S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

if anyone knew/suspected, it'd be the 'inner circle' of coop, the writers and brad, and i'm not even sure if too many of the writers had any real idea

the more people that knwo, the more mouths that can say something they shouldn't

as to writing the new incarnation, what do yu think they've been doing?????

Farcegate SG-1 has been what they've been writing since s7, but have really cranked up their efforts the past season and a half

they just weren't allowed to take the honorable way out and rebrand it so that skiffy could have their record...a record that's being touted in the ad right above this box - not skiffy's ad but stargatesg1.com's

'stargate sg-1: the longest running show in scifi history blasts into season 9'

course, wasn't x-files touted the same way during its last forgettable season?

[grasshopper64]

The fact that RDA was slotted to guest star on Atlantis for the Mid-season final and not SG-1’s tells me where they were trying to pull fans in.

I think they had a pretty good idea this was most likely going to be SG-1’s last season.

Exactly, and it makes perfect sense now why they had him doing 3 SGA to just 2 SG1 eps, in fact if you ignore 200 it's just 1 proper SG1 ep.....

Anyway has anyone seen any ratings for The Quest/The Return? Don't they normally come out on Wednesday? Just curious to see if RDA's appearance did push it up a bit...

[Crow T. Robot]

I'm sure that the TPTB had to have known this. Does anyone remember Alex Levine's blog as of March 2006 where he does mention problems with ratings.

I agree I honestly think the show was put on notice to get the ratings up probably about mid-9.

I’m going to get smacked for saying this but I think Atlantis is still on notice and that’s why we’re seeing this huge push this season. RDA during the mid-season final. The rumors they’re killing a major character.

Shows ‘ratings grab’ to me.

[Crow T. Robot]

Anyway has anyone seen any ratings for The Quest/The Return? Don't they normally come out on Wednesday? Just curious to see if RDA's appearance did push it up a bit...

They haven’t been posted yet.

I’m not taking that as promising news.

[LaCroix]

I agree I honestly think the show was put on notice to get the ratings up probably about mid-9.

I’m going to get smacked for saying this but I think Atlantis is still on notice and that’s why we’re seeing this huge push this season. RDA during the mid-season final. The rumors they’re killing a major character.

Shows ‘ratings grab’ to me.

I have to admit that's maybe true after checking the ratings for The Fourth Horesman Pt.1.

It's more than likely too about Atl. their ratings have been slightly higher then SG-1. RDA is a big draw for either show, but personaly I'd rather see him on SG-1. But that's just me. I also hope the rumors are just that, rumors.

[Descent]

Better be rumors. The last thing the franchise needs right now is more screw ups.

[AGateFan]

I'm sure that the TPTB had to have known this. Does anyone remember Alex Levine's blog as of March 2006 where he does mention problems with
ratings. I did and remember posting this in The Stargate Eulogy thread.

ETA: I had to do a little searching for this and found it.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....&postcount=312

Stargate Eulogy thread.......ahhhhh I loved that thread.... good times.....good times....

[ToasterOnFire]

I’m going to get smacked for saying this but I think Atlantis is still on notice and that’s why we’re seeing this huge push this season. RDA during the mid-season final. The rumors they’re killing a major character. Shows ‘ratings grab’ to me.

Oh, I think Atlantis is potentially in trouble as well, which is a damn shame considering how TPTB have finally gotten their act in gear for season 3. No SG1 lead-in plus a possible lack of BSG anchor = lower ratings next season, IMO. However, since Atlantis is cheaper to produce than SG1 it may last several seasons more with ratings this low or even lower.

I don't think that killing off a main character on Atlantis would be a ratings grabber though. The big attempt at a ratings boost would come afterwards when/if they stick someone from SG1 in their place...a possibility I'm certainly not looking forward to.

[Flowerbud]

I agree. I think SGA is also on thin ice. Its ratings have been lower this year. Although the show has been renewed, I suspect if its ratings don't improve for the second half of this season, it will only have a few episodes in season 4 to prove its worth before SciFi cancels it. This is all just conjecture on my part, but, I honestly don't think it has several more seasons. It is a different television environment with a lot more competitive, better written shows. SciFi probably has a lot of quality shows to pick from. There are a lot of very good writers/producers out there and audiences are more sophisticated.


