S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Rogue]

RE: Mitchell's creation and introduction...

1) the feeling that I get is that the new character was envisioned by 'some' of the PTB as a new Major Mitchell, a newbie to the Stargate program, and that Carter would be the team leader. Hence the hints that were given out ahead of time about the new character's initials being 'M.M.' A newbie to the Stargate program, someone fresh for the audience and fans, someone fresh for the writers to create and develop, someone for new fans to learn the Stargate with. Someone fresh and eager, perhaps a bit like Jonas in that respect, but I didn't see them creating a new Jonas - this was a chance to create an entirely new character. And that prospect should have been new and exciting.

2) Someone else (who knows how many) felt that the series either a) would fail with a female leading SG-1, and/or b) would fail without a lead actor with a bigger name than AT, MS or CJ, and/or c) someone decided that it would be cool to have BB as Male Lead of SG-1 to pull Stargate and Farscape together for marketing purposes (perhaps for pulling the fanbases together as well...?)

The character of Cameron Mitchell ended up being a mish-mash of both options 1 & 2. That is, BB was made the new male lead of the show, and his character was written as the new male leader of SG-1. They kept the attributes of his character that had him as a newbie to Stargate travel, while attempting to give his character long-term credibility (as to why he should be accepted as the main hero amongst a team of tried and true heroes) by writing him in as a CMOH-winner who was a squadron leader in the battle of Antarctica (from Lost City, one of the series most successful action-packed and heroic episodes).

They put in scenes where O'Neill symbolically hands over the show to him (when they are flying together and Mitchell takes the front seat and O'Neill takes the back seat). He's the new leader of the team and the show.

They showed him as a Stargate newbie when he 'pets the Stargate'. For a newbie junior member of the team that would have been a perfect scene. For someone who was to be the solid leader of the top SGC team, it simply underscored his ignorance and lack of credibility.

While trying to make him this fun, new, exciting, eager, fresh character that bubbled with enthusiasm and energy... they ended up creating something that just did *not* work for a character that was supposed to be so qualified and competent to lead the flagship team that he was supposed to be a better choice to lead the team than Carter.

At any rate, what I'm trying to say, is that I think Mitchell came out as a mish-mash because the purpose of the character either changed over time, or there was a disagreement in the vision and purpose of the character between various PTB.

For me, personally, I'm glad that Mitchell didn't work for so many viewers. I have nothing against BB, but the fact that the Stargate PTB, whoever they were, decided that Carter should be written out of command was reprehensible. And the fact that there wasn't more of a public outrage at this pisses me off to no end.

I do not remember any other TV series that I was so proud of as I was of Stargate as they approached to beginning of Season 9. It is so rare to get to see the female second of command naturally evolve into the leadership position of something like SG-1. And in Stargate SG-1, it was a natural evolution. The female lead could have had command of the main team of heroes without any major fanfare, without any earth-shattering trumpets or catclysms. It could have been along the line of 'she's a member of the team who happens to be a woman, rather than she is a woman who is a member of the team'. If the series made no big deal out of a 'woman being in charge', then the fact that Carter was female could have been no big deal. And yet it would have. Quietly, without any shouting, it would have made the statement that having a female in charge is OK, and can work just fine, and that no one has to get their 'knickers in a bunch'.

By writing Carter out of command, they did something wrenchingly ugly. Intentionally or not (that doesn't matter), they made a quiet statement that women aren't as appropriate for command and that men are much more suited - both to command of a unit such as SG-1, but also as the leads of action scifi shows.

Frankly, when they wrote Carter out of command, and wrote in a new Alpha Male Lead for the team and the show, I feel that things needed to 'not work'. We need to see that this type of thing isn't right. That it should *not* be validated. Solid ratings would have validated their decision to write the female out of command. Sadly, I'm glad that they did not get that validation.

Note: if all of the PTB always intended to go with option 2 (above), and never had any intentions of going with option 1, then I am even more deeply disappointed and disgusted.

I totally agree with you. Janeway was one of the reasons I liked Voyager, but once again, it showed that someday, hundreds of years from now, it will be ok to have a woman in charge. SG-1 had the opportunity to do that into todays setting.

