First details on SG-1's 'The Shroud' (SPOILERS)

[Dani347]

BTW, how do you do that strike out thing with words and phrases?

eta: that was for Spaz.

And now, nyxlily, made me think of something else. I want Daniel's fundamental character to stay the same. He's a good guy. Temporary badness, if that, is fine. But, he should end good. SG1 are the good guys. But, aside from that, how would something like this change him? What darkness would it add to his fundamental character?

[Hubble]

Just a thought.
What is the point of soft selling Origin? If they say "no thanks" will the prior/Daniel just go away? That's not really the Ori's M.O.

Another hint in the prior/fake prior debate?

My thought as well. So...if people say no to the "kinder, gentler Daniel-Prior", is he just going to smile, say "Okie Dokie" and leave? Nothing to be gained by that and certainly not the Ori's MO as you say. And if he doesn't do anything bad as a Prior – no killing people, just preaching and trying to convert them, how is there going to be any emotional after effect for Daniel since he didn't do anything bad really? (Other than become an evangelist.)

The idea sounds very interesting, but it's going to require some really good writing, and logical/sound explanations as to the hows and whys or else it will just be really lame, IMO and nothing more than sensationalism and disappointment.

[Dani347]

But, if his soft sell convinces people to believe, that means that much more power for the Ori, and it's still a type of enslavement for the people. They'll just be coerced in a kindler, gentler way. And, just convincing them at all could be angsty for Daniel, even if he didn't threaten them to do it. Although I do have my doubts about the soft sell approach.

Plus, there is always the possibility that the really bad stuff might involve the rest of SG1. He goes up against them, fights them, only he loses and they bring him back to the SGC, having found some way to turn him back without him dying.

[Hubble]

But, if his soft sell convinces people to believe, that means that much more power for the Ori, and it's still a type of enslavement for the people. They'll just be coerced in a kindler, gentler way. And, just convincing them at all could be angsty for Daniel, even if he didn't threaten them to do it. Although I do have my doubts about the soft sell approach.

Plus, there is always the possibility that the really bad stuff might involve the rest of SG1. He goes up against them, fights them, only he loses and they bring him back to the SGC, having found some way to turn him back without him dying.

I realize believers equals power for the Ori. But from what I've seen so far, most people start to believe out of fear, feeling they can't fight them since the Ori can kill you outright, cause plagues, etc. I just don't see why millions of people would willingly give it up to the Ori based on Daniel's powers of persuasion and be willing to accept that Origin is the one true path; that they are Gods. Unless Daniel is hopping around to poverty-stricken planets, showing the people that he can turn water into wine at the flick of his staff or some such thing, there would be no reason to accept the soft sell.

Just makes me suspicious. Like they want to do this with Daniel – make him go darkside, but only sort of. Because if he was really turned into a Prior who was responsible for taking life and killing people, fans would never forgive PTB for destroying the character, Daniel probably could't live with it, so they'll just make him a nice "feeling" Prior.

I dunno.....

[nyxlily]

I wouldn't like to see the series end with Daniel being evil either.. but I'm just an optimist hoping for another season.. *hides from all the antis* I know there are some who don't like where the show is going, but it is still entertaining me.. and dammit, I love Daniel too much to let go!

As to the lighter approach.. perhaps he could go to the planet everyday and preach until they break down from the repetitiveness and cry for mercy. Like the people who goes to your door preaching their religion and won't go away until they gave you a bunch of brochures and insist on holding a little prayer section. That was my attempt at humor. I apologize subjecting you to it.

[Peoples_General]

Daniel Jackson will being balance to the Force... errr... Alterans (Ori & Ancients)!!! LOL!

Doci: "Prior Jackson.... RISE!"
Prior Jackson: "Where is... Sha'Re?"
Doci: "In your quest for science... you lost her."
Prior Jackson: "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

LOL!

HALLOWED ARE THE ORI!



----

So Daniel is originally on the side of the Ancients, but for some reason.. he joins with the Ori.
Sounds a lot like Jedi/Sith to me.

[the fifth man]

Even though the "priorized" Daniel may be doing the "soft-sell" on folks from other worlds, what if the real atrocities he commits are against members of the SGC? Not SG-1 of course, because we know he can't kill any of them. But what about wiping out an entire SG team for trying to stop/capture him? Think about the long-term effects and ramifications of that on him if he were to return to normal. How could he live with the fact that he killed some of his own?

[the fifth man]

I wouldn't like to see the series end with Daniel being evil either.. but I'm just an optimist hoping for another season.. *hides from all the antis* I know there are some who don't like where the show is going, but it is still entertaining me.. and dammit, I love Daniel too much to let go!

As to the lighter approach.. perhaps he could go to the planet everyday and preach until they break down from the repetitiveness and cry for mercy. Like the people who goes to your door preaching their religion and won't go away until they gave you a bunch of brochures and insist on holding a little prayer section. That was my attempt at humor. I apologize subjecting you to it.

