S10: Critique & Contemplation

[saberhagen83]

On both counts I will stop watching. In my mind if I don't see it, it didn't happen.

But I have already sworn not to buy S9. S10 depends on the last half. If what you stated happens, it will be a no to S10 and more than likely the movies. As a shipper I am tired of them advertising Sam and Jack then pulling the rug out from under me.

As I have stated before, the only explaination I have for S9 and S10 is that what we are seeing is alternate timeline/universe. Because no way in my SG-1 universe would:
- Jack go to DC to set behind a desk and leave his friends behind
- Sam would give up her command of SG-1
- Put a unexperienced person in charge of SG-1
- Allow a con-artist and thief to join SG-1 and have freedom around the base

Yeah, there has been several things that has put me off, and apparently a lot of other people as well. They could have written adn introduced Mitchell and Vala much better, and having Sam in command of the team. It might have still been good, who knows? I mean a couple of eps now in the 2nd half has actually been pretty well done. I wonder why the writing for both story and characters have taken this long to be decent? Unfortently I don't think they will keep it up.

I too won't bother buying the S9 box. Though I have to admit that I did enjoy "Line in the Sand" and "Road not Taken". Perhaps the best 2 eps in S9 and 10. I never thought about buying S10, but now...I might just pick up the single disc if these 2 are on the one and same, possibly even "The Shroud" if it turns out good. Not sure if they will release 5 or 6 discs in UK? Have no idea how the eps will be placed on them...I'm not sure it's worth buying only liking 4/5 out of 20 eps. Could always hope the entire 2nd half will be decent enough as it has been so far, but eps like "Bounty" just doesn't feel good.

[JessM]

I have a rather provacative question to ask this thread-so i am putting in spoiler space only because anybody who is not really interested would not be subject to the cynical ramblings of this Sagittarian.

Spoiler:

if in the Shroud Jack and Sam act like they don't know each other or aren't in the any scenes together and that Jack, as my cynical little mind is rambling on about, ascends and cannot un-ascend-how many of us will actually continue to watch, download or care? It can be any combination of the 3 thoughts, but I was really wondering fan reaction-especially considering the US won't get these episodes until April, what it will do to the ratings.

okay-done!

Oh, gosh... I have to admit I didn't think much about that myself...

Spoiler:

especially the "Jack ascends and cannot un-ascend" part. I think that would be the stupidest, most nonsensical thing ever and I don't see myself buying any of the dvd's... probably not watching the rest of the season either (not that Vaniel itself makes it easy for me to watch...).

[JessM]

As for the possible Vaniel scene:

Spoiler:

It is more than likely it will only be Vala in the infirmary scene, in LITS it was only Cam visiting Sam. I don't think the writers can write more than 2 members of SG1 in the same scene

I agree... shame, isn't it?

It might be Jack.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but I'd love it to be Jack as well...

Spoiler:

It would make more sense, esp. if Jack has a decent role in getting Daniel to change back (unless they make Vala the one who gets Daniel to renounce his evil ways *snerk* and bring him back to their side, which seems more than likely and thus the Vaniel scene would make some sense...I wouldn't like it but I guess it still would). I think it made sense for Cam to be in the infirmary with Sam in LITS since he was with her when she was critically injured, gave her the shots, she told him about the letters, etc.

[JessM]

As far as the shroud goes--I am holding judgment till I see it.

More power to you, Jackie. I've tried to be that way much of this season myself. I'd heard the cringe-worthy spoilers for about a year now for S10, part of me thought "why even bother watching it? I'll do something more constructive Friday nights at 9", but I really tried to adopt a more wait-and-see attitude. I think my problem is that I usually prepare myself for the worst so that if something good happens or it's not as bad as I thought, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

On one addional note: I haven't see SGA's sunday yet.

Spoiler:

However, they could be more creative in figuring out a way for Carson to die. An exploding tumor? It wasn't even in his own body! That's just stupid!

Spoiler:

That was beyond stupid. Darwin Awards stupid (not that it was Carson's fault or anything).