But you know what really insulting, is that they didn't demote her for a more qualified person. In fact they put a far less qualified person in her place. A person who brings zero to the team.

[Skydiver]

that was perhaps the most galling...yeah, demote the 'little woman' for the lesser qualified male.

i still feel, had she been samuel carter, a man of color, who'd been demoted so that a lesser qualified white male could take his role, they wouldn't have done it. the sensitivities towards racism are there and they wouldn't have done it.

but sexism is so pervasive that people simply don't see it. they think that it's normal for the woman to be submissive to the male.

which fits in with how coop writes women in general. vala as daniel's girlfriend. adria lusting after daniel, both of thier wardrobes, or lack tehreof

his only idea of a story for sam is to give her a boyfriend, who's a total putz...but it's okay honey, i know you meant well when you broke national security. here have a cookie.

coop has done his best to demantle sam and has written/directed vala into a weak, submissive little thing...in unending...

Spoiler:

dude, if daniel tore into me the way he tore into vala, she should have knocked him across the stateroom. but it's ok, she just takes it so that the male can have this 'i was just losing myt emper, let me kiss it better' moment

coop eitehr has or refuses to see that he perpetrates misogyny. he keeps his female characters nice and cliche and submissive.

most of the damage done to sam has been done since s7 and coop took over. and it just got worse after greenburg and anderson left and coop had free rein to do whatever he wanted.

[AGateFan]

RE: Mitchell's creation and introduction...

1) the feeling that I get is that the new character was envisioned by 'some' of the PTB as a new Major Mitchell, a newbie to the Stargate program, and that Carter would be the team leader. Hence the hints that were given out ahead of time about the new character's initials being 'M.M.' A newbie to the Stargate program, someone fresh for the audience and fans, someone fresh for the writers to create and develop, someone for new fans to learn the Stargate with. Someone fresh and eager, perhaps a bit like Jonas in that respect, but I didn't see them creating a new Jonas - this was a chance to create an entirely new character. And that prospect should have been new and exciting.

2) Someone else (who knows how many) felt that the series either a) would fail with a female leading SG-1, and/or b) would fail without a lead actor with a bigger name than AT, MS or CJ, and/or c) someone decided that it would be cool to have BB as Male Lead of SG-1 to pull Stargate and Farscape together for marketing purposes (perhaps for pulling the fanbases together as well...?)

The character of Cameron Mitchell ended up being a mish-mash of both options 1 & 2. That is, BB was made the new male lead of the show, and his character was written as the new male leader of SG-1. They kept the attributes of his character that had him as a newbie to Stargate travel, while attempting to give his character long-term credibility (as to why he should be accepted as the main hero amongst a team of tried and true heroes) by writing him in as a CMOH-winner who was a squadron leader in the battle of Antarctica (from Lost City, one of the series most successful action-packed and heroic episodes).

They put in scenes where O'Neill symbolically hands over the show to him (when they are flying together and Mitchell takes the front seat and O'Neill takes the back seat). He's the new leader of the team and the show.

They showed him as a Stargate newbie when he 'pets the Stargate'. For a newbie junior member of the team that would have been a perfect scene. For someone who was to be the solid leader of the top SGC team, it simply underscored his ignorance and lack of credibility.

While trying to make him this fun, new, exciting, eager, fresh character that bubbled with enthusiasm and energy... they ended up creating something that just did *not* work for a character that was supposed to be so qualified and competent to lead the flagship team that he was supposed to be a better choice to lead the team than Carter.

At any rate, what I'm trying to say, is that I think Mitchell came out as a mish-mash because the purpose of the character either changed over time, or there was a disagreement in the vision and purpose of the character between various PTB.

For me, personally, I'm glad that Mitchell didn't work for so many viewers. I have nothing against BB, but the fact that the Stargate PTB, whoever they were, decided that Carter should be written out of command was reprehensible. And the fact that there wasn't more of a public outrage at this pisses me off to no end.

