S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Gregorius]

Yep. From the end of season 6 to season 10, the SGC became the System Lords.

Not like the System Lords, more like the Ancients in the way they act (If you want me to explain it, please ask and I'll write a follow up explaining this).

[petemoretti]

Not like the System Lords, more like the Ancients in the way they act (If you want me to explain it, please ask and I'll write a follow up explaining this).

Please enlighten us!

[LaCroix]

Not like the System Lords, more like the Ancients in the way they act (If you want me to explain it, please ask and I'll write a follow up explaining this).

No I get it. Maybe a little of both, once they got the tech, they didn't feel the need to share and since

Spoiler:

the death of the Asguard

their using the tatics of the Gou'ald.

[Zoser]

that's what i liked. we were the little humans that could. outthinking adn outsmarting the bad guys...who all depeneded so much on thier tech that it was often a handicap

to me, the earlier seasons were a bit of a tribute to humans and thier intelligence and ingenuity

but now, we're just like hte peopel we used to fight. we depend too much on tech and toys and plot devices and there's really nothing our heroes do that any trained monkey couldn't do

And the bad guys worst flaw was their arrogance. We had to be somewhat humble to realize we were in essence out gunned, we had to be smarter, braver and use small surgical strikes instead of big blundering armadas of expensive ships. Didn't the gov't complain about the electric bill!! (Jack did direct they to accounting!)
So now with our new toys, we are the arrogant ones and soon to be the bully boys of the Milky Way - seeds of our own destruction.

[Skydiver]

Not like the System Lords, more like the Ancients in the way they act (If you want me to explain it, please ask and I'll write a follow up explaining this).

we're the ancients in the fact that we're mucking about in stuff we shouldn't be.

what do we know from atlantis? the ancients liked to experiment on sentient beings. that's where teh cloud creature came from, where the wraith came from. they meddled in civilizations - the game.

they didn't let people just develop as they would, they tried to direct and manipulate that development...and along the way they screwed up MASSIVELY. in fact, have we found ANY ancient experiments that weren't mess ups?

we're out there, telling people how to live, what to do, what to believe. and about the only thing keeping us from being the goa'uld is that we're not knocking aliens over the head and making them work in mines.

humans lost thier honor and integrity when coop took the reins. he turned the sgc into a bunch of grave robbers and scavengers, imposing 'right' and 'wrong' over anyone we want to.

[dipsofjazz]

And the bad guys worst flaw was their arrogance. We had to be somewhat humble to realize we were in essence out gunned, we had to be smarter, braver and use small surgical strikes instead of big blundering armadas of expensive ships. Didn't the gov't complain about the electric bill!! (Jack did direct they to accounting!)
So now with our new toys, we are the arrogant ones and soon to be the bully boys of the Milky Way - seeds of our own destruction.

Yup. Did we not learn anything from the Nox, Asgard and Tollans? Obviously Cooper didn't.

[Gregorius]

Please enlighten us!

The Goa'uld are interested in worship and a public display of power and in order to get that they use whatever means they can think of.

The Ancients on the other hand are more subtile. They come, offer help, technology, knowledge, etc... and ask almost nothing in return, pehaps only the permission to establish a base. It's a nice façade, but in the shadows they do worse things that the Goa'uld. They manipulate the development of worlds, they manipulate entire civilizations, they experiment on sentient beings without even thinking twice and failed experiments are eradicated or sealed away, they commit genocide, they allow entire galaxies to believe that they are Gods, and worst of all the moment they are needed the most they abandon those they made dependent on them. They do this all while claiming the moral high ground and condemning other civilizations who do exactly the same.

Now lets take the SGC. They were the underdog, but suddenly found themselves to be the alpha dog in two galaxies. They experiment on sentient creatures (Wraith), have absolutely no problems using a less advanced civilization as guinea pigs to test new technology, they easily eradicate failed experiments (Wraith humans), they meddle and interfere with less advanced civilization's development, etc... And all the while they claim the moral high ground. The only thing that lacks here is that the SGC has not yet left the other civilizations to fend for themselves.

And another thing the Ancients and the SGC have in common is the illusion they give other civilizations a choice in what to do, like lets say believing in the Ori. Everything is fine until you start thinking for your self and then both Ancients and the SGC immediately are there to tell you that you are wrong and should do what they tell you to do or else they are concequences.

