S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Mandysg1]

Yeah it does.

But you’ve got to admit it can be rather amusing to gawk at time.

Though as vocal as Daniel’s fans can be at times they never took the prize home from me. The Shippers that want AT and RDA to get married in RL. Scare me more than even the most insane Daniel fans. (But not by much.)

Oh, I find all fans that go OTT to be quite frightening, I do feel for the actors who have to put up with them.

[JessM]

Nice to know I’m not the only one.

And you’re not alone Jess. I like the reluctant hero from earlier seasons too. I have no problem with Daniel being able to use a gun, or being able to take care of himself (in his line of business it made sense he’d learn that stuff). I miss the scientist. I miss the man that was a reluctant hero. I miss the Daniel that always believed that violence should be the absolute last alternative and was never afraid to make a few waves voicing that opinion- Even to his best friend. I’ve been shaking my head the last couple of seasons wondering where the h*ll he went.

It's good to know I'm not alone. I've been wondering if Daniel has been taken over by a pod person - or maybe this is some odd AU replacement. His attitude has been grating on my nerves a bit as well. Daniel has always had a sarcastic streak in him and could be snarky when he wanted to be, but it's been a bit too OTT for me the past couple of years. A lot of the fanfiction I write takes place during earlier seasons because I can't really bring myself to write Daniel as he is now... no matter how ridiculous it may seem.

How? How has Vala made Daniel a deeper, richer character? I haven’t seen it. For me she tends to bring out that side of Daniel I dislike immensely.

I’m another Jack/Daniel fan that loves Sam. I really love Sam when she and Jack exchange that ‘we’re about to blow sh*t up and Daniel is NOT going to be happy with us” look. It was a look that Jack and T exchanged a couple of times too.

I haven't seen it either. I'm guessing some of these people thought Daniel was too "weak" or "submissive" and Vala makes him more aggressive or something like that. Whatever it is, I view it negatively and it's made me start losing respect for him.

I know what you mean - I enjoyed those exchanges too.

[JessM]

Amen! One reason why this Daniel fan screamed NNOOOO! At any hint of Daniel/Vala ship. Did these same Daniel fans actually see what the writers did to both Sam and Jack trying to ‘do’ ship?

Vala’s been butchered with their let’s keep her connected at the hip to Daniel. Vaniel makes them lazy in my humble opinion. Why try to build Vala as a valid character of her own? Daniel likes her and so the fans should take Daniel’s word for it (despite his lousy track record) and like her despite no character development.

Daniel’s not doing much better. He’s suddenly done a 180 on just about everything he believed in the last couple of seasons. He’s not even the same character anymore. I think Sky stated it best they’ve pretty much deduced a once lively colorful character to generic boring ‘2nd string cliché action guy’.

Yep - the whole Vaniel thing is being done at the expense of both characters. Vala could be fleshed out more and have more depth if she was allowed to interact with the other characters and not be permanently attached to Daniel's hip. It does seem like an easy way out for the writers. Maybe they don't want to bother with developing her further through her interactions with the rest of the team. Having her be half of Vaniel is good enough.

It's hurt Daniel's character as well, IMO. I think he's let Vala get away with too much and if she'd been introduced years earlier, I think things could be much different. Yeah, Sky summed it up best - he's now a boring 2nd string action hero type. Shame.

[JessM]

I thought that Sam was saying that she wished she had told Daniel how she admired him earlier.

Right, that's how I viewed it as well. But there were a few people who thought it meant something else and were angry about it.

Why would Daniel play a key role in stories involving the NID? He has no major connection with them and, with his background, Jack is the most logical choice for any undercover missions.

Were RDA, AT and CJ complaining that they didn't have much to do where the Sha're/Shifu storyline was concerned?

No character will be front and center every single episode, and play the chief role in every single storyline. What's more important - the number of minutes of screentime Daniel has or that the stories are told as well as possible, utilizing the best characters for the job. For example, it would make little sense if Daniel was to be the focus of a Tok'ra-heavy episode, not when Sam has a connection to them through Jolinar and through her father but it would be equally illogical for an episode about Sha're/Shifu/Abydos to center around Sam.