I do not remember any other TV series that I was so proud of as I was of Stargate as they approached to beginning of Season 9. It is so rare to get to see the female second of command naturally evolve into the leadership position of something like SG-1. And in Stargate SG-1, it was a natural evolution. The female lead could have had command of the main team of heroes without any major fanfare, without any earth-shattering trumpets or cataclysms. It could have been along the line of 'she's a member of the team who happens to be a woman, rather than she is a woman who is a member of the team'. If the series made no big deal out of a 'woman being in charge', then the fact that Carter was female could have been no big deal. And yet it would have. Quietly, without any shouting, it would have made the statement that having a female in charge is OK, and can work just fine, and that no one has to get their 'knickers in a bunch'.

By writing Carter out of command, they did something wrenchingly ugly. Intentionally or not (that doesn't matter), they made a quiet statement that women aren't as appropriate for command and that men are much more suited - both to command of a unit such as SG-1, but also as the leads of action scifi shows.

Frankly, when they wrote Carter out of command, and wrote in a new Alpha Male Lead for the team and the show, I feel that things needed to 'not work'. We need to see that this type of thing isn't right. That it should *not* be validated. Solid ratings would have validated their decision to write the female out of command. Sadly, I'm glad that they did not get that validation.

Note: if all of the PTB always intended to go with option 2 (above), and never had any intentions of going with option 1, then I am even more deeply disappointed and disgusted.

Great post.
It is very ironic had they simply left Carter in charge I bet (almost because there are some fanatics) no one would have even cared. To the fans that already watched the show it would have made sense. New fans would have gotten used to it. You know why? Because it wouldn't have been all thrown up in their face. There would be no reason for "feminist" speeches or "the woman learning her way" since they already got that out of the way in early season 1. It would have simply been.

By bringing in another brand new character, a charcter written with no freaking qualifications, to come in and take the lead away from her just put this giant flashing becon. By not letting "the woman" be in charge they created the very problem they probably thought would occur if they "left the woman in charge"... no one bought it and abandoned the show.

Of course thats not the only reason they abandoned it but it is this big honking flashing beacon that says "This show is just another scifi cliche, no need to watch". Where as in the past it was "this show is special there is a female character but shes just a person not your typical scifi cliche".

[Jackie]

Jackie, it's not worth hurting yourself over!

Here read a fanfic I wrote, where Cam actually has to face the consequences of his actions...yea I tried to put a little realism into S9 since Coop didn't want any Repercussions

Read, liked, reviewed under pen name: Kody Wright. now I need chocolate even more!

that was perhaps the most galling...yeah, demote the 'little woman' for the lesser qualified male.

i still feel, had she been samuel carter, a man of color, who'd been demoted so that a lesser qualified white male could take his role, they wouldn't have done it. the sensitivities towards racism are there and they wouldn't have done it.

but sexism is so pervasive that people simply don't see it. they think that it's normal for the woman to be submissive to the male.

which fits in with how coop writes women in general. vala as daniel's girlfriend. adria lusting after daniel, both of thier wardrobes, or lack tehreof

his only idea of a story for sam is to give her a boyfriend, who's a total putz...but it's okay honey, i know you meant well when you broke national security. here have a cookie.

coop has done his best to demantle sam and has written/directed vala into a weak, submissive little thing...in unending...

Spoiler:

dude, if daniel tore into me the way he tore into vala, she should have knocked him across the stateroom. but it's ok, she just takes it so that the male can have this 'i was just losing myt emper, let me kiss it better' moment

coop eitehr has or refuses to see that he perpetrates misogyny. he keeps his female characters nice and cliche and submissive.

most of the damage done to sam has been done since s7 and coop took over. and it just got worse after greenburg and anderson left and coop had free rein to do whatever he wanted.

Well, cooper's answer to demoting Sam was, "Look, they're the same rank. Sam's not demoted, just not in charge."

Vala--can't stand season 9 or 10 Vala. Will have to write the character out of character to be in canon with the "real" show.

Sicne I was all out of candy BEFORE I was reminded of Bounty, I was then force, yes FORCED to go buy chocolate covered Little Debbie Peanutbutter crunch bars! See what you have all done to me. I've been turned into a peanutbutter sucking wraith!

