S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Jackie]

AoT was out done by three furry chipmunks for me that faithful evening. So that should speak volumes about Coop's vision of the Bori and the Replicator Arnold.

Sorry Mr. Cooper but I liked Alvin and Chipmunks better than your movie.

Maybe writing, directing and producing a 7 million dollar movie in 6 months was a bit rushed.

Can't help but wonder if AoT will be remade in another 5 years. (Hope not) after another grand vision.

Continuum does look better...just hope tptb didn't over do it with the special effects.

Anyways, tptb have been and will be writing, producing the show THEY like and it purely to entertain themselves.

the people who wrote the series MASH wrote from the heart and not for pure enjoyment of their own device.

MASH has out done SG-1 in the end. Both shows ran a decade (MASH 11 years) both shows had cast changes but MASH ended on a high note. The war ended and the characters went home. There was closer and no one ever wondered just what type of relationship Hot Lips and Hawkeye developed...for their relationship was far deeper than romance or friendship.

Now there was a "ship" I truly enjoyed. Obviously they liked each other and respected each other despite the child like pranks they pulled on each other.

The ship for Jack and Sam just left me wondering wtf? Another tease. Blah.

maybe if tptb went back to the old formula from early SG-1 they would find it in their heart to write SG-1 again instead of Stargate command.

[AGateFan]

Snippet from a recent R Cooper interview:

"Once again, Mitchell gets put through the ringer. Has it become a guilty pleasure to watch him take some serious lumps?

He is just very good at it. There is something about seeing a hero get the crap beat out of him and survive. The harder the journey for the hero, the more you like him in the end. Ben Browder happens to be very good at having the crap beat out of him."

Jeepers this bolded part seems so gratuitous and forced from RC, he strikes me as a guy who thinks if he says something enough it'll miraculously come true sort of like this "see, if we beat him up enough you WILL like him". A lot of what I see and read around various places is people tired of seeing CM being beat up all the time - seems that is all he is good for and that's the "role" they gave BB as CM - he clearly didn't fit into the team any other way so he is the guy that gets beat up.

I've seen RC say things like this in other interviews like he's trying to convince people to stop disliking something (like seasons 9-10). Sort of how they had Carter tell Teal'c how she likes his new hairstyle to make a dig at the fans who had pretty much expressed a greater dislike than like for it, talk about desperate, again a quote from what the discussion may have sounded like in writing room "well they don't like his hair buit if we have Carter say she likes it then they will HAVE to like it cuz Carter says so, ok let's go with that then."

The other thing I saw about the interview was RC's answer to why the Replicators were included (an area of the movie routinely criticized by many, many fans for being way out of touch) and he said they were included because "he likes them",. Ringy-dingy!!!! There's our answer boys and girls and it is a theme heard through seasons 9-10 and from several other of the PTBs (Joe Mallozzi comes immediately into memory)' they did what THEY liked, what THEY thought was fun and there goes the show and the AoT movie right behind it into the dump.

I'm sooo sooo happy that Brad Wright handled Continuum alone - I can just feel that it will be so much better than seasons 9-10 and AoT. It, I think, will remain true to Stargate SG-1 and it's core main characters of Jack, Sam, Daniel and Teal'c. Sure Mitchell may be there but I sincerely hope he will be minimized and it already sounds like

Spoiler:

Vala is

so it should be all good.

Carter had to mention she liked Teal'cs hair.
Mckay had to mention he likes the new uniforms.
Daniel has to explain (and not well since its not even close to true, but then neither were the above statements IMHO) why vala is like Teal'c and thus deserves to be liked.
EVERYONE has to say they like Mitchell.

Its a theme. Its poor writing. Like something a mary sue writer would write so everyone knows that their ideas are the bestest...see the actually well created (before being dismantled) characters like them!

[jckfan55]

I got that same impression when Sam told Vala she deserved to be a team member of SG-1. Wow if Sam said it, it must be true. It shows desperation on the part of TPTB to have Vala accepted. If they had wrote a likeable character the fans wouldn't needed to be told to accept Vala, they would have on their own. It seems TPTB are into telling us instead of showing us.

That line felt so obviously that it was serving exactly that purpose it made me sick. Particularly b/c Sam and Vala had barely interacted. When Sam said a similar thing to Jonas in Sight Unseen, ("You're part of the team, Jonas, we should trust you"--or something like that.) it was a bit awkward, but you had a bit of a history there that made it true.