RANT:
TPTB just neglected the show last season or were so overworked they put out of half-baked, poorly thought out episodes. The whole wraith enzyme arc was just awful. Not only did it make our heroes seem like war criminals, but also incredibly stupid. They dummified the characters. Sheppard became this intergalactic gigolo. Rodney became a whiny coward. Weir suddenly dropped all her ideals and pursued xenocide with no sense of anguish, confusion or guilt. It was character deconstruction for no apparent purpose and I don't know if the writers have the skill to make the characters believable and likeable again. As a S/W shipper, I hated how they played different shipper groups against each other. Why don't they respect or like their audience?

[Rogue]

I agree. I think SGA is also on thin ice. Its ratings have been lower this year. Although the show has been renewed, I suspect if its ratings don't improve for the second half of this season, it will only have a few episodes in season 4 to prove its worth before SciFi cancels it. This is all just conjecture on my part, but, I honestly don't think it has several more seasons. It is a different television environment with a lot more competitive, better written shows. SciFi probably has a lot of quality shows to pick from. There are a lot of very good writers/producers out there and audiences are more sophisticated.


RANT:
TPTB just neglected the show last season or were so overworked they put out of half-baked, poorly thought out episodes. The whole wraith enzyme arc was just awful. Not only did it make our heroes seem like war criminals, but also incredibly stupid. They dummified the characters. Sheppard became this intergalactic gigolo. Rodney became a whiny coward. Weir suddenly dropped all her ideals and pursued xenocide with no sense of anguish, confusion or guilt. It was character deconstruction for no apparent purpose and I don't know if the writers have the skill to make the characters believable and likeable again. As a S/W shipper, I hated how they played different shipper groups against each other. Why don't they respect or like their audience?

I guess their handy work just isn't limited to SG-1.

IMO, shipping on this show is a lost cause. I shipped for Sam/Jack for years, got nothing but grief to show for it.

[Crow T. Robot]

I don't think that killing off a main character on Atlantis would be a ratings grabber though. The big attempt at a ratings boost would come afterwards when/if they stick someone from SG1 in their place...a possibility I'm certainly not looking forward to.

Agreed. When their trying bringing in actresses and actors from other hit Sci Fi shows that implies their trying to bring in blood ratings wise too.

You got to wonder who would they transplant over from SG-1? I mean which character would pull in a new audience that’s not already tuning in? By the numbers it looks like most people that was SG-1 watch Atlantis too. Pull any of existing SG-1 characters over, short of RDA who might bring some fans back, and you are not gaining anything except a bigger payroll.

And I wouldn’t be looking forward to them bring a character over either. Any SG-1 that’s brought over most likely means a show retool (gee look at what a retool did for SG-1) and/or phasing or diminished role for already existing SGA characters. Take Daniel for instance. You bring him over and Elizabeth and Rodney are most likely going to lose because of it since they do essentially what is Daniel’s function.

[Crow T. Robot]

RANT:
TPTB just neglected the show last season or were so overworked they put out of half-baked, poorly thought out episodes. The whole wraith enzyme arc was just awful. Not only did it make our heroes seem like war criminals, but also incredibly stupid. They dummified the characters. Sheppard became this intergalactic gigolo. Rodney became a whiny coward. Weir suddenly dropped all her ideals and pursued xenocide with no sense of anguish, confusion or guilt. It was character deconstruction for no apparent purpose and I don't know if the writers have the skill to make the characters believable and likeable again. As a S/W shipper, I hated how they played different shipper groups against each other. Why don't they respect or like their audience?

I think you highlighted the largest problem and the underlying theme of most fans complaints.

1) They have lost touch with what makes ‘Star Gate’ STAR GATE. Season 2 I walked away with the impression they were trying to imitate BSG and failed miserably at it. They painted their characters as dirtier and forgot what drew fans in to Star Gate in the first place. That being: Despite how the circumstances and the internal pressures went to h*ll our heroes at the end of the day were the good guys.

2) The sacrificing of characterization for plot holes. Don’t get me going about them making Shepard a man whore okay? You’d think after Brief Candle they’d have an iron set rule about keeping it in their pants on away missions.

They haven’t really been writing Vala (Am I suppose to believe this woman was the same one that took a ship by herself?), Landry (They put the front line defense of Earth in this morons hands? God help us!) And Cam (How the h*ll did this guy make it to Lt. Colonel?) either.