Exactly, and that is what I liked about the early seasons. There wasn't a glut of character-centered episodes. Sure, there were several now and then, but not every single episode. I think what I've heard is that MS thought there were too many NID stories, or that the show was heading too much in that direction and it wasn't giving Daniel very much to do. *shrugs*

I thought that the other characters' reactions to Daniel's death made sense. Sam was grieving openly, Teal'c was grieving privately and Jack was trying to avoid grieving altogether, in part because he knew that Daniel, while gone, wasn't really dead.

Jonas wasn't welcomed onto the team with open arms, far from it. He had been on the base three months at the beginning of Season Six and Jack seemed to barely acknowledge his existence. He accepted Jonas on the team because the alternative was a Russian officer. It took time for Jonas to find his niche in the group and for them to grow as friends. I liked that.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would have hated it if SG-1 had spent the Season Five finale and the first four or five episodes of Season Six hanging around the base moping, refusing to even think about having somebody else take the fourth spot, the place sacred to Daniel, on SG-1, weeping and wailing every time they saw something that reminded them of him.

I agree. I think it would be wrong if they spent two seconds in one episode grieving for him and then suddenly straightened up and went on a mission, but that wasn't what happened. It would have been too much if they spent, like you said, the finale AND the first 5 or 6 episodes of the next season moping. I thought it was handled pretty well.

And I did like how Jonas was introduced. Pity that Vala wasn't introduced gradually like he was.

[Mandysg1]

Yep - the whole Vaniel thing is being done at the expense of both characters. Vala could be fleshed out more and have more depth if she was allowed to interact with the other characters and not be permanently attached to Daniel's hip. It does seem like an easy way out for the writers. Maybe they don't want to bother with developing her further through her interactions with the rest of the team. Having her be half of Vaniel is good enough.

It's hurt Daniel's character as well, IMO. I think he's let Vala get away with too much and if she'd been introduced years earlier, I think things could be much different. Yeah, Sky summed it up best - he's now a boring 2nd string action hero type. Shame.

Oh what gets me (and makes me want to gag) is when they stick words in Daniel's mouth, comparing Vala to Teal'c and how they are the 'same' and she should be trusted....yea right Only if everyone's had lobotomies

[JessM]

I HATE when people compare women's looks. For one thing, it's such a subjective thing, attractiveness. No doubt, both actresses are very attractive women, but they are very, very different in coloring, build, even the way they sound. And it's completely inconsequential. We're not talking America's Top Model here so looks shouldn't be the issue.

This is American TV--everyone is good looking, for one thing. Unfortunately, I've read catty, nasty things about Claudia too. I remember at the Saturn Awards for 2005, I think, she actually mentioned some of the nasty things she had read about herself and said "you guys are MEAN!" with a bit of a laugh and a self-deprecating remark, so the catty/nastiness gets sent out to both actresses.

Which is too damned bad.

You think Shanks and Browder get this kind of treatment? Not bloody likely, at least not when it comes to the looks department.

I agree. It shouldn't be an issue. I've heard some catty things about Claudia's looks too, which is a real shame.

I haven't heard anything about Browder getting treatment like this. Some years ago (maybe 5?) I was at a site where a few people were saying a few things about Shanks. From what I remember they were RDA fans and one person in particular kept talking about how Shanks has a "big head" - and not in terms of ego, in terms of morphology.

But even those comments were few and far between as compared to the ones the women are getting.

[JessM]

AT is on the cover and has interviews in the recent Stargate SG-1/Atlantis magazine.

Thanks for the tip. I didn't get the last issue of the magazine because I wasn't very interested in the MS and CB interviews. But if AT has some interviews I think I'll go looking for that one.

It is sad but I have seen some of the nasty comments that are made about the Sam character of late and many direct them Straight at AT personally.
People are odd. I don't understand it and really think they should think before they write. Oh, well can't stop them.

Exactly. Seems that people don't know when they've taken something too far. But there is nothing we can really do I suppose...

[JessM]

That and these tactics never work. They either cause an author to stick to their preferred paring or cause authors to say screw it and leave the fandom.