Carter had to mention she liked Teal'cs hair.
Mckay had to mention he likes the new uniforms.
Daniel has to explain (and not well since its not even close to true, but then neither were the above statements IMHO) why vala is like Teal'c and thus deserves to be liked.
EVERYONE has to say they like Mitchell.

Its a theme. Its poor writing. Like something a mary sue writer would write so everyone knows that their ideas are the bestest...see the actually well created (before being dismantled) characters like them!

Yep. Shudder. And the thing earlier about us liking the hero b/c he gets beaten up that RCC was saying...

Any one remember or maybe watched in reruns "The Rockford Files?" One of the refreshing things about Jim Rockford was that he was not the old style PI Hero--for instance he tried to talk his way out of situations instead of fighting & he sometimes got beaten up by the bad guys. But that wasn't WHY we liked him. He had a personality.
One of the things I always appreciated about O'Neill is how he wasn't going to go charging in & get himself (and his team) killed. Risk when necessary, but try to do it the smart way. Mitchell is just too immature to do that.

I was somewhat disturbed in the last couple of seasons with the way TPTB used Mitchell and especially Teal'c as punching bags.

and along with that how Sam, who for 8 years could hold her own in a firefight or hand to hand situation, barely had her military side recognized.

[Silverwings]

Some good comments here, especially Jackie's MASH citation. I'll have to come back in a bit when my green has regenerated.

[Skydiver]

to all of the above. Anise was fine as a short term antagonist but the whole Tok'ra Spice thing was clearly pandering to the hormonal boy part of the demographic it was resisted by the SG audience.

especially when her costume shrunk every episode until she was running around in tight short pants and a bikini type top

You know, ther'es more to being sexy than running around with your assets hanging out.

and then, why do you think Ren'al showed up wearing a high collared, long sleeved long robe???? a 'bite me' to those that complained about anise (my opinion anyway)

[Jackie]

I got that same impression when Sam told Vala she deserved to be a team member of SG-1. Wow if Sam said it, it must be true. It shows desperation on the part of TPTB to have Vala accepted. If they had wrote a likeable character the fans wouldn't needed to be told to accept Vala, they would have on their own. It seems TPTB are into telling us instead of showing us.

I feel so bad...I completely missed your post. (Must be due to the screaming kid earlier or my cat that thinks it's a dog and begs.)


I noticed tptb have to tell us a lot lately. We can't possibly draw up our own conclusions without a character telling us so.

The RC quote about people liking a character cause he gets beaten up is just ridicules. I have never found myself liking a character that repeatedly gets the crap kicked out of him or her. I find it more of a distraction...a long fight scene that takes away time from the acting.

The only time I like to see a scene that is choreographed is in a musical. Occasionally, I like to watch Jackie Chan do his martial stunts but that's it as far as fighting.

[suse]

and why did anise not last long???

fans hated her and hated her attitude thus, after her initial 3 eps run, she was dropped

i seem to remember Bridge being told (by MGM?) to add a scantily clad character because 7 of 9 was added to Voyager. And them being pleased the fans didn't bite about the character, saying something about the fans being too smart to fall for that. Did the fans become stupid after S8? <sigh>

Heaven knows the AF would have had a fit if they tried anything like that with Sam. So they had to ass someone new.

suse

[Skydiver]

at least to me, there was a definite and obvious slide into immaturity iwth the departure of gekko and rick.

boosting a weak show with boobs is a sign of the writing lacking

and yeah, IIRC, tptb at the time knew that anise was a bad idea and, i think, were quite gleeful to say 'see, told ya so' to cohen.

but they didn't learn their lesson, cause they repeated it again

[suse]

I was somewhat disturbed in the last couple of seasons with the way TPTB used Mitchell and especially Teal'c as punching bags.

and along with that how Sam, who for 8 years could hold her own in a firefight or hand to hand situation, barely had her military side recognized.

Well naturally we wouldn't want that. People might remember that she oh.... LED THE TEAM!!!!!!

