S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

there is a lack of uniqueness.

especially now. when rda was in the show, he'd 'hang a lantern' on the sililness of it all. 'does anyone really talk like that' 'i've seen the movie, it hits paris' etc.

but they don't do that now. the characters take the increasing sililness seriously and it just makes us - the random viewer - shake our head and wonder just what they're 'on' that allows them to just accept things like aliens crashing highschool reunions and whole buildings being beamed into space

[ReganX]

but they don't do that now. the characters take the increasing sililness seriously and it just makes us - the random viewer - shake our head and wonder just what they're 'on' that allows them to just accept things like aliens crashing highschool reunions and whole buildings being beamed into space

All of which lends support to the theory that Seasons Nine and Ten are (a) Felger's VR fantasy, (b) a hallucination Mitchell has during the last seconds of his life, (c) a horror story Sam made up for Jack to illustrate why he should stay in command of the SGC or (d) a horror story Jack made up for Sam to illustrate why she cannot, under any circumstances, stop leading SG-1.

[jckfan55]

The thing about cookie cutter characters is that they tend to be a heck of a lot less interesting than the ones with depth.

I liked Daniel in the early seasons, he felt more real then, but ActionJackson irritates and bores me.

I liked him even in the later seasons (pre-Felger's VR dream ) where he got more handy with a gun and wasn't a liability . But he still seemed a bit uncomfortable with guns and promoted diplomacy etc. I think if they wanted to change him so much, they should have given us an explicit reason. Ex) after S8

Spoiler:

After replicarter killed him and he found out the Ancients weren't so special he fell into a depression or even if he simply expressed disillusionment.

He seems angry. I think a conversation with Sam and Teal'c would have been called for. Either Sam or Teal'c call him on his behavior and help him deal or he talks to them about it. You still could have had adventure and the all important ACTION in the episode(s). Remember with Jonas how he had the issue of fitting in and being accepted. They still went on missions, but his issues were addressed. sigh
I miss original Daniel.

[jerkface]

Hello! I've never poked around here before (450 pages-wowza ), but it seems like the episode thread isn't one for discussion, so I thought I'd drop in and complain...er, discuss.

This has probably all been said before, but I still feel a little confused about how both Stargates seem to have gone downhill so quickly. I didn't have much time for TV while S9 and SGA's S2 were on initially, and I watched them on dvd...so I think I'm more charitable about those seasons than I would have been if I'd been waiting a week between lame episodes. And I do think Season 10 (and SGA's 3) have been improvements on their predecessors. But there's not much more I can say in praise of either.

I dunno, S10 just feels, well, Xena-ish? And I liked the pre-Christianity-time-jump Xena, but I wouldn't have believed you a few seasons ago if you'd told me SG-1 was going to borrow its humor from Xena, and forego nearly all its drama.

What's most confusing to me about S10 is how they seem to bend over backwards avoiding any consequences for their characters. The Ori's facelessness does lend itself to this, since we can't have them pop in and explain their motives, but I thought that was what Adria would be for. But them seem intent on whitewashing her as well. She didn't really have a childhood, and most of her ideas seem to have been physically implanted in her brain. So if her personality is something the Ori wrote for her, and nearly all her experiences have been controlled by this written personality/their Priors, is she really culpable for anything? They used Vala's DNA, but how much of a human being is Adria? Is she really a person? Do any of the characters care?

Daniel's become Vala's incurably right sidekick/parent, Sam has become a virtual non-entity, and Cam never was a real character to begin with. Teal'c had one episode, but like SGA's Sateda, it managed to focus on a character without developing him at all. And nine times out of ten they trade Vala's characterization for comic relief. Which would be more excusable if it were, say, funny.

And now it seems like they're ending the Season, and nothing much has happened with either the characters or the main plotline. We've just had a rearranging of main villains, and some jumbled comedy. It seems like the only person with a genuine, developing character arc has been Vala's husband. And he's barely on screen.

Have they forgotten how to write their own show(s)? Are they just busy trying to stay on the air?

I'm more confused than anything. It seems like the writers don't have a sense of themselves, but at the same time, they don't seem to realize (acknowledge?) anything has changed.

[Mandysg1]

Well you certainly found the right place to post that JF (I really don't want to call you a jerk ) A lot of us have been asking and discussing many of those issues, and don't really hold out much hope for the movies or the 3'd series.

Hope you feel at home here

[Jackie]

Hello! I've never poked around here before (450 pages-wowza ), but it seems like the episode thread isn't one for discussion, so I thought I'd drop in and complain...er, discuss.

This has probably all been said before, but I still feel a little confused about how both Stargates seem to have gone downhill so quickly. I didn't have much time for TV while S9 and SGA's S2 were on initially, and I watched them on dvd...so I think I'm more charitable about those seasons than I would have been if I'd been waiting a week between lame episodes. And I do think Season 10 (and SGA's 3) have been improvements on their predecessors. But there's not much more I can say in praise of either.

