S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Mandysg1]

with sam in Insiders i think it was, you know, i can see blaming landry,but also, this is sam, the writer of viruses and the gate dialing code...and she couldn't booby trap those addresses? She couldn't have downloaded bad ones from the 'forbidden' list?

not only did others enable her but she didn't really work that hard to help herself either. even if what she was doing was doomed to fail, she should have at least tried

but they couldn't do that. cause they needed baal to get the addys so sam was teh plot device to make it happen

Yea, there's nothing like character assassination to get to your plot device

which everyone has had happen to their characters.

[Vale_Sg1]

I think it's okay because I am rather pro season 9 and 10, but there are definately some things I need to whine about and you just can't do it in threads where the posters think gold flew out of everyone's butt's in 9 and 10 because it was just so perfect.

I agree. I pretty much enjoyed S9 and S10 (not all of S9...I just watched the Vala episodes *coughs*), but that was because I wasn't expecting anything from them, after the S/J fiasco of S8, and it had a lot to do with me getting hooked on Farscape and appreciating the new actors more than I initially thought.

Regarding the abuse topic, (and I haven't quite figured out the mulitquote thingie, so forgive me), some have brought up how Vala's attitude toward Daniel was sexual harassment and it is double standard to be angry only Tomin for his wifebeating. Now this I totally agree with. It did get annoying to see that keep happening, and I wish they weren't so heavy handed about it. I worked for PU and maybe the mini-series thingie at the beginning of 9 because Vala was only a guest at that point. I felt bad for Daniel, but figured she was the new 'Anise' or whatever that Tok'ra ho's name was.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. I remember some heavy comments from her (not as bad as Larrin's in SGA, though), but I don't remember anything too bad in S10.

Oh, I had completely forgotten about Anise *shudders at thoughts of bad clothes and bad acting*

Then they did some weird things with her characterization, where she would be flirty at one point, and like ditzy girl/little girl the next. I had no idea where they were going with her! And let's not mention the hairdryer thing, I have banished it from my brain.

They had no idea where they were going with her themselves. They clearly stated that with 40 episodes to write, they didn't have much time to develop the character from the sketch it was in PU. I believe Cooper was in charge of the character, but basically everyone did what they wanted with her. M&M wrote the obnoxious Arlos scene (and how much of a coincidence do you think it was that the "explaining" scene CB asked for ended up on the cutting room floor?).
The hairdryer is in the "worst moments of SG1" top 10.

And I think if she hadn't been there constantly, we wouldn't have had to deal with this very angry all-the-time Daniel. I don't agree with a lot of y'all about the action jackson thing because I saw Daniel as more into the action part of scenes way back in seasons 4 and 5. But I do agree that he was cranky and I feel that it was because they had Vala constantly harassing him. If they played that a little different, I think I would have really liked it.

Daniel in S9 and S10 was almost an entirely different character. Cranky, dismissive, detached, a little too trigger-happy for someone who started out as a mild, anti-military archaeologist. Evolution is okay, but this is too much.

When it was on, I was just so happy to see someone showing an interest in him again (after so many dropped chances with Sarah and a few guests like Catherine's neice I think it was and that a few of the ambassadors and Daniel and Weir don't make fun of me, I thought they'd be cute together) that I think it didn't hit me that the teasing was hurting him at first.

You're not alone, I even wrote a Daniel/Weir

[ReganX]

with sam in Insiders i think it was, you know, i can see blaming landry,but also, this is sam, the writer of viruses and the gate dialing code...and she couldn't booby trap those addresses? She couldn't have downloaded bad ones from the 'forbidden' list?

not only did others enable her but she didn't really work that hard to help herself either. even if what she was doing was doomed to fail, she should have at least tried

And squander a few extra precious seconds of screentime on a character who isn't Vaniel?! Sky! What are you thinking?!

Seriously, it defies belief that the SGC wouldn't have a contingency list of false/crappy addresses prepared for that eventuality.

[captain jake]

Yea, there's nothing like character assassination to get to your plot device

which everyone has had happen to their characters.

Why do you think TPTB do that?

[Skydiver]

i think they cared more about the story than the characters

and, perhaps pressed for time, didn't stop to thikn out ways to make the story work with the characters IN character, so just made the characters do whatever it took to make the story work

[jckfan55]

with sam in Insiders i think it was, you know, i can see blaming landry,but also, this is sam, the writer of viruses and the gate dialing code...and she couldn't booby trap those addresses? She couldn't have downloaded bad ones from the 'forbidden' list?

not only did others enable her but she didn't really work that hard to help herself either. even if what she was doing was doomed to fail, she should have at least tried
but they couldn't do that. cause they needed baal to get the addys so sam was teh plot device to make it happen

Exactly. The Sam we know would have tried. And as you say they still could have let Ba'al escape. But with a little effort, they didn't have to diminish Sam to do it. I can see her not letting them kill Barrett for nothing, but not being quite so helpless. Sam is anything but helpless.

I tried a story this summer trying to come up with a solution to that issue. It was fun to see what I could come up, though I make no claims at fiction writing talent.