/sarcasm (could you tell?)

suse

[Skydiver]

but, but, but she's a



GIRL!!!!

she can't outshine da hewo

[suse]

at least to me, there was a definite and obvious slide into immaturity iwth the departure of gekko and rick.

boosting a weak show with boobs is a sign of the writing lacking

and yeah, IIRC, tptb at the time knew that anise was a bad idea and, i think, were quite gleeful to say 'see, told ya so' to cohen.

but they didn't learn their lesson, cause they repeated it again

suse

[Melora]

and why did anise not last long???

fans hated her and hated her attitude thus, after her initial 3 eps run, she was dropped

At DragonCon this last year, Vanessa Angel (who is very lovely in person) said that she was originally supposed to be on the show for more than three episodes in Season 4. She was also supposed to become a regular member of the cast in Season 5. She said they wanted to create a love triangle between Jack/Sam and Anise.

But then she got pregnant and couldn't do the show. I always thought Anise never returned b/c of the fans didn't like the character (and that might have been part of it too). I do have to wonder if TPTB would have carried out the original plan if she had not gotten pregnant or if it was just a convenient excuse not to bring her back.

Like you've said, I don't think the writers were too happy to have the character forced on them by MGM.

It also makes me wonder about what changed between Season 4 and Season 9/10. If TPTB didn't really want a sexy female alien character back in Season 4, why were they so intent on adding one to the team in Season 9/10?

Maybe it was b/c it was their decision, not MGM's or SciFi's.

[suse]

Snippet from a recent R Cooper interview:

"Once again, Mitchell gets put through the ringer. Has it become a guilty pleasure to watch him take some serious lumps?

He is just very good at it. There is something about seeing a hero get the crap beat out of him and survive. The harder the journey for the hero, the more you like him in the end. Ben Browder happens to be very good at having the crap beat out of him."

Jeepers this bolded part seems so gratuitous and forced from RC, he strikes me as a guy who thinks if he says something enough it'll miraculously come true sort of like this "see, if we beat him up enough you WILL like him". A lot of what I see and read around various places is people tired of seeing CM being beat up all the time - seems that is all he is good for and that's the "role" they gave BB as CM - he clearly didn't fit into the team any other way so he is the guy that gets beat up.

Ben even said that that's Mitchell's role to fill on the team.

The thing is the physical 'get the crap beat out of him and survive' isn't what makes you like the character (or not). Yeah, the survival bit is what's important, but whump for the sake of whump masquerading as character development? Er, not no much.

"the hero?" Excuse me? Da hewo got an owie? Awwe. Poowr widdle baby...

They had to owie him to get him onto SG-1, give him a CMoH to cement his worthiness as they gave him no relevent experience, move Sam away so he had a clear shot oh yeah, *that* worked like a charm for the team lead position, then as character development get him beat up a lot. Or emote because he was stupid/hotheaded enough to get a fellow officer terminally wounded - but forgive him because that's the way he (Mitchell) is. Well they had to develop him fast as they didn't much during the much vaunted <<gag>> S9 "mini-series" IMO there was no development.

He was much ignored during the beginning of S9 so they could make much of their "sexy", "fun" slaving, "whorelette"-ing, confidence artist. Yeah, she's so good at playing the part of someone you can have confidence in that in a few hours in the company of the type of person that would be a most likely target she manages to literally get herself burned alive because she can't keep her (somewhat accurate) opinion to herself. Real professional there. /sarcasm

Oy.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


suse

[jasminaGo]

Another time when TPTB wanted the fans to know something, was agian in Midway. There was some negative reaction to Sam taking command, so they had Teal'c say how she was extremly well accepted by everyone there, just to show Atlantis fans that it was OK. I'm a huge Sam fan, but that scene made me cringe.

Spoiler:

I wanted to see a scene at the end where Ronon is akwardly trying to say that Sam was right, he can learn a lot from Teal'c and they reach some kind of small understanding for the future. Instead they made Ronon act like a hormonal teenager, who doesn't give a damn about what Sam thinks, which kinda destroyed what Teal'c said in the first place.

[Skydiver]

It also makes me wonder about what changed between Season 4 and Season 9/10. If TPTB didn't really want a sexy female alien character back in Season 4, why were they so intent on adding one to the team in Season 9/10?

gekko left and coop was given teh keys. and he either didn't have the ability to tell scifi to bugger off (and that changed too, showtime to scifi) or he agreed with them and thought it'd be fun to have a sexy alien prancing around all expectedly scantily clad and pretty