S10: Critique & Contemplation

[ReganX]

I've been thinking about this over the past few days myself and have come to the same depressing conclusion. TPTB have locked themselves into so many bad choices and decisions in plot and character in S9 that I just don't think it's possible for them to logically correct them if they do realise they've made a mistake, as they seem to be acknowledging here with the leadership question. Not in a single season anyway.

They certainly dug themselves into a hole with the leadership issue. It seems like they tried to backpedal with the 'co-command' idea, but I don't think that worked out.

In the Who Should Lead SG-1 Poll, Sam has more than twice as many votes as Cameron.

It would be possible to correct that situation, either by saying that Sam was on temporary assignment to Area 51 and is now back to officially retake command or perhaps, as it has been suggested that it would be unfair to demote Mitchell, she could be promoted to full colonel.

Unfortunately, while fans of Ben Browder and Cameron Mitchell might not have had any objection to him not being in command if he had been introduced as an officer serving under Sam's command, there would be people who would object to that command being taken away from him now that he has it.

TPTB have managed to back themselves into a corner as far as the leadership issue is concerned and they aren't going to be able to get out of it without angering people.

I'm now wondering if TPTB aren't desperately thinking that just giving up and declaring S9 was all a bad dream wouldn't be the easiest way out of the hole they've dug for themselves after all.

Works for me.

[ReganX]

Didn't he die in homage to Luke's gunner, Dak, in Empire?

Did he? Thanks.

Years before Cameron was ever invented, one of my fanfic OCs got an early promotion (to Captain) for political reasons and because she looked good on newspaper covers and saved the day in a highly-publicised incident outside the SGC. She's been slightly uneasy in the rank ever since because she knows that she got promoted for the wrong reasons and, even if she has the stuff, everyone else gets to know it too.

If the Stargate had become public knowledge through the battle over the Antarctic and Cameron held up as the hero of the hour, I could buy a political motivation behind his lauding (although possibly not the CMH, which - as has been pointed out - is not given for doing your job). This could then work well if he is portrayed as being uncertain in his command and ultimately deferring to the more experienced team members.

Only he isn't and he doesn't.

Like Weir being briefly assigned to command the SGC because the President thought that she would be a better face than a military leader when/if the Stargate Program became public knowledge?

[Skydiver]

Were any of the other people piloting the F-302s given the Congressional Medal of Honor or offered postings of their choice?

There was another pilot in the F-302 with Mitchell, what happened to him?

All of them risked their lives flying against Anubis, yet Cameron is the one that everybody owes everything to. Why? Because he was injured?

pretty much.

He did his job and, like so many people that i know, skate to a cushy and easy position because of who he knows, not because he's qualified in any way.

the CMOH being awarded to cam is an insult to every other person who's won it. but it was part of the poorly researched hard sell of Cam as the Marty Sue of the show.

It would have taken too long to actually make a believable character, so maybe they read some fanfic - BAD fanfic - and used that to create him.

The only reason cam't leading SG1 is because he's male. He has no qualifications to lead a team of people with 9+ years of experience other than having the right friends and kissing tush

so these writers create a character that's a joke and wonder why folks aren't lining up to say how great he is? I've seen too many times where the incompetant man - with the right friends - gets the high paying job while the competant female gets treated like crud cause, well you know *wink, wink, nudge nudge*

What amazes me is that these boys are so out of touch with the world that they can't see just how much they've messed things up

[ReganX]

the CMOH being awarded to cam is an insult to every other person who's won it. but it was part of the poorly researched hard sell of Cam as the Marty Sue of the show.

Perhaps we should be grateful that the show isn't set in the Roman Republic. The writers would probably have given him the Civic Crown.

Spoiler:

Awarded to men who saved the lives of fellow soldiers, and held the ground upon which he did this for the remainder of the engagement. In Sulla's time, it came with an automatic seat in the Senate.