I tend to see these tactics more tactics of desperation more than anything else. It goes to show despite a few rapid fans Daniel and Vala really haven’t hit a cord with the main stream fan fiction writers or fan. Cruise the general archives and Jack/Daniel is still the most popular slash pairing being posted and Sam/Jack the most popular ship.

One of my friends got so disgusted she pretty much did leave the fandom and now only writes original fiction. If I had someone bugging me about that it would cause me to write even more stories for my pairing. I'm not going to let someone stop me from doing what I enjoy. I understand though if someone is continually harassed and gets tired of it.

It does seem to be more about desperation. I woudn't doubt it has something to do with the series ending. Maybe they think that, if there are oodles and oodles of D/V stories out there, tptb will take notice and think that maybe everyone just LOVES the pairing, so they'd better make a nice Vaniel resolution to end the show. Have Daniel and Vala go traipsing off to another planet to get married or go on their honeymoon.

I don't know what goes on in their heads, but I wouldn't doubt that some of them are looking for that.

[Mandysg1]

Exactly. Seems that people don't know when they've taken something too far. But there is nothing we can really do I suppose...

That's why it's good to have Mod's, to try and keep these things off the site. Unfortuneatley, not all sites have mods that do a fair job, I mean even if you don't like the character, you should still try and reing in the things said about the actors

I'm just glad GW's mods do a good job

[JessM]

Oh what gets me (and makes me want to gag) is when they stick words in Daniel's mouth, comparing Vala to Teal'c and how they are the 'same' and she should be trusted....yea right Only if everyone's had lobotomies

That lends more credence to my pod people theory. I couldn't believe it when he said that. Direct comparison? I don't think so... it seemed a bit desperate to me and seemed like tptb wanted all the viewers to accept her in a real hurry.

[JessM]

That's why it's good to have Mod's, to try and keep these things off the site. Unfortuneatley, not all sites have mods that do a fair job, I mean even if you don't like the character, you should still try and reing in the things said about the actors

I'm just glad GW's mods do a good job

Same here. *applauds the mods* I used to read the Usenet newsgroup mostly for info on upcoming shows, actor appearances, episode reviews, etc. It was of course unmoderated and was one of the places with the ridiculous comments about the actors, as well as a lot of very OT discussion.

This place is a lot better... wish I'd discovered it sooner.

[Rogue]

That lends more credence to my pod people theory. I couldn't believe it when he said that. Direct comparison? I don't think so... it seemed a bit desperate to me and seemed like tptb wanted all the viewers to accept her in a real hurry.

They used the same tactic with Jack and Cam. Remember the handing off the baton scene in the fighter. Jack stamped his approval on Cam so Cam must be ok.

[Mandysg1]

They used the same tactic with Jack and Cam. Remember the handing off the baton scene in the fighter. Jack stamped his approval on Cam so Cam must be ok.

Oh yea, and that was soooo believable too

*where's that sick smilie when I need it*

[Skydiver]

You're right about Jonas. They didn't instantly put him on the team in that ep. I guess a lot of the Daniel fans came to that conclusion because they were just so angry about Jonas replacing him. I know the friend who helped get me into the show despised Jonas with a passion and I could not understand why at the time. I didn't hate his character. I wasn't happy that Daniel was gone and I was glad that he returned in S7 but I liked Jonas too.

i witnessed, back when teh first spoilers for fallout came out, some, and it stress this, SOME daniel fans get up in arms and have a hissy fit because it wa spoiled that dr kieran was a father figure to jonas after his parents were killed

they were upset because, to them, daniel was an orphan therefore for anyone else to be an orphan, it was stealing that trait from daniel

when i pointed out that

we know nothing of jack's family
sam's mom is dead
teal'c's dad was murdered, we know nothing of his mother

and that being an orphan was hardly a daniel only trait i was called all sorts of names

they see and interpret what they want to see adn interpret

[Skydiver]

Though as vocal as Daniel’s fans can be at times they never took the prize home from me. The Shippers that want AT and RDA to get married in RL. Scare me more than even the most insane Daniel fans. (But not by much.)

they don't scare me as much, simply because i do hang with them but also...shippers are a lazy bunch. they whine adn moan amongst themselves but rarely take their complaints to the loud and public level that SOME of the ardent daniel fans do