[jckfan55]

I


They had no idea where they were going with her themselves. They clearly stated that with 40 episodes to write, they didn't have much time to develop the character from the sketch it was in PU. I believe Cooper was in charge of the character, but basically everyone did what they wanted with her. M&M wrote the obnoxious Arlos scene (and how much of a coincidence do you think it was that the "explaining" scene CB asked for ended up on the cutting room floor?).

I'm drawing a blank. maybe I've blocked it. What scene?

The hairdryer is in the "worst moments of SG1" top 10.

I bet we could have some fun coming up with such a list.

[JessM]

I'm drawing a blank. maybe I've blocked it. What scene?

Ties that Bind... Arlos was the guy Vala was supposed to have had some relationship with to get some kind of device or other. It totally escapes me (I think I've blocked it in part too), but from what I remember he was the first one they visited during that "scavenger hunt" she sent Daniel and Cam on.

I bet we could have some fun coming up with such a list.

I know I could

I've already got the Vaniel scenes (especially that first one) and the Asgard suicide both from Unending on my list.. along with that hairdryer thingy from Quest Pt. 1.

[Vale_Sg1]

I'm drawing a blank. maybe I've blocked it. What scene?

JessM got it right. In Ties that Bind, Daniel and Mitchell visit the man Vala stole the bracelets from too see if they can get any help in neutralizing their binding effect. Arlos mentions having had a relationship with Vala, and he gets kind of graphic in his description (might I say, EWWW).

I bet we could have some fun coming up with such a list.

We should do that. If it works here, I'll suggest the same game to the fellow lemmings.

[Skydiver]

arlos is that squirmy little guy (wallace shawn. 'inconceivale' dude from Princess bride) that insinuated he and vala had sex. the explanation scene is where vala refuted his insinuation. they took that out, thus making vala look....well not so nice.

Kinda like they let sam look like a pedophile with their 'you were intimate' suggestion by landry about her and orlin when orlin cameback as a little kid

Make the character look silly just to get a silly joke

[Rogue]

I'm drawing a blank. maybe I've blocked it. What scene?



I bet we could have some fun coming up with such a list.

Mitchell popping the wheelie in Memento Mori.

[Mandysg1]

Why do you think TPTB do that?

I can't speak for TPTB, nor would I try, all I can, and have done is comment on what I've seen on screen.

[captain jake]

I can't speak for TPTB, nor would I try, all I can, and have done is comment on what I've seen on screen.

But wouldn't you agree that it is in the best interest of the writer's and directors to keep the fan's happy? I mean happy fans mean better ratings, which translates into more money for them. This is their job it's what they do for a living, couldn't a lot of the characters dying off be simply contributed to actors wanting to leave the show. As for the exceptions, don't you think that the writers had a good reason to cut them out. I mean if they didn't think it would benefit them financially than they wouldn't do it. Would they... And if it benefited them financially that would mean that they could do the show for longer, which in turn would make fans happy. The funny thing is that the fans are already happy because the writers did what the audience wanted.

Or maybe those writers are evil people who want to destroy the lives of all Stargate fans...

[suse]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this. I remember some heavy comments from her (not as bad as Larrin's in SGA, though), but I don't remember anything too bad in S10.

"Let's make babies."
Her 2nd scene: Something about being pregnant and Daniel being one of 10 men who could be the father.

To be honest I've wiped as much of S9 Vala from my brain as possible. It's the only way I could even try to appreciate her in S10. And only suffered watching the eps once so only have a a bad taste and vague recollections.

They had no idea where they were going with her themselves. They clearly stated that with 40 episodes to write, they didn't have much time to develop the character from the sketch it was in PU. I believe Cooper was in charge of the character, but basically everyone did what they wanted with her. M&M wrote the obnoxious Arlos scene (and how much of a coincidence do you think it was that the "explaining" scene CB asked for ended up on the cutting room floor?).

Was this the 'explaining scene' they wrote in to show that Vala really wasn't a 'whorelette'? Too bad it was cut. Though the sk*nk stripe dye was cast for me anyway at that point anyway.

That being said... if they couldn't take the time to write the character properly they needed to hire more writers, not try to save money (supposedly for SFX) and do a crappy job with the characters. This is what the denizens of this thread were talking about when the shows were airing. 40 eps with almost no writing/directing team growth. Duh! It's not rocket science that what happened... happened. They had no time to fix in writing because the writers were writing too many eps each (see Martin Gero's early SGA s4 interview)or in filming or in post production because the directors were running eps back to back and didn't have time to tweak where it was needed. I still can't believe they thought we would be too dumb to notice the lack in that category.

The hairdryer is in the "worst moments of SG1" top 10.

The silver lining was getting to yell "Spaceballs homage!!" then at the whole idea.

Daniel in S9 and S10 was almost an entirely different character. Cranky, dismissive, detached, a little too trigger-happy for someone who started out as a mild, anti-military archaeologist. Evolution is okay, but this is too much.

Shanks seemed pretty excited that Daniel was a "mini-RDA".

suse

[jckfan55]

Ties that Bind... Arlos was the guy Vala was supposed to have had some relationship with to get some kind of device or other. It totally escapes me (I think I've blocked it in part too), but from what I remember he was the first one they visited during that "scavenger hunt" she sent Daniel and Cam on.

yep, I blocked it. I haven't watched it since it first aired. Positively painful.