[RealmOfX]

Yeah, there has been several things that has put me off, and apparently a lot of other people as well. They could have written adn introduced Mitchell and Vala much better, and having Sam in command of the team. It might have still been good, who knows? I mean a couple of eps now in the 2nd half has actually been pretty well done. I wonder why the writing for both story and characters have taken this long to be decent? Unfortently I don't think they will keep it up.

I too won't bother buying the S9 box. Though I have to admit that I did enjoy "Line in the Sand" and "Road not Taken". Perhaps the best 2 eps in S9 and 10. I never thought about buying S10, but now...I might just pick up the single disc if these 2 are on the one and same, possibly even "The Shroud" if it turns out good. Not sure if they will release 5 or 6 discs in UK? Have no idea how the eps will be placed on them...I'm not sure it's worth buying only liking 4/5 out of 20 eps. Could always hope the entire 2nd half will be decent enough as it has been so far, but eps like "Bounty" just doesn't feel good.

Uh oh, Bounty! I had forgotten about that potential stinker (see I'm quite good at blocking out stuff)

But no worries, I'm on a bit of a high with having 2 eps in a row that I would happily rewatch (and the one before that was much better than the first episode of the 2 parter). Oh wow, see the depths to which I have sunk
Two episodes in a sea of poorly constructed junk and mediocrity and I get all giddy

Maybe it is because I was fairly sure AM would pull his usual stunt (for me) of having a pretty interesting concept but have so much OOC and plotholes that you can't help but groan. Once again Kudos to the man for delivering 2 solid eps. Well I'm back on a high again, hopefully next ep will be as good if not better as well.

OK so I'm an optimistic cynic

[Jackie]

More power to you, Jackie. I've tried to be that way much of this season myself. I'd heard the cringe-worthy spoilers for about a year now for S10, part of me thought "why even bother watching it? I'll do something more constructive Friday nights at 9", but I really tried to adopt a more wait-and-see attitude. I think my problem is that I usually prepare myself for the worst so that if something good happens or it's not as bad as I thought, I'd be pleasantly surprised.

I'm hoping that by the time I actually get to see these eps, (april) I would have forgotten just how bad people said they were. Or I will be so prepared for dumbed down eps that when a good one shows its shiny head I am surprised.

Either way--I have no choice but to wait and wait and wait just to see!

[JessM]

Very true.

[Jackie]

I was just watching the episode where Teal'c was brainwashed into thinking he still served apothis.

This episode just confirmed everything we were discussing about the lack of Teal'c. It deleved into his heart and soul. Regressed into his past so you could see the hard life teal'c had and his realization that Apothis was a false god. There was so much more they could have done with him. Shame they just had stand there like a hat rack.

They never took the time to dive into Vala's past in the series. Atleast, not with any real depth to it. There would have been the perfect oppertunity to show Vala as a host and about how she felt about being a host. They could have had flashbacks of Vala doing things as Quetesh and then her reconciling with the past.

Totally blew that one!

[JessM]

Very good point. I think they had an opportunity to do that in Memento Mori, but they just totally wasted it... a real shame.

I know it was also mentioned in The Powers that Be, but it was just a very brief blip. It could have been expanded upon in MM but they didn't choose to do that.

It also would have been nice to see her and Sam talking about this, as being a former host herself, they have something in common. But I guess Daniel is the only person Vala is really allowed to bond with.

[keshou]

Given that this is the Anti Season 10 thread, and that I personally found the last two episodes to be good, is Stargate getting back on form?

While they haven't been screened yet, the next two episodes have also piqued my interest and sound (hopefully) like good episodes too. Is anyone else finding their interest in the show renewed? Or have they left it too little too late?

I'll take a stab at this. I'm more ambivalent than "anti" but I've certainly had my cringing "anti" moments in both S9 and S10.

Out of the first half of S10 I enjoyed "Pegasus Project" the most. Quest I was far more entertaining than "The Fourth Horseman I" in S9 but hardly an epic. I've now seen Quest II, LITS and Road Not Taken from the second half of S10. I actually liked all of them. And I liked all the characters roles in them - including Daniel, Sam, Cam, Vala, etc. Except Adria - who is still lacking something for me.
I enjoy Daniel/Vala's interaction when the characters have more serious moments and are not spouting sillly one-liners at each other. I'm still scarred from the "let's make babies!" line and the cat fight in PU but thankfully my memory is growing hazy at my age.