[Skydiver]

Well, cooper's answer to demoting Sam was, "Look, they're the same rank. Sam's not demoted, just not in charge."

which shows just how out of touch he is. she went from team leader to team mascot but that's all okay, see the nice hewo is here to take care of things and lead that team cause, you know, the man must lead

[suse]

being the fanboy focus is a hereditary position

oh, and do we want to TOUCH the creepiness of both mother AND daughter lusting over daniel????

Poor Adria, what a legacy to inherit!

Is it any wonder she was driven to kill all those people?

Gross. She also inherited her mother's clothing "style". Poor baby.

Yeah, a child would have been a slightly different take. Though then we'd just be calling her Damienne. Oh, I *did* call her that when spoilers were leaked about the Sprog of Doom, didn't? <sigh>

Instead they went with the notbotheringtoworryaboutchildlaborlaws route and decided to go for tight clothes and cleavage. Not that I blame them for the first part. It would be a bear to work around those laws. Then again, it's not like Adria was around *all* that much...

Meh. Whatever. Which seems to sum the last few years of Stargate Command for me.

suse

suse

[astrogeologist]

I totally agree with you. Janeway was one of the reasons I liked Voyager, but once again, it showed that someday, hundreds of years from now, it will be ok to have a woman in charge. SG-1 had the opportunity to do that into todays setting.

And I feel like a 5-star *idiot* for believing that they were going to do it. I didn't agree with everything that they'd written for Carter over the years. There'd been some good and some bad. Having her evolve and mature into the command position when RDA left, however, would have highlighted the solid portions of her character from throughout the years. It's realistic and proper that characters have some positives and some weak spots. Writing her out of command, however, implied that she wasn't fit for out-and-out leadership of SG-1... in other words, writing her out of command highlighted and reinforced the questionable or weaker moments of her character from previous seasons. Writing her out of command appears to be validation that she wasn't fit for command of SG-1.

And that sucks not only for Sam Carter, the character on SG-1, but it sucks for females in general!

But you know what really insulting, is that they didn't demote her for a more qualified person. In fact they put a far less qualified person in her place. A person who brings zero to the team.

that was perhaps the most galling...yeah, demote the 'little woman' for the lesser qualified male.

i still feel, had she been samuel carter, a man of color, who'd been demoted so that a lesser qualified white male could take his role, they wouldn't have done it. the sensitivities towards racism are there and they wouldn't have done it.

but sexism is so pervasive that people simply don't see it. they think that it's normal for the woman to be submissive to the male.

which fits in with how coop writes women in general. vala as daniel's girlfriend. adria lusting after daniel, both of thier wardrobes, or lack tehreof

his only idea of a story for sam is to give her a boyfriend, who's a total putz...but it's okay honey, i know you meant well when you broke national security. here have a cookie.

coop has done his best to demantle sam and has written/directed vala into a weak, submissive little thing...in unending...

Spoiler:

dude, if daniel tore into me the way he tore into vala, she should have knocked him across the stateroom. but it's ok, she just takes it so that the male can have this 'i was just losing myt emper, let me kiss it better' moment

coop eitehr has or refuses to see that he perpetrates misogyny. he keeps his female characters nice and cliche and submissive.

most of the damage done to sam has been done since s7 and coop took over. and it just got worse after greenburg and anderson left and coop had free rein to do whatever he wanted.

I am saddened when women don't see sexism occuring to them - or others. Even worse is when women join the bandwagon of folks trying to explain it away as something besides sexism.

Great post.
It is very ironic had they simply left Carter in charge I bet (almost because there are some fanatics) no one would have even cared. To the fans that already watched the show it would have made sense. New fans would have gotten used to it. You know why? Because it wouldn't have been all thrown up in their face. There would be no reason for "feminist" speeches or "the woman learning her way" since they already got that out of the way in early season 1. It would have simply been.