I dunno, S10 just feels, well, Xena-ish? And I liked the pre-Christianity-time-jump Xena, but I wouldn't have believed you a few seasons ago if you'd told me SG-1 was going to borrow its humor from Xena, and forego nearly all its drama.

What's most confusing to me about S10 is how they seem to bend over backwards avoiding any consequences for their characters. The Ori's facelessness does lend itself to this, since we can't have them pop in and explain their motives, but I thought that was what Adria would be for. But them seem intent on whitewashing her as well. She didn't really have a childhood, and most of her ideas seem to have been physically implanted in her brain. So if her personality is something the Ori wrote for her, and nearly all her experiences have been controlled by this written personality/their Priors, is she really culpable for anything? They used Vala's DNA, but how much of a human being is Adria? Is she really a person? Do any of the characters care?

Daniel's become Vala's incurably right sidekick/parent, Sam has become a virtual non-entity, and Cam never was a real character to begin with. Teal'c had one episode, but like SGA's Sateda, it managed to focus on a character without developing him at all. And nine times out of ten they trade Vala's characterization for comic relief. Which would be more excusable if it were, say, funny.

And now it seems like they're ending the Season, and nothing much has happened with either the characters or the main plotline. We've just had a rearranging of main villains, and some jumbled comedy. It seems like the only person with a genuine, developing character arc has been Vala's husband. And he's barely on screen.

Have they forgotten how to write their own show(s)? Are they just busy trying to stay on the air?

I'm more confused than anything. It seems like the writers don't have a sense of themselves, but at the same time, they don't seem to realize (acknowledge?) anything has changed.

Apparently the show is now a comedy disguised as science fiction instead of a drama with a stargate--at least according to some posters.

[AGateFan]

Apparently the show is now a comedy disguised as science fiction instead of a drama with a stargate--at least according to some posters.

The show always had is comic elements but they were more real before. Before it was well timed comic quips to point out the absurdity of a situation. Now its badly timed comedy all the time creating and adding too the absurdity of the situation.

Before it was a serious show that never took itself too serious. Now it’s a comedy but somehow it seems to take itself way too seriously while piling on the cheese. Odd how the show has become total camp and yet somehow they (TPTB and the characters written by TPTB) suddenly seem to think it is some "serious" and "dark" show that requires high amounts of character deaths so people will care.

I know the universe must be in balance and that everything pendulum that swings left must come back right, what goes up must come down. Yet still I was not expecting the complete and utter collapse of this show especially with the speed from which it turned from AWESOME to TOTAL CRP.

[Skydiver]

Apparently the show is now a comedy disguised as science fiction instead of a drama with a stargate--at least according to some posters.

stargate?????? is that even in the show anymore? cause i think we see more spaceships than we ever do the round spinny thing

Welcome to the 'dark side' JF

[majorsal]

I miss original Daniel.

i miss original daniel too.

just look at that smiley face ( ); look how sweet he looks.

it's totally normal and human to change, especially after all the things daniel's been through. i just can't help seeing more 'michael shanks' in daniel now than daniel.


my feelings/thoughts on the characters now, after seasons 9 and 10 --


* i like mitchell in season 10. i think he's a great improvement, and some of that prob goes to ben browder. i've been able to forget the crazy writing for him in season 9. he's not 'that' mitchell anymore.

* i've always liked landry, but that's prob more because i like beau bridges.

* i'm glad lam is barely around, even though i really feel she could have been a wonderful character.

* i miss the old daniel.

* i miss teal'c being important to the sg1 saga.

* i'm glad more time was given to sam in season 10. but it's not even close to what she used to be given in seasons 1-8.

* i STILL feel vala does not belong on sg1.

* i don't enjoy daniel/vala, whether it be ship or just interacting. i think i'm just tired of them being the focus so much (since season 9).

* i'm not sad (maybe yet) that sg1's last ep is in a few days. for me, it's been 'gone' since season 9.

* i wouldn't mind mitchell being in the third stargate series. but not vala.

i'm going to stop now, so i can eat.





sally

[golfbooy]

For me, personally, one of the saddest things about seasons nine and ten is that I feel that the entire scale upon which the show is written has fallen so dramatically. SG-1's highs are far, far lower in my estimation than those previously reached, and its lows are abysmal. Nowadays it's hard for me to get excited even about the episodes that are supposed to be great and wonderful. Sure, The Shroud was decent, but does anyone really think it measures up against SG-1's greats? Against Changeling? Against 2010?

If SG-1 was still able to hit those high notes, even while the overall quality of the show had dropped off slightly, I'd be more willing to forgive some of the real tragedies that have been put forth. Most of Julius Caesar is pretty rote, too, but that third act is unmitigated genius, sheer brilliance. If SG-1 could still throw in some unmitigated genius every five episodes, I don't think half of us would be complaining.

[gidge_8]

All of which lends support to the theory that Seasons Nine and Ten are (a) Felger's VR fantasy, (b) a hallucination Mitchell has during the last seconds of his life, (c) a horror story Sam made up for Jack to illustrate why he should stay in command of the SGC or (d) a horror story Jack made up for Sam to illustrate why she cannot, under any circumstances, stop leading SG-1.