It's not "classic" SG-1 but at least I'm seeing some semblance of the "team as family" thing again. And the stories have been much more interesting to me in the second half (so far). I actually think losing Daniel for a couple of episodes allows us to see the team reacting to that and we've seen some interesting interactions between the other characters. I really liked Vala/Cam together in Quest II. Vala and Sam I still find a little odd at times but I can see both actresses working to develop their interaction and make it more interesting. And at least they've gotten Vala out of those silly pigtails...... Sam/Cam have had some really nice moments - most noticeably in LITS.

I'm looking forward to "Shroud" next. And maybe a couple of other episodes in the last half.

So are they back on form? Well, I wouldn't say that.

*I'm probably never going to find the whole Ori arc that interesting - although it improves greatly when you get Tomin in the picture and concentrate on his personal conflicts in his role as part of the Ori army. Adria *should* add a personal face to the Ori but I haven't seen it as very effective so far. I always thought Morena was the weakest actor on Firefly and she hasn't shown me much in the role of Adria either. The Arthurian trappings still seem hokey although i admit to enjoying some of the stuff in Quest II (with the exception of that lame dragon).

* I think they made a really big error in the way they handled Cam as the new leader of SG1 and didn't plan anything meaty for Sam's time off or her reintroduction to the team. It's all been swept under the rug in S10 - and greatly improved interaction between Sam and Cam has helped in this last half of the season. But it could have been done so much better.

* Most importantly, the scripts are still not as intelligent, as tight and well-paced as SG-1 used to be in its heyday. But for me - i've seen that lack since about S5 on.

So greatly improved and it does feel like it's starting to gel a little bit, but probably too little too late for a lot of people I suspect. I'll watch to the bitter end though.....

[JessM]

I have to admit that I did find the past two eps (LITS and TRNT) a bit better, and I think it mostly has to do with the team dynamic being shown more, at least in LITS (as well as Quest Part 1). Sadly I can't help thinking that "teamness" this season is more the exception than the rule. As someone who used to be a huge Daniel fan (and still likes him but nowhere near as much these past two seasons), I think a lot of it has to do with whether he's around or not, with some tiny exceptions.

Most of the time when Daniel's around, the team is fragmented into Vaniel, Cam and Teal'c, and then Sam off on her own. The only exception there was The Quest Part 1. I actually like Vala better when he isn't around. I've liked seeing her interact with the other characters as well, but it's a shame that she only gets to do it when he's absent or somehow "indisposed" (as in the case of Quest Part II where we had Cam and Vala interaction as well).

As for the pigtails, it's good to see her get rid of them as well. I've been noticing a funny trend, though... she doesn't seem to have them whenever Daniel isn't around... Uninvited, Line in the Sand, Road Not Taken... and then when Daniel is back she goes back to the pigtails. I wonder if it has something to do with her being more childish and annoying whenever he's around?

I wouldn't quite say they're back on form either, at least IMHO. For them to be near "back on form" for me, we'd have to see actual, decent interaction between the Big 3 - Daniel, Sam, and Teal'c. I know some like the D/V interaction but it fragments the team IMHO and I find it so unrealistic that three people, who've been friends for just about ten years now, would take to ignoring each other so readily (and most of the ignoring is on Daniel's part...which I'd also find unrealistic but then again he's been almost a totally different character these past 2 seasons).

[Jackie]

Intresting commet about the pigtails. I wonder if that is a secret thing between Shanks and Black or if it's a thing for the fans.

I cannot stand the pigtails. They don't do a thing for CB.

It's a shame that the writers and directors cannot make Vala stand on her own when Daniel is there. I don't know why people think the interaction of Vaniel is cute or sexy. It just turns my stomach.

Vaniel would only be cute if CB and MS were five years old. Then you can send them to thier corners till they behave.

Over all I like the Daniel that was presented in the first 5 seasons much better than surrent Danny. Sometimes I had wished they had hired Spader for the role. I doubt it Daniel would have changed so much if Spader had done the roll for ten years.

When I write Daniel in fics I take Spader's version and shorten his hair. It's the only whay I can really write Danny. He was my favortie character too. But not has much anymore.