By bringing in another brand new character, a charcter written with no freaking qualifications, to come in and take the lead away from her just put this giant flashing becon. By not letting "the woman" be in charge they created the very problem they probably thought would occur if they "left the woman in charge"... no one bought it and abandoned the show.

Of course thats not the only reason they abandoned it but it is this big honking flashing beacon that says "This show is just another scifi cliche, no need to watch". Where as in the past it was "this show is special there is a female character but shes just a person not your typical scifi cliche".

Well, cooper's answer to demoting Sam was, "Look, they're the same rank. Sam's not demoted, just not in charge."

The whole 'What? We didn't do anything.' routine was ridiculous on the part of the Stargate PTB. Even worse was watching some fans buy that load of malarky.

which shows just how out of touch he is. she went from team leader to team mascot but that's all okay, see the nice hewo is here to take care of things and lead that team cause, you know, the man must lead

[Jackie]

Not just Vala and Sam who was mistreated by the writting but Lam too. How many doctors have that cold of a bedside manner? One so cold that DL even had issues with the character.

Sam is either dumbed down or super smart. Nothing continueous in her development. She has a thing for her superior that was never delt properly with. One of the better things they did for Sam was bring in Jacob. He complimented the character well witoh having to drag up some silly boyfriend.

Then, there is Vala. That character has more issues than I can shake a stick at. And those same devolpment issues make Vala much easir to shrug off her mistreatment. Daniel going all ape crap on her in Unending; that would have been delt with far differently if it was Sam he flew off the handle at.

Vala now isn't even the same character they started out with--neither is Daniel for that matter. Vala has gone from smart, obnoxious thief to Dorothy wanna be in pigtails.

TPTB are so out of touch with the female fan base they still think it's fine to mistreat the female characters to make the male leads seem stronger.

I would say in season 9-10 of SG-1 the only male character than gained from the sacrafice of the female characters is "Jackson."

I guess Daniel no longer exist.

[mapsc]

I think RCC's plan was to have a 4 person team consisting of Mitchell, Daniel, Teal'c and Vala by S10. Sam didn't fit the "New Direction". Vala did. That's why S9 was written the way it was, with Sam basically a background character. AT would either be cut loose or moved to SGA as a regular or recurring character for S3. Either in deference to AT's wishes or fear of fan backlash, they backed off. Hence, a 5 person team in S10. Anyway, that's what I think.

Mike

[Skydiver]

i think so too.

I think the plan or hope was that AT wouldn't come back from baby break, or that she would move conveniently to atlantis, thus giving coop the freedom to recreate stargate in his own image...rid of that pesky baggage that always called him on his silliness.

Part of the wallpapering of sam i know was an attempt to give her a reduced schedule, to allow her baby time and to acknowledge that the show was no longer priority one in her life.

but, unlike law and order svu or Numb3rs, two shows that dealt with their main female cast member having a baby, sam was never given the dignity of a real reason to be gone. Olivia had a storyline explaining her absence, so did...oh dianne farr (whatever her character's name is).

sam was just packed off wiht a lame 'oh, she's at area 51' line of dialogue tossed in there likely because someone likley said to coop...umm...you know, when shanks has his 2 episodes off in the second half, he gets a whole story arc, don't you think sam at least deserves a reason to be gone????'

by season 10 i can see that coop was sick of dealing with sam. after all, he can't ship her with anyone, and she's that pesky female, and he can't dress her in bustiers and camisoles, so what good is she????

coop was too obsessed with jackson and his girlfriend and the almighty ori to remmber that he was being paid to make stargate, not some silly space spoof

[jckfan55]

but, unlike law and order svu or Numb3rs, two shows that dealt with their main female cast member having a baby, sam was never given the dignity of a real reason to be gone.

I think an example of nice gals finish last.

They were so preoccupied with how cool to have cleavage chick that they spent no time coming up with a plausible reason for her to be gone.

And then she came back with no explanation either. First of all in Beachhead, as happy as I was to see her back & she did get a kind of nice reveal in Landry's office --"only Samantha Carter could have pulled your a** out of the fire" and there she is-- you can't tell me she had a vital role in that ep. You can't tell me they couldn't have sent someone else with the bomb. And it's not like she got to do anything else vital in the ep.

