Plot Holes :D

[ziga1980]

yeah that with cellphones is true but think about it another way. if you called someones phone thats dead and your battery would charge his so you could talk. or something like that.

that with brainwashing...i dont see why it wouldnt work. adria fiercly belive in the ori. if they cloned a billion of humans and gave them the knowledge they need to realize by them selfs that the ori are gods it would have to work.but if someone fails to realize the right thing hes considered evil and burned to death by other belivers (clones).

its not really the issue who left but the reasons why. the lanteans had efficient space travel, were scientists and were never afraid to use military power even before they left. the ori, before they ascended, were a bunch of 16th century religon fanatics that burned those who didnt follow them. the logical question would be why didnt the lanteans wipe out the ori like insects or make them leave. send everyone through the stargate somewhere...and when they're all there you simply go there take the stargate and never go to that planet again. fairly simple.

[FallenAngelII]

It's still weird for something to be absolutely devoid of power, yet activate when something calls it.

Then again, we've gated to planets without working DHDs before >_>'. Let's just say the Ancients transcend logic.

[MarshAngel]

that with brainwashing...i dont see why it wouldnt work. adria fiercly belive in the ori. if they cloned a billion of humans and gave them the knowledge they need to realize by them selfs that the ori are gods it would have to work.but if someone fails to realize the right thing hes considered evil and burned to death by other belivers (clones).

Adria doesn't "believe" in the Ori out of faith. She doesn't worship them at all. That would be redundant, she's in on the scheme.

The issue with brainwashing is that its replacing natural thinking processses with programmed thoughts. It's like pulling puppet strings... you do all the work to get it where you want it to go and all the energy is yours being wasted. But imagine if you could make a moving object do what you want simply by telling it it's a good idea.... minimal energy expended and goal accomplished.

The Ori have no need to expend their own energy brainwashing people to believe something they are naturally inclined to do anyway. Humans tend to have faith in the intangible and they are already here. It's far easier to manipulate an existing natural process than to make one up and all they have to do is show up occasionally.

...the ori, before they ascended, were a bunch of 16th century religon fanatics that burned those who didnt follow them. the logical question would be why didnt the lanteans wipe out the ori like insects or make them leave. send everyone through the stargate somewhere...and when they're all there you simply go there take the stargate and never go to that planet again. fairly simple.

Why do you think they were 16th c. fanatics? There is no evidence of that. Just because a person is religious doesn't mean they don't use or understand science and technology. Every religious person I know has a computer and a TV... some of them are engineers. The alterans and the Ori has a philosophical split. In no way does that imply the Ori eschewed technology altogether or lacked understanding of science.

[hungrytrash]

Regarding the Ancients succumbing to a plague, bear in mind that while the Ancients might've been around for tens of millions or even a few hundred million years, it's been theorized that the microorganisms on Earth alone have been around for at least several billion, and have shown to be constantly evolving (not to mention incredibly resilient). Even with the Ancient's superior physiology, I'm sure the Ori might've been able to modify the appropriate virus strain (since the Ori and Ancients have shown to be masters of biotechnology) to be incredibly virulent and lethal to the Ancients. It probably hit them so hard galaxy-wide and mutated at such an accelerated rate that the Ancients weren't able to find a way to effectively combat the illness short of ascending.

And as for the Ori's followers further fuelling their power, I believe this delves into more spiritual/cosmic aspects and can't purely be explained by science like fission, black holes and ZPMs. I believe the writers might've taken a cue from certain literature like The Sandman and Lucifer comics (published by Vertigo and highly recommended reading IMO) or even The Discworld series of comic fantasy novels by Terry Pratchet where many deities are revealed to be directly powered by the amount of belief in them. The more followers they have who genuinely worship them, the stronger they get but if all the mere mortals ignore them, they get considerably weakened and some even fade away to nothing more than a shadow or whisper.

You've had the best answer yet. The thing was, I wasn't talking about Atlantis vs. the Wraith. One city is a completely different thing than an entire civilization...also I didn't mean the plague the Ancients died to. I meant that there wasn't really anything to hurt their growth until the Wraith arrived.