[Crow T. Robot]

I guess their handy work just isn't limited to SG-1.

Oh no! They did a wonderful job on season 2 of Atlantis.

I can’t tell if it’s because of staff stretched too thin and lack of focus or if TPTB lost touch with their fan base. But no, the problems we’ve seeing on SG-1 aren’t contained to SG-1.

One reason why people point out it’s got to be some other outside factor besides the writing for the ratings decline of SG-1 because Atlantis is down too. They really should take a really good look at season 2 of SGA. Besides one or two stand out episodes the writing and characterizations as a whole was terrible.

[Flowerbud]

I guess their handy work just isn't limited to SG-1.

IMO, shipping on this show is a lost cause. I shipped for Sam/Jack for years, got nothing but grief to show for it.

I was hoping the writers would do a better job with only one show to write for, but I think, in general, they've lost their way. I liked Sam/Jack and I was certain they would have some sort of resolution in Season 9 now that Sam and Jack were not on the same team or department. It just needed to be a few lines with Sam on the telephone talking to Jack saying she was looking forward to having dinner with him or sorry, Jack it just isn't working out, you waited too long. They could have kept it low-key and matter-of-fact and satisfied the shippers and anti-shippers. But RCC and friends didn't even address the issue which was bizarre. The Sam/Jack thread on GateWorld has a million views on it! Didn't they have a clue that the S/J shippers were a big chunk of their audience and they would be alienating them and thereby, losing ratings. Then, I saw the 200 episode and yeesh, it's pretty clear that the writers/producers have nothing but disdain for ship.

Their current strategy on SGA of playing different ships off each other and keeping all the different shipper groups in tension is going to backfire. Endlessly prolonged UST becomes boring and even more, irritating. The positive reinforcement becomes negative reinforcement and rats will avoid the stimuli. Also, it is damaging to the characters. The audience needs to see a narrative of the characters' growth and development.

[Flowerbud]

I think you highlighted the largest problem and the underlying theme of most fans complaints.

1) They have lost touch with what makes ‘Star Gate’ STAR GATE. Season 2 I walked away with the impression they were trying to imitate BSG and failed miserably at it. They painted their characters as dirtier and forgot what drew fans in to Star Gate in the first place. That being: Despite how the circumstances and the internal pressures went to h*ll our heroes at the end of the day were the good guys.

2) The sacrificing of characterization for plot holes. Don’t get me going about them making Shepard a man whore okay? You’d think after Brief Candle they’d have an iron set rule about keeping it in their pants on away missions.

They haven’t really been writing Vala (Am I suppose to believe this woman was the same one that took a ship by herself?), Landry (They put the front line defense of Earth in this morons hands? God help us!) And Cam (How the h*ll did this guy make it to Lt. Colonel?) either.

That's a very interesting point about them trying to emulate BSG. TPTB were wildly ambitious if they thought they could pull that off. I wonder if they feel some embarrassment about writing for Stargate? Maybe that's the reason for all the changes in Season 9. I think SG-1 seasons 1-7 were very good and something to feel proud of. I caught onto SG-1 watching the reruns on the Sci-Fi channel.

Science fiction television audiences are very loyal viewers and TPTB took that for granted. I'm a big fan of the Joss Whedon shows and BSG. I have trust in the writers that integrity of the characters will not be tampered with for cheap laughs or propelling the plot in a certain direction. If something significant happens to a character, there are emotional consequences not only for the character but how the other characters relate to him or her. This gives the show an emotional vibrancy and allows the audience to take the characters seriously and want to continue to follow their stories.

Unfortunately, TPTB have turned this on its head and expect audiences to care about plot over characters. For example,

Spoiler:

the replicators are coming to Atlantis and our crew was kicked out because the former owners, the Ancients, returned

. I don't feel any sense of urgency or worry because I think the Atlantis crew has done more harm than good to the Pegasus galaxy and would be considered war criminals/imperialists by a lot of people. They basically came to the Pegasus galaxy to scrounge for Ancient technology and will pretty much do anything to get it. That's not very heroic. So, the writers have to create complex characters with a lot of depth if they want to deal with the moral questions at the heart of the show. Unfortunately, characterization became weaker and more inconsistent through Season 2. Even loyal audiences start to give up.