. she shoots her mouth off to landry, again a rolling of the eyes.

it's beyond unrealistic that NO ONE ever takes her aside and coaches her on propriety

It would be good to see some consequences stemming from Vala shooting her mouth off - for example, the senator she insulted can hardly have wanted to increase funding for the SGC afterwards and I doubt he'd be thrilled to learn that she was on the flagship team.

it's like tptb were so afraid that people wouldn't like the characters that they went OTT to never ever crit them.

Wouldn't it have been more sensible to try to make the characters into people - not clichés - who were likeable in their own rights and who didn't need constant pimping?

[Skydiver]

Wouldn't it have been more sensible to try to make the characters into people - not clichés - who were likeable in their own rights and who didn't need constant pimping?

maybe if they'd have taken more than 15 minutes to sketch out the character, things could be different.

yes, i don't know how long they worked, none of us do, but s9 vala seems to be little more than 'let her be naughty, let her be fun, oh and how tight can you get that bustier????'

a little development in s9 snuck in there. we got a glimpse of vala's angst during TPTB, but then they fell back to jokes and pushed that development aside

and it's a loss adn a shame

[Shipperahoy]

Oh bugger. I'm happy. which one am I then?

Don't worry Mads, you're not alone. I am actually quite enjoying season 10. It's season 9 that I had some serious issues with.

[Skydiver]

i do agree. s10 is better than s9 was.

I don't think the show will ever return to what i define as quality and 'good', but it has gotten better

[Mandysg1]

Actually it would get more use in my backyard than on the show.

Oh, oh, can I have a ticket (special price of course)

[Mandysg1]

I agree completely with this analysis - mitchell is a non-entity for me. When I was still watching the show I would fast forward his scenes whenever possible (vala's too) and it never seemed to affect my ability to follow the show (I actually enjoy the show better when I did not have to see or hear him). He still (including S10), IMO, has no purpose on the team, he brings nothing to the team that was not already there with the BIG3. IMO he is divisive and distracting (and not in a good way). I find him grating partly because TPTKTS pushed him so hard and he is a walking cliche and caricature. He has no substance and I can't really even fathom how he made the team in the first place with so many other experienced SGCers about -- unless of course ALL of the experienced SGCers transferred to Area 51 with Carter the week before mitchell arrived because they all knew what a dangerous, inexperienced, gateless, off-worldless, noob he was and wanted to get away from him. God TPTKTS are so lame these past few years . . . .

Well I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who watches it that way. First impressions are crucial, and what they did with this character in S9, just makes me not able to watch him. No matter how they tried to redeem him in S10 it was too little, too late. His character could be killed off in the next episode, doing something incredible brave, and I still wouldn't care. But this is just MHO

[ReganX]

Well I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who watches it that way. First impressions are crucial, and what they did with this character in S9, just makes me not able to watch him. No matter how they tried to redeem him in S10 it was too little, too late. His character could be killed off in the next episode, doing something incredible brave, and I still wouldn't care. But this is just MHO

I definitely wouldn't object if Mitchell died and was never heard from again, but I wouldn't be in any way moved by his death, regardless of the circumstances.