I don't think this show will end with Daniel evil. I just don't think they'd end things like that. Plus, I truly believe this show has more than just one season left in it.

[nyxlily]

Actually, on a serious note.. what if they DO use Sha're to turn him? One scenario where I can see him turn is the possibility of bringing Sha're back. During one moment of weakness, or perhaps the shock of seeing her, he agrees to side with the Ori. Perhaps he reason that he could do it for her sake, learn all the intel he could of the Ori, then sacrifice himself in some way. Though it'd mean he'd die, I'm sure he'd think it's more than fair. Remember that he had always thought he failed her, now he could have a second chance in saving her. I don't think it likely we'll see Sha're again.. but that just got me thinking.

[Dani347]

The thing is, beliefs aren't always founded on fear. In fact, I'd say more often they aren't. Take Tomin, for instance. I don't think he's been scared into believing the Ori. So, just because the Ori have used that tactic before, doesn't mean it's the only way to go.

And, isn't turning one person astray bad enough? I mean, if you found out you did, would you be able to say it's only one person? So, even if he doesn't get millions of people over to the Ori, I'd say any number would be too many for him. Especially knowing he did it.

Anyway, isn't persuading someone to join up with evil beings bad in itself, regardless of how it's done? Anyway, they have to be able to bring Daniel back. And, there's still the possibility of him going up against the rest of SG1 and doing more dangerous stuff. Not killing them, but trying, because he'll see them as the enemy.

Thinking about it, I believe if the full amount of his darkness is against SG1, that would be more effective. We don't know the people on the other planets, so while we can care about it in the abstract, it would be personal to see Daniel trying to eliminate his teammates and friends. And, the fallout. The fallout when he comes to his senses and knows about it. I could see a sort of tightrope tptb would have to walk. Having the others blow it off would be too easy. Having them not trust him at all would be too difficult. But, just the right balance of reaction to him and his reaction and it could be interesting.


Arrgh. Must not think interesting ideas. *tells herself she has to suffer through a lot of origin spouting and no pretty*

[the dancer of spaz]

BTW, how do you do that strike out thing with words and phrases?

haha, I just learned a few weeks ago.

You put your text in between [strike] and [ /strike] without the space.

I always wondered why people put the space there until recently...

[Dani347]

testing

Thanks!

[Stevo]

Actually, on a serious note.. what if they DO use Sha're to turn him? One scenario where I can see him turn is the possibility of bringing Sha're back. During one moment of weakness, or perhaps the shock of seeing her, he agrees to side with the Ori. Perhaps he reason that he could do it for her sake, learn all the intel he could of the Ori, then sacrifice himself in some way. Though it'd mean he'd die, I'm sure he'd think it's more than fair. Remember that he had always thought he failed her, now he could have a second chance in saving her. I don't think it likely we'll see Sha're again.. but that just got me thinking.

that plot sounds alot like how palpatine turned anakin in SW 3 ROTS

sounds possible but unlikely, good thought though

[greytop]

I got an idea Daniel will be

Spoiler:

cloned somehow. Because he wouldn't become a prior because he believes strongly in Free Will.

[sgeureka]

Just a thought.
What is the point of soft selling Origin? If they say "no thanks" will the prior/Daniel just go away? That's not really the Ori's M.O.

Maybe Daniel is a Prior on his own mission (still, yes, some Ori had to turn him into a Prior.) Maybe, and that's where I think it could get interesting, Daniel really believes what he (Daniel) is preaching. Have you ever tried to convince a deeply religious person that what he believes in doesn't make any scientific sense and hence is rubbish? It won't work, and you'll just make enemies. Same for SG-1, if TPTB go that route. How will they turn Daniel back into his normal self then?

Anyway, my point is, normal after-Ascension Daniel is of the soft selling type. He'll believe in what he believes in, and won't force someone to join his belief. But he'll offer his findings. So if someone or something provided evidence that Origin is right, Daniel will re-adjust but still act as he did before. Quoting Daniel from Origin:

I can't speak for everyone in my galaxy, but in my own humble opinion, I don't believe that any individual or society can achieve enlightenment through fear mongering and forced servitude, no matter what power is presented as evidence. That's something the ascended beings I know, very clearly seemed to understand. Don't get me wrong, I mean, we should all try to better ourselves. I mean, if ascension really is the ultimate end we're trying to achieve, then so be it, but we should all be allowed to get there or not of our own free will.

My thought as well. So...if people say no to the "kinder, gentler Daniel-Prior", is he just going to smile, say "Okie Dokie" and leave? Nothing to be gained by that and certainly not the Ori's MO as you say. And if he doesn't do anything bad as a Prior – no killing people, just preaching and trying to convert them, how is there going to be any emotional after effect for Daniel since he didn't do anything bad really? (Other than become an evangelist.)

Killing people is almost as bad as converting people, who'll then kill people. Think of the snowball effect or pyramid schemes. I'd feel bad if someone got harmed by my actions, but if my brother suddenly harms people in my name, I'd feel more terrible than before, because I can't control his actions, only mine.