Whoever was given the corona civica had to wear it whenever they appeared in public and everybody, even senior officials, had to applaud them.

The only reason cam't leading SG1 is because he's male. He has no qualifications to lead a team of people with 9+ years of experience other than having the right friends and kissing tush

so these writers create a character that's a joke and wonder why folks aren't lining up to say how great he is? I've seen too many times where the incompetant man - with the right friends - gets the high paying job while the competant female gets treated like crud cause, well you know *wink, wink, nudge nudge*

It's very insulting to the female viewers, and I imagine that there are a lot of male viewers who aren't impressed either.

In Sam, TPTB created an amazing, intelligent, competent and resourceful character. I wonder whose bright idea it was to shove her into the background so they could ooh and aah over their shiny new Marty Stu and why they ever thought that the viewers would follow their example.

What amazes me is that these boys are so out of touch with the world that they can't see just how much they've messed things up

It's a pity they don't visit this thread, or the Anti-Season Nine one. I've seen good ideas on both.

[LaCroix]

There is one thought that's running around my head right now. Well three wrapped around one.

I understand why Bridge and Skiffy wanting RDA to make a few apperences in
SG-1 and SGA given the ratings in S9. But why would Sony accept the terms.
The last time I'd checked, Sony was only intrerest is DVD sales. Have the pre-
orders for S9 Domestic sales gone down? What about international sales?

[Formerhost]

There is one thought that's running around my head right now. Well three wrapped around one.

I understand why Bridge and Skiffy wanting RDA to make a few apperences in
SG-1 and SGA given the ratings in S9. But why would Sony accept the terms.
The last time I'd checked, Sony was only intrerest is DVD sales. Have the pre-
orders for S9 Domestic sales gone down? What about international sales?

season 9 vol. 1

10th place in the TOP 10 at www.sendit.com
Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank: 115
6th place at www.bensonsworld.co.uk in their TOP 100

[chocdoc]

season 9 vol. 1

10th place in the TOP 10 at www.sendit.com
Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank: 115
6th place at www.bensonsworld.co.uk in their TOP 100

Wow, the Amazon.co.uk is so low. That doesn't look good. I know season 8 did extremely well.

(I also saw that in the UK, most of the season 9 episodes including the last two of the season didn't even make in the top 10 ratings. That is very unusual--I think all of season 8 episodes did make it in the top ten.)

On Amazon.com in general, season 8 did great. They'll report season 9 on Scifi Wire. My guess is, season 9 won't do as well in sales, but you never know.

[Skydiver]

Have the pre-
orders for S9 Domestic sales gone down? What about international sales?

i for one ain't wasting money on them.

up until this year, i used to buy the more expensive region 2 discs because i didn't want to wait for hte us boxed set

Not gonna do that. There's not enough decent material in season 9 to justify 25 dollars a disc.

i'll just pick the s9 set up previewed sometime next year

[Formerhost]

Wow, the Amazon.co.uk is so low. That doesn't look good. I know season 8 did extremely well.

(I also saw that in the UK, most of the season 9 episodes including the last two of the season didn't even make in the top 10 ratings. That is very unusual--I think all of season 8 episodes did make it in the top ten.)

On Amazon.com in general, season 8 did great. They'll report season 9 on Scifi Wire. My guess is, season 9 won't do as well in sales, but you never know.

Well, I guess less people are buying single volumes, especially that in previous years (up to season 8) they didn't include audio commentaries. They used to add them for the whole season boxset release. People probably are not aware that it has changed now and the commentaries are now included in single volumes (see my transcript of Avalon pts. 1 & 2 commentary in season 9 thread ) and they're waiting for the whole season 9 release.

[The Signal]

Plus you will probably find people have finally worked out that forking out £120 for a season is pointless when if you wait it is £45

[chocdoc]

Well, I guess less people are buying single volumes, especially that in previous years (up to season 8) they didn't include audio commentaries. They used to add them for the whole season boxset release. People probably are not aware that it has changed now and the commentaries are now included in single volumes (see my transcript of Avalon pts. 1 & 2 commentary in season 9 thread ) and they're waiting for the whole season 9 release.

