Moving away then hanging around (shroud spoilers)

[upinout]

I was under the impression that the sangraal doesn't "kill" ascended beings, rather, it just "cancels them out", causing a kind of interferance that prevents the ascended from effecting the galaxy.

If that is the case, what's to stop a prior or adria from simply shutting the device down, thus allowing the ascended beings to regain the ability to manipulate the galaxy?

[Sauron18]

Cancel Out" means, by anyway you might try to see it, to destroy something, it is essentially the same as killing, I would say, except on the level of an ascended being. An ascended being isn't human anymore, you can't exactly kill them, but you can cancel it out.

The weapon, though not expressing the word "kill", was mentioned a great many times, by the only one who has read the actual words, as being able to "kill" ascended beings. I doubt Daniel would've risked so much if he wasn't sure the weapon would kill the Ori.

There's also the fact that Adria was convinced it could kill the Ancients, that Merlin made it to kill the Ori, and that the word "detonates" is used, and that it ticks like a bomb.

All indications and all actions by characters which know it better than we do exist on the basis that the weapon "detonates" and kills all ascended beings within a galaxy. "

[Lord_Sebek]

Spoiler:

I think the reason the ship moved was simple, the oriisi was on board. and the oriisi cannot be stopped, so she must want to go through the super gate so, it moved out of her way.

The reason the ori didnt stop the device is because they couldnt. They are still following the anchent rulebook of non DIRECT interfearance. they interfear though the priors, but never once have they themselves done anything. I suspect its because they can't. I think if they did then the anchents would kill them, remember there are alot more anchents and they are most likly older then the ori.

[PG15]

The Ori doesn't care about the interference policy; that's the whole reason why the Ancients AREN'T interfering.

They impregnated Vala, remember? I call that direct interference.

[Sauron18]

Reviewing the scene....it doesn't seem to me like the Ori Ship moves....at all.

[JanusAncient]

If the Ori couldn't really do that much, Merlin wouldn't have created a weapon in the first place. And, the Ori didn't kill the people in their galaxy because that was the Prior's duty. The Ancient's aren't older than the Ori. We don't yet know what happened, and Merlin was smart enough to create the weapon, but how could have possibly made it though ascended beings couldn't touch it, or stop it?

[The_Carpenter]

Merlin was smart enough to create the weapon, but how could have possibly made it though ascended beings couldn't touch it, or stop it?

Maybe its related to his phase shifting device? or maybe from the moment its activated is having the affect of cancelling out ascended beings but just in a small area of effect, once 5 minutes are up the area of effect is at maximum coverage and the damage done to the ascended plane in that area is irreversible? this would mean that any Ori attempting to disable it once it is active would be neutralised as soon as they got near (this also makes sense with the Asgards explanation of the device in Camelot).

Ultimately if Merlin was smart enough to build the weapon he must of known it would be useless if ascended beings (its only target) could disable it before it 'detonates'.

[Mitchell82]

Maybe its related to his phase shifting device? or maybe from the moment its activated is having the affect of cancelling out ascended beings but just in a small area of effect, once 5 minutes are up the area of effect is at maximum coverage and the damage done to the ascended plane in that area is irreversible? this would mean that any Ori attempting to disable it once it is active would be neutralised as soon as they got near (this also makes sense with the Asgards explanation of the device in Camelot).

Ultimately if Merlin was smart enough to build the weapon he must of known it would be useless if ascended beings (its only target) could disable it before it 'detonates'.

True but it have to be acsessable to ascended beings.

[The_Carpenter]

True but it have to be acsessable to ascended beings.

I'm going to guess that you meant that the weapon has to be accessible to ascended beings?

Why does it have to be? we know that they are not all powerful and certainly not all knowing, they have limitations and as merlin had knowledge from when he was ascended he would know those limitations and thus be equipped to exploit them.

[J_B]

It doesn't look like the ship moves at all, which should be the case!

Adria figured something like that would happen, so she either hid on the ship all along along with her warriors, or she was on the other ship near the gate, then ringed aboard after SG-1 got there.

Either way, I'm sure she warned the other ship not to interfere because she was obviously confident in her own plan. Even DJ as the Prior I'm sure she knew couldn't defeat her. Only she wasn't counting on him having the anti-prior device with him, that allowed her powers to be temporarily nulled. Of which allowed him to bypass her personal shield & knock her ass out.