To me this shows that the SGC has more in common with the Ancients than with the Goa'uld because they Goa'uld have at least the excuse of being "born" evil due to their genetic memory while both the Ancients and the SGC have a choice in what they do.

[the dancer of spaz]

Maybe if I revert to a petulant child and join in the plans to embarass the actors at the Comic Con I'll fit in. Nah, not worth it.

I heard about those plans on JM's blog, but I thought it was a small sect of fans off-forum. Lovely.

[Skydiver]

and, according to them, it's a few words that were blown out of proportion

let's wait and see what happens.

i've also discovered that talk is cheap and when people face the reality of acting out, their propriety and common sense often take sway and they change their minds

[the dancer of spaz]

and, according to them, it's a few words that were blown out of proportion

let's wait and see what happens.

I saw that one post of indignant shock... Glad to know it was all a big joke.

And yeah, I'm sure the "hundred-thousand people" aspect will probably play a part in discouraging any heckling.

[astrogeologist]

Just read this a Yahoo forum/list and thought I'd post it here for folks to view ('cuz it's right on topic)

Spoiler:

(RE RCC's latest interviewBut I have to say that
listening to that interview gave me bad vibes about this guy and his
attitude toward the audience.

With regard to the Asgard turning over all their knowledge to humans, he
said the only thing the fans really care about is that now the Odyssey now
has "laser beams," that is, energy weapons.

Regarding the episode "Unending," he said that the fans have always made a
big deal about the importance of the team, and have emphasized how they want
to see the team together, so he decided to give them the team being together
for 50 years!

Now, maybe he meant these comments as jokes, but to me he sounded
patronizing and ungracious. I got the feeling his attitude is to try to
manipulate the audience rather than win them -- that is, us -- by respecting
the creative and emotional integrity of the show. This gives further
support for the things that have been said on this list before, about
Michell and Vala being brought in to draw Farscape viewers rather than for
any reason internal to the creative energy of the show. This is the kind of
"smart business decision" that can end up being extremely stupid, like the
Hollywood moguls who try to put a movie together based on their disdainful
opinion of what the audience wants and end up creating a hugely expensive
box office bomb.

<snip>

The reason I find all this so ironic is that Mr. Cooper also went in to a
long dissertation about why they chose to end the series with "Unending,"
which in effect ended the series without ending it. He used the analogy of
what would have happened if Star Trek had ended by crashing the Starship
Enterprise and killing everyone, and said (I'm paraphrasing) how killing the
characters in the minds of the fans would have killed their interest in
episode repeats and the franchise in general.

Apparently, Mr. Cooper doesn't realize that what he did to SG-1 in Season 9
was like crashing the Starship Enterprise. Though he didn't kill off the
individual characters, he killed the TEAM, which was the heart and soul of
Stargate SG-1. Yes, Richard Dean Anderson left, and there was nothing that
could be done about that, but the spirit of the team, and the relationships
that existed between them, could have been respected so much better than it
was. The two new characters, the failure to put Sam in charge of SG-1, the
failure to respect the "ship" between Sam and Jack that had been established
in earlier seasons, the way that Jack was treated as not just promoted to
Washington but totally gone from everyone's emotional radar -- all that was
just so untrue to the spirit of characters and the relationships between
them. Even if RDA couldn't be on, couldn't they have mentioned Jack from
time to time? Oh, I saw Jack when I was in Washington and he said
such-and-such. And did we have to have the in-your-face insults to Sam/Jack
ship, like the almost-kiss with Martouf in that many-copies episode, or the
failure to so much as mention Jack even once in Unending? - post by LuzL

[Jackie]

Cooper has never struck me as the type who understands what Stargate fans like.

He's trekked to show to the point of no return. I get the feeling he has the impression of a Stargate fan to be, 15 to 40 year old male nerds who all know science and love cool new ships.

Long term Stargate fans are male and female, 15--55 years old who like the realistic appeal to the show. Stargate HAD a unique ablility to cross section a larger audience because it had both sci-fi tech, realistic military, strong characters with mythology embedded in the background.

Now, it's lost the mythology, the strong characters and the realisic military aspect and is solely a cool ship with big bad guys show.

[Zoser]

Just read this a Yahoo forum/list and thought I'd post it here for folks to view ('cuz it's right on topic)

Spoiler:

(RE RCC's latest interviewBut I have to say that
listening to that interview gave me bad vibes about this guy and his
attitude toward the audience.