I wish they gave Mitchell more personality. I have always like BB as an actor.

I'm thinking about doing a fic where BB is Mitchell and he is trying to get assigned to SG-1. (Sam never left and Jack still runs the SGC) I thought it would have been far more intresting if Sam had this love sick puppy following her around and Jack had a problem with it.

I'm not a huge S/J shipper either. Personaly I think Sam is strong enough she doesn't need a ship. Of course if Sam were to meet a younger indianan jones i think that would be an intresting mix. Indy from the 40's when women stayed home. Oh, how the words would fly.

[AGateFan]

Considering the women Indy seems to like I dont think he would have any issues with an independant Carter at all. I dunno if an Indy\Carter relationship would work, but if he was on the show it sure would give the MS slashers something to do.

[Jackie]

Considering the women Indy seems to like I dont think he would have any issues with an independant Carter at all. I dunno if an Indy\Carter relationship would work, but if he was on the show it sure would give the MS slashers something to do.

OMG

They would have the Daniel/indy/Jack thread. 3 way slash.

Indy/Daniel slash thread. (poor harrison ford)

I can see the lines now:

Daniel: Indy

Indy: Daniel

Jack lifts eyebrows: What about me?

[keshou]

*snip*
Over all I like the Daniel that was presented in the first 5 seasons much better than surrent Danny. Sometimes I had wished they had hired Spader for the role. I doubt it Daniel would have changed so much if Spader had done the roll for ten years.
*snip*

LOL, I always had the impression Spader barely acknowledged the movie/role on his resume. so not so sure how that would have worked out for you.

I actually like ALL the characters better in the first 5 seasons than their current incarnations. But I still like them and am attached to them - probably the reason I'm still watching SG-1. I think Atlantis has a better storyline but I'm just not as attached to the characters. It will be interesting to see if that changes in S4 with M&M taking over and Sam becoming part of the mix.

I go back and forth on Daniel. I don't mind Daniel being less willing to "talk it out" with every alien he meets as long as it fits the natural evolution of the character. I've always had the suspicion that after Pierre made fun of Daniel "talking to the aliens" on late night TV, they (MS?) wanted to make Daniel more of an action character and sometimes it works (depending on the episode) and sometime it doesn't. And he's always been sarcastic and snarky - it just seemed more natural in the bantering with Jack than in some of the sexual innuendo-laced banter with Vala.

I *do* mind when he loses the compassion, the curiosity, the passion and drive that kind of defines Daniel for me. Daniel annoyed me to death in that - what was the name of the episode right before Quest I? Can't remember, anyway the one where Daniel and Vala wave at the guy who just got spaced. I mean I really disliked him in that episode. But in Quest II I think he was very much the Daniel that I like. (except for the over-the-top fight with Adria, but those kind of bits are always silly).

Heck, Jack became much too silly and glib in his last few seasons for me. But I still liked him. ( *all is forgiven, Jack, please come back!*)

I became annoyed to death with Sam and her love life in S7/S8. She actually became kind of wishy-washy to me. Kickbut Sam - wishywashy. Egads, I don't care if they get her together with Jack or not at this point - just don't drag it out another 10 years! But otherwise I think Sam has been right back on top of things in S10 - really liked her in Quest II, LITS and TRNT.

Teal'c - well hard to complain about his development since he hardly gets any! But I miss the bald head, I admit. And I don't really buy it when he smiles too much or he's arm-wrestling or playing basketball with Vala.

Cam? Well, I like him much better in S10 - pretty forgettable in S9. And of all the actors on the show I think that BB is my favorite as far as just reading his interviews and liking the guy. I *loved* him in TRNT.

Well, this isn't a very "anti" post so I better add some "anti" stuff. What's up for the rest of S10? I'm looking forward to Shroud but I also think it has the potential to be a really *bad* episode. We'll see. Bounty sounds like crappola. And then there's several mediocre-sounding episodes leading up to "Dominion" and "Unending". I expect Dominion to have lots of explosions - just hope they don't forget a good story to go along with it. And I'm probably one of the few people looking forward to "Unending". I like character-driven bottle episodes.