Oh.... those thoughts just made me feel much better. Thank you!

The show definitely is missing the ol' humor. What made it so successful in the
past was the wittiness - not just from the Jack O'Neill character - it carried over to
all the characters. The jokes are still there, but they fall so flat due to lack of depth.
Glad to see others see it too.

BTW - I did some lurking on the "positives about season 10" thread, just to see what
folks might see that they actually *like*. Not to be personal to any single poster, but the comments really have no details and no depth. Everyone just posts "they love it" but nobody gives a reason why, other than things like "they just started watching because they were Farscape fans". If there's a good, logical argument, I'd be willing to listen, but it's not happening, it seems.

[Jackie]

I think the writers are burned out. They have writing SG-1 for 10 years and out of 3 of those 10 years they wrote SGA along with it.

The problem is there was no checks and balances in place to catch the bad writing. They needed to hire more writers for Atlantis, they only hired one new writer. They essentially doubled their work load. Huge mistake there.

I can't see writing a series for 10 years. I would be burned out by 2 to 3 years.

what the writers needed to do was recognize they were buring out and address it. They didn't do that. Then RDA left and the writers tried to come up with a whole new concept for SG-1 and still write SGA. Both shows suffered as a result.

When I write--I can only do one project at a time. Coming to these boards is my distraction to get my mind off whatever problem I am having in my manuscripts. I have that luxery. I also have the luxery of taking days to write out my climax and I can go back into previous chapters and change things to keep everything on track.

The stargate either don't have a real QC person or the QC is also the main writer.

[Jackie]

BTW - I did some lurking on the "positives about season 10" thread, just to see what
folks might see that they actually *like*. Not to be personal to any single poster, but the comments really have no details and no depth. Everyone just posts "they love it" but nobody gives a reason why, other than things like "they just started watching because they were Farscape fans". If there's a good, logical argument, I'd be willing to listen, but it's not happening, it seems.

tisk, tisk, tisk...no comment.

[AGateFan]

For me, personally, one of the saddest things about seasons nine and ten is that I feel that the entire scale upon which the show is written has fallen so dramatically. SG-1's highs are far, far lower in my estimation than those previously reached, and its lows are abysmal. Nowadays it's hard for me to get excited even about the episodes that are supposed to be great and wonderful. Sure, The Shroud was decent, but does anyone really think it measures up against SG-1's greats? Against Changeling? Against 2010?

If SG-1 was still able to hit those high notes, even while the overall quality of the show had dropped off slightly, I'd be more willing to forgive some of the real tragedies that have been put forth. Most of Julius Caesar is pretty rote, too, but that third act is unmitigated genius, sheer brilliance. If SG-1 could still throw in some unmitigated genius every five episodes, I don't think half of us would be complaining.

Yeah, I guess you could look at S8 for this.
While I found most of the episodes entertaining they were just not up to par to previous seasons...but you throw the Reckonings in there and that was one freaking great season. All can be forgiven if you have mediocre shows and a few awesome shows.

When you have a bunch of average (or way below average IMHO) shows and only a few slightly above average shows it’s much harder to forgive.

Also if a show is awesome it’s easier to suspend belief and overlook errors in cannon when a show is bad or boring I tend to focus on all the mistakes. This is why I can watch a movie like Predator or the Fifth element and think they are awesome but then I watch War of the Worlds and King Kong (both the new ones) and I nitpick them apart and don’t really enjoy them.

[gidge_8]

For me, personally, one of the saddest things about seasons nine and ten is that I feel that the entire scale upon which the show is written has fallen so dramatically. SG-1's highs are far, far lower in my estimation than those previously reached, and its lows are abysmal. Nowadays it's hard for me to get excited even about the episodes that are supposed to be great and wonderful. Sure, The Shroud was decent, but does anyone really think it measures up against SG-1's greats? Against Changeling? Against 2010?

If SG-1 was still able to hit those high notes, even while the overall quality of the show had dropped off slightly, I'd be more willing to forgive some of the real tragedies that have been put forth. Most of Julius Caesar is pretty rote, too, but that third act is unmitigated genius, sheer brilliance. If SG-1 could still throw in some unmitigated genius every five episodes, I don't think half of us would be complaining.

Ah, yes. The moments of brilliance. There's a reason why one buys DVDs. It's because there are just some episodes and ideas are so striking to the imagination that you can't let them go. That's why the original Star Trek, with no budget, cheap sets and a heavy dependence on William Shatner and a lot of clever theatre lighting has so much appeal almost *40 years* later. Something grips you.

My personal favorites, from SG1 are "Point of View", "Changeling" and "1969" where you may be faced with an entirely different look at yourself and your world. Of course, there are countless others that I watch and can really visualize real people in an unreal situation. You can almost picture yourself involved, with a "what would you do?" kind of mentality. Only one episode even came close for me in S9/S10,
"Memento Mori" - and I totally am against Vala as a regular character. I'm still not fond of the character, but this episode had an echo of what I liked in the past. I almost had hope after watching it, but then they killed it with more crappy cookie cutter poo-poo.