With regard to the Asgard turning over all their knowledge to humans, he
said the only thing the fans really care about is that now the Odyssey now
has "laser beams," that is, energy weapons.

Regarding the episode "Unending," he said that the fans have always made a
big deal about the importance of the team, and have emphasized how they want
to see the team together, so he decided to give them the team being together
for 50 years!

Now, maybe he meant these comments as jokes, but to me he sounded
patronizing and ungracious. I got the feeling his attitude is to try to
manipulate the audience rather than win them -- that is, us -- by respecting
the creative and emotional integrity of the show. This gives further
support for the things that have been said on this list before, about
Michell and Vala being brought in to draw Farscape viewers rather than for
any reason internal to the creative energy of the show. This is the kind of
"smart business decision" that can end up being extremely stupid, like the
Hollywood moguls who try to put a movie together based on their disdainful
opinion of what the audience wants and end up creating a hugely expensive
box office bomb.

<snip>

The reason I find all this so ironic is that Mr. Cooper also went in to a
long dissertation about why they chose to end the series with "Unending,"
which in effect ended the series without ending it. He used the analogy of
what would have happened if Star Trek had ended by crashing the Starship
Enterprise and killing everyone, and said (I'm paraphrasing) how killing the
characters in the minds of the fans would have killed their interest in
episode repeats and the franchise in general.

Apparently, Mr. Cooper doesn't realize that what he did to SG-1 in Season 9
was like crashing the Starship Enterprise. Though he didn't kill off the
individual characters, he killed the TEAM, which was the heart and soul of
Stargate SG-1. Yes, Richard Dean Anderson left, and there was nothing that
could be done about that, but the spirit of the team, and the relationships
that existed between them, could have been respected so much better than it
was. The two new characters, the failure to put Sam in charge of SG-1, the
failure to respect the "ship" between Sam and Jack that had been established
in earlier seasons, the way that Jack was treated as not just promoted to
Washington but totally gone from everyone's emotional radar -- all that was
just so untrue to the spirit of characters and the relationships between
them. Even if RDA couldn't be on, couldn't they have mentioned Jack from
time to time? Oh, I saw Jack when I was in Washington and he said
such-and-such. And did we have to have the in-your-face insults to Sam/Jack
ship, like the almost-kiss with Martouf in that many-copies episode, or the
failure to so much as mention Jack even once in Unending? - post by LuzL

Couldn't agree more!!

[Zoser]

Cooper has never struck me as the type who understands what Stargate fans like.

He's trekked to show to the point of no return. I get the feeling he has the impression of a Stargate fan to be, 15 to 40 year old male nerds who all know science and love cool new ships.

Long term Stargate fans are male and female, 15--55 years old who like the realistic appeal to the show. Stargate HAD a unique ablility to cross section a larger audience because it had both sci-fi tech, realistic military, strong characters with mythology embedded in the background.

Now, it's lost the mythology, the strong characters and the realisic military aspect and is solely a cool ship with big bad guys show.

And a good dose of religion, politics and ethics!!

[jckfan55]

Just read this a Yahoo forum/list and thought I'd post it here for folks to view ('cuz it's right on topic)

Spoiler:

(RE RCC's latest interviewBut I have to say that
listening to that interview gave me bad vibes about this guy and his
attitude toward the audience.
[spoilerss]
With regard to the Asgard turning over all their knowledge to humans, he
said the only thing the fans really care about is that now the Odyssey now
has "laser beams," that is, energy weapons.

He didn't realize that a lot of people

Spoiler:

loved the Asgard? Not to mention that they (and Thor in particular) were major parts of the show.

Shudder.

[QUOTE] Now, maybe he meant these comments as jokes, but to me he sounded
patronizing and ungracious. I got the feeling his attitude is to try to
manipulate the audience rather than win them -- that is, us -- by respecting
the creative and emotional integrity of the show. [QUOTE]

Patronizing and ungracious. RCC's real middle names.

And did we have to have the in-your-face insults to Sam/Jack
ship, like the almost-kiss with Martouf in that many-copies episode, or

Spoiler:

the
failure to so much as mention Jack even once in Unending? - post by LuzL

To me, as a non-shipper, the first wasn't so much an insult to S/J, but to Sam. It just seemed off to me. And as for the second, shipper or not it was more of the out of sight out of mind of RCC.