And then she's just back with no explanation either.

Oh and I recall an interview with BW where he seemed surprised fans were worried that they were writing Sam out after all the Vala hype we got fed while AT was having her baby.

[Zoser]

And I feel like a 5-star *idiot* for believing that they were going to do it. I didn't agree with everything that they'd written for Carter over the years. There'd been some good and some bad. Having her evolve and mature into the command position when RDA left, however, would have highlighted the solid portions of her character from throughout the years. It's realistic and proper that characters have some positives and some weak spots. Writing her out of command, however, implied that she wasn't fit for out-and-out leadership of SG-1... in other words, writing her out of command highlighted and reinforced the questionable or weaker moments of her character from previous seasons. Writing her out of command appears to be validation that she wasn't fit for command of SG-1.

And that sucks not only for Sam Carter, the character on SG-1, but it sucks for females in general!

I am saddened when women don't see sexism occuring to them - or others. Even worse is when women join the bandwagon of folks trying to explain it away as something besides sexism. The whole 'What? We didn't do anything.' routine was ridiculous on the part of the Stargate PTB. Even worse was watching some fans buy that load of malarky.

I saw it as sexist and it ticked me off royally!!!
I saw this bright, strong character as an excellent role model (til Pete - what a bad choice - well we all make bad choices at times but...)

[Zoser]

i think so too.

I think the plan or hope was that AT wouldn't come back from baby break, or that she would move conveniently to atlantis, thus giving coop the freedom to recreate stargate in his own image...rid of that pesky baggage that always called him on his silliness.

Part of the wallpapering of sam i know was an attempt to give her a reduced schedule, to allow her baby time and to acknowledge that the show was no longer priority one in her life.

but, unlike law and order svu or Numb3rs, two shows that dealt with their main female cast member having a baby, sam was never given the dignity of a real reason to be gone. Olivia had a storyline explaining her absence, so did...oh dianne farr (whatever her character's name is).

sam was just packed off wiht a lame 'oh, she's at area 51' line of dialogue tossed in there likely because someone likley said to coop...umm...you know, when shanks has his 2 episodes off in the second half, he gets a whole story arc, don't you think sam at least deserves a reason to be gone????'

by season 10 i can see that coop was sick of dealing with sam. after all, he can't ship her with anyone, and she's that pesky female, and he can't dress her in bustiers and camisoles, so what good is she????

coop was too obsessed with jackson and his girlfriend and the almighty ori to remmber that he was being paid to make stargate, not some silly space spoof

And Elliott had to get used to a new partner then the hard time readjusting to Olivia. All this and it did not interfere with the story but enhanced it.

[Skydiver]

it also gave olivia a bit of an arc that ran throughout the season.

[Rogue]

i think so too.

I think the plan or hope was that AT wouldn't come back from baby break, or that she would move conveniently to atlantis, thus giving coop the freedom to recreate stargate in his own image...rid of that pesky baggage that always called him on his silliness.

Part of the wallpapering of sam i know was an attempt to give her a reduced schedule, to allow her baby time and to acknowledge that the show was no longer priority one in her life.

but, unlike law and order svu or Numb3rs, two shows that dealt with their main female cast member having a baby, sam was never given the dignity of a real reason to be gone. Olivia had a storyline explaining her absence, so did...oh dianne farr (whatever her character's name is).

sam was just packed off wiht a lame 'oh, she's at area 51' line of dialogue tossed in there likely because someone likley said to coop...umm...you know, when shanks has his 2 episodes off in the second half, he gets a whole story arc, don't you think sam at least deserves a reason to be gone????'

by season 10 i can see that coop was sick of dealing with sam. after all, he can't ship her with anyone, and she's that pesky female, and he can't dress her in bustiers and camisoles, so what good is she????

coop was too obsessed with jackson and his girlfriend and the almighty ori to remmber that he was being paid to make stargate, not some silly space spoof

Sam was the only reason I stuck it out as long as I did. If AT didn't come back, I wouldn't have bothered.