The other ship would have been briefed of the plan, especially when the gate connection went down etc. So they thought everything was going to script & so there was no reason to get involved. It had it's orders to stay by the gate, so it did. The gate dialled up, Adria came on back through & she ordered the other ship to come with the others to wherever they were going.

One thing though is why it went off after 5 mins. Surely that's too much time for someone to potentially it. Would have made more sense to have been 1 minute.

Not only that but the whole rushy, rush urgent thing was a bit too much. DJ would have lost his Prior powers, but he could have noted down all the info relating to the Ori ships. After taking the ship. They would have had the weapon. Then also Adria as well. Fly it back to Earth, beam Adria down into the stasis pod in Antartica.

Lastly, use the SG'c new ZPM to dial the coordinates of the Ori home galaxy
taken from DJ's prior days. Then walk up to the ramp & chuck it through. 5 mins later it goes off, takes out the Ori in their own patch. They have a totally working Ori ship at their disposal & the Orici. The remaining 3 ships in this galaxy would be lost without their masters back home along with their leader in this galaxy.

All they have is 3 Ori ships. However with Merlins device, they could phase out a 304. Fire a few nukes towards the Ori ship. Wait until theya re in range, then phase back in. The weapons detonate inside the ships & take them out. Bingo, galaxy free of the Ori!

[g.o.d]

All they have is 3 Ori ships. However with Merlins device, they could phase out a 304. Fire a few nukes towards the Ori ship. Wait until theya re in range, then phase back in. The weapons detonate inside the ships & take them out. Bingo, galaxy free of the Ori!

It won't work.Ori shileds are very strong.They even withstand impact of Hatak.Beaming nukes/jaffas bombs aboard Ori ships doesn't work either

[Mitchell82]

I'm going to guess that you meant that the weapon has to be accessible to ascended beings?

Why does it have to be? we know that they are not all powerful and certainly not all knowing, they have limitations and as merlin had knowledge from when he was ascended he would know those limitations and thus be equipped to exploit them.

B/C if it wasnt they wouldnt have been able to destroy the first one. Also I'm figuring Merlin was ascended so he had to be able to use it.

[JanusAncient]

If the weapon can effect ascended beings, they an ascended being logically should be able to effect the weapon. So, the Ori should have been able to detect and neutralize the weapon. Or, if you really want to be serious create an energy in direct opposition to what the weapon puts out, on their ascended plane nullifying the weapon discharge itself.

[Mitchell82]

The Ori doesn't care about the interference policy; that's the whole reason why the Ancients AREN'T interfering.

They impregnated Vala, remember? I call that direct interference.

Uh yeah a big one. I think also some forget that we don't know if the weapon indeed went off. Many things could have happend so all we can do is guess.

[The_Carpenter]

B/C if it wasnt they wouldnt have been able to destroy the first one. Also I'm figuring Merlin was ascended so he had to be able to use it.

Ok, for a start Merlin descended to build the weapon and (spoilers for the quest part 2)

Spoiler:

Did not reascend

as for how they destroyed the first one:-

a) the device was off when the ancients destroyed it
b) Morgan Lafray could of descended to destroy the weapon and subsequently reascend with the help of the others

If the weapon can effect ascended beings, they an ascended being logically should be able to effect the weapon. So, the Ori should have been able to detect and neutralize the weapon. Or, if you really want to be serious create an energy in direct opposition to what the weapon puts out, on their ascended plane nullifying the weapon discharge itself.

Ok, look at it this way someone fires a gun at you, can you effect the bullet before it hits you? no

Granted the Ori may of been able to disable the advice before it was active, but as the device was active when it was sent through the gate they may well of been unable to prevent it especially if it functions as I think it might.

from the moment its activated is having the affect of cancelling out ascended beings but just in a small area of effect, once 5 minutes are up the area of effect is at maximum coverage and the damage done to the ascended plane in that area is irreversible? this would mean that any Ori attempting to disable it once it is active would be neutralised as soon as they got near (this also makes sense with the Asgards explanation of the device in Camelot).

from earlier in the post.