And about brainwashing ascended beings, I mean completely brainwash them while they are corporeal (picture a kull warrior) and then ascending them. They can know the truth AND be loyal.

P.S. Even if the clones weren't brainwashed, it wouldn't matter. The ori could create trillions of followers at will instead of using their energy to fight an entire war to convert a few measly million.

[Lord of Nightmares]

You've had the best answer yet. The thing was, I wasn't talking about Atlantis vs. the Wraith. One city is a completely different thing than an entire civilization...also I didn't mean the plague the Ancients died to. I meant that there wasn't really anything to hurt their growth until the Wraith arrived.

Yeah, regarding how the Pegasus Galaxy fell to the Wraith, my best guess would be that Lantea was likely their most well-defended and advanced colony, with the other worlds (especially those seeded with human life) not being *quite* as well-developed. The Wraith most likely struck the least defended colonies first in order to nourish themselves, and then slowly worked their way up from there, gradually whittling away at the Ancient's defenses until Lantea was all that was left. Sure, the Wraith most likely lost a whole crapload of ships and personnel throughout the 100-year war, but I'd say that hunger can really drive you to desperation, and they could easily afford to lose dozens or even hundreds of their own kind for every Ancient that fell (there'd also be less hands to feed in the process).

I think it's kinda based on a similar scenario with the Tyranids and the Imperium of Mankind in Warhammer 40k. The Tyranids have the advantage in numbers (we're talking about them possibly outnumbering humanity by several thousand to one even though the Imperium is a freakin' galactic power) while the Imperium has the distinct advantage in numbers. Even then, Imperium strategists estimate that if the Tyranids were to launch all their known Hivefleets against the Imperium, humanity would be inevitably overwhelmed even if every able-bodied person were to take up arms. Even against a single Hivefleet, the Imperiums best strategy was to direct the Tyranids to attack Ork (an enemy of the Imperium, think Orcs in space) territories first to give humans more time to better prepare and hopefully get the Orks to whittle down the Tyranid's numbers somewhat.

Although as to how the Wraith had the numbers advantage while residing in the same galaxy as the Ancients without the latter noticing, I have absolutely no idea. The best answer I can come up with would be that the Wraith at one point were breeding like lemmings before they realized there just wasn't enough food to go around. The galaxy's a pretty big place, and I'm sure even the Ancient's galaxy-spanning empire couldn't monitor everywhere at once, and so the Wraith slowly bided their time and built up their numbers (perhaps consuming outlying colony worlds in the process which were too far removed to maintain in constant communication with the other Ancient colonies) until they eventually declared all-out war. It could also be that the Ancients in their arrogance understimated the severity of the situation until it was way too late. Who knows, except perhaps the writers themselves.

[LORD MONK]

I, being a complete dork and uber Stargate fan, have built up a deep and powerful anger towards these plot holes that I can't fill. I decided to list them here to see if there are any answers to the horror that I face.

1. Humans as we know them have been around for maybe 40,000 years or so (feel free to correct me .) We have suffered all kinds of diseases, fought wars, fallen prey to nature, etc...and yet here we are with a mere six billion population.
The Ancients, however, were in the Pegasus galaxy for millions of years, had no wars (pre-wraith,) and with their technology, I seriously doubt they were killed by disease or plague, etc. Millions of years>40,000 years. Shouldn't they have had trillions of population? Not to mention the worlds they made...they would all be more advanced than the Asgard, who have only had efficient space travel for 30,000 years or so. The worlds they made should've been amazing. Still, the Wraith, whom the Ancients created accidently (in theory,) managed to outnumber the Ancients, defeat them and their ability to make zpms at will, and feed on the should-be extremely advanced civilizations created by the Ancients. Ummm, any answers to fill the hole would be appreciated .

2. The Ori can harness the energy of a black hole, but find the pathetic amounts of energy in humans more empowering? Excluding that, they are the Ori. Why not just making clones? They have galaxies at their disposal, make trillions of clones who are brainwashed to worship them. Wow, they just gained enough power to whoop the Ancients. Oh yeah, and wouldn't ascending the Ori followers give them more power? On the ascended realm, power is in numbers (and apparently human followers.) If you outnumbered your enemy 10 to 1, I'm pretty sure you'd whoop them. Plus the ascended beings they made could also be brainwashed so that theyd do anything the real Ori wanted. There are more but my hands hurt. .