Could be. The whole boxset sales will make a better comparison. The box set for season 8 did extremely well. So yeah, a better comparison for down the road.

[Zoser]

You're right about the scene doing Cameron's character more harm than good.

As it stands, I consider Cameron an annoying, over-enthusiastic, immature idiot whose presence on SG-1 makes me fear for the safety of Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and the galaxy.

If TPTB see fit to add whiner to the list, Cameron stands an excellent chance of ousting Kinsey from his long-held position as my most hated character.

If they attempt to make out that Sam, Daniel and Teal'c are the ones in the wrong and that they (and we) should all stand in awe of the wonder that is Mitchell and that they should follow the every command of their heroic leader I will be able to abandon all hope of any decent characterization for Cameron.

The scene could lead to some maturing for the character if, instead of patting him on the head, wiping his nose and tut-tutting about how nasty Sam, Daniel and Teal’c are being to him, Landry sits Cameron down and asks him straight out who he thinks the problem is; the three people who have been an effective team and who have worked well together for years or their supposed leader?

Cameron needs a wake-up call, pronto. Being a member of SG-1 is not a game and if he is incapable of seeing this, then the sooner he resigns, the better for all concerned.

I could just hear O'Neill counseling Cam now - 'Grow a pair and take command!'

[Zoser]

yeah, i'm afraid that it will come off as 'why doesn't every one wuv me???????' wibble, wibble

stop trying to verbally convince me that he's great and grand and super, SHOW ME

Lose colonel goofball and replace him with a competant air force officer who has the intelligence to pour water out of his boot

CAmeron, as he's largely been written, is little more than Felger with better hair. He's lost in the hero worship, is impulsive and shows definite lapses in judgement. he's endangered his team - you know which is kinda the opposite of what he's supposed to to - to indulge his own fantasies.

Cameron - as he is written most of the time - is not a good leader. and no amount of whining and moaning will change that

All it does is enforce to me the idea that Cameron is like a lot of folks that i have where i work with....folks whose only qualifications for their job is who they know, not what they know. And 'friends of' people like this do little more than abuse (not physicaly) and ride on the coat tails of the qualified folks who are treated like crud but used to make the 'friend of' look good while they get ignored.

That's another reason i don't care for him being the leader. He's too much like what i have to deal with on a daily basis...incompetance rising over quality based solely on friendships

You made me laugh out loud!

[ReganX]

I could just hear O'Neill counseling Cam now - 'Grow a pair and take command!'

Do you really think that, after reading reports of Cameron's antics since he joined the SGC, Jack would ever want to entrust his friends to his leadership?

Maybe he could tell him that what he should do is be really quiet and unobtrusive and never suggest a course of action unless they ask nicely, "so that they'll know what they're missing."

[prion]

It's very insulting to the female viewers, and I imagine that there are a lot of male viewers who aren't impressed either.

In Sam, TPTB created an amazing, intelligent, competent and resourceful character. I wonder whose bright idea it was to shove her into the background so they could ooh and aah over their shiny new Marty Stu and why they ever thought that the viewers would follow their example.

It's a pity they don't visit this thread, or the Anti-Season Nine one. I've seen good ideas on both.[/QUOTE]

Well, as a female, I'm going to argue the point. The way Sam has been written, unfortunately, she is not the best leader. She bends too much to emotion (because this is how the male writers deal with emotions). She's hte person who goes "we can't leave him (teal'c) down there" when he's being tortured but Jack says they must. When it comes to science, she's decisive and brilliant, but when it comes to tactical maneuvers, the writers haven't given her the same polish.

Actually, the writers's Marty Stu (sic Sue) is actually Felger, didn't you know??