Where is the plot holes. If yu want to bring this up then why not bring up the fact that they travel to different worlds through a stargate. Lets start thee.


Bottum line is it is there story and they can tell it any way they want. It doesn't make it a plot hole. A plot hole is something taht goes against the plot.

[ziga1980]

yeah there is one flaw in your teories. you assume that wraith had ships all along. what if they somehow assaulted an outpost on foot accessed their database, but at the time being they were to primitive to understand it. however they learned how to use stargate, got basic info on spacetravel and energy based weapons. but more imporant...the locations of other outposts colonies. because there is no other explonation for the wraith even finding other outposts. lanteans could easily engage cloak when they detected wraith.

[silence]

OK, here is a question, if Ancients seeded PG with human life when they came there (50+ mill) years ago, how come that here on Earth Homo Sapiens is only some 20-30000 years old?

Havent they done same in MW also?

[Lord of Nightmares]

It's never been stated that the Ancients began seeding like in the Milky Way several million years back right after they arrived in the Pegasus Galaxy. For all we know, it might've taken them millions of years to fully explore and establish themselves in that galaxy, and only begin seeding the current evolution of humanity there say several tens of thousands of years back. Perhaps they didn't even develop such technology until much later on. Who knows, there could be a variety of reasons.

[FallenAngelII]

It's never been stated that the Ancients began seeding like in the Milky Way several million years back right after they arrived in the Pegasus Galaxy. For all we know, it might've taken them millions of years to fully explore and establish themselves in that galaxy, and only begin seeding the current evolution of humanity there say several tens of thousands of years back. Perhaps they didn't even develop such technology until much later on. Who knows, there could be a variety of reasons.

This is actually a valid theory as the Wraith war only lasted 100 years and I pretty much doubt the Wraith either hibernated for millions of years after coming to be or that the Ancients would leave them alone to wreck havoc for a few millions years.

OK, here is a question, if Ancients seeded PG with human life when they came there (50+ mill) years ago, how come that here on Earth Homo Sapiens is only some 20-30000 years old?

Havent they done same in MW also?

They used the Dakara weapon to re-seed the Milky Way millions of years ago before leaving for Pegasus. Everything died (except maybe the Furlings and the Nox) and re-evolved.

yeah there is one flaw in your teories. you assume that wraith had ships all along. what if they somehow assaulted an outpost on foot accessed their database, but at the time being they were to primitive to understand it. however they learned how to use stargate, got basic info on spacetravel and energy based weapons. but more imporant...the locations of other outposts colonies. because there is no other explonation for the wraith even finding other outposts. lanteans could easily engage cloak when they detected wraith.

Sounds like the idea for a new show. Stargate: Wraith-1

[hungrytrash]

It took us ten years to explore our galaxy, yet it took the Ancients several million? Dang those guys are slow.

[FallenAngelII]

It took us ten years to explore our galaxy, yet it took the Ancients several million? Dang those guys are slow.

We've hardly explored our entire galaxy.

[hungrytrash]

Yet we traverse it, and know about thousands of worlds, and were sort of distracted by the Goa'uld. Just because we don't know about every lifeless planet doesn't mean we haven't explored our galaxy >>.

[MarshAngel]

Yet we traverse it, and know about thousands of worlds, and were sort of distracted by the Goa'uld. Just because we don't know about every lifeless planet doesn't mean we haven't explored our galaxy >>.

The only reason we know these worlds is because the Ancients took the time to put gates on them. Initial exploration and mapping had to be done for all those gates. All we had to do was follow a road built by someone else. That's like criticizing people 200 years ago for taking so damn long to get to San Francisco when we can fly there in a few hours.

[hungrytrash]

Yeah, I'm not saying it'd take 10 years to explore a galaxy. I'm saying it wouldn't take five million